[Flightgear-devel] When can we have roads like this
http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=147&topic_id=172700&mode=full Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-users] OT: Another FGFS PPL :-D
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:36:15 +, Matthew Law <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > After 18 months and 49 hours flying I finally passed my PPL skills test > today. Wow -- congrats! Have you decided on your first post-PPL cross-country yet? Let us know in advance, and perhaps some of us will try it in FlightGear as well. All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Cloud Rendering
Curtis L. Olson writes: > > Paul Kahler wrote: > > > Melchior FRANZ wrote: > > > >> * Paul Kahler -- Sunday 14 November 2004 15:57: > >> > >>> It's just an integration problem right? ;-) > >> > >> > >> No. A problem of fixing his code that is in SimGear already. Your are > >> hereby invited to submit patches. :-} > > > > > > I just knew my message would result in my nomination to do the job :-) > > I suggested it to the list because I don't have time for such a big > > job. I might have time to make improvements though if it's already > > working to some extent. After I get my new PC (before year end) I may > > just start poking around in the code. Don't hold your breath though, > > if someone else wants to look at it, don't wait for me. > > The current state of things is a lot of bandaids, bubble gum, duct tape, > and wishful thinking to try to get them to sort of work together ... or > at least try to keep the 3d cloud code from stepping on the FlightGear > rendering code too hard. It really isn't all that bad, after all the code is all isolated in one place and therefore the *expensive* state switching code is only done once per frame. IMO The biggest problem is that none of us have takem the time to really understand Mark's scenegraph and since there is no pbuffer support in PLIB it is rather difficult to translate into a native FGFS style. Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Cloud Rendering
Paul Kahler wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Paul Kahler -- Sunday 14 November 2004 15:57: It's just an integration problem right? ;-) No. A problem of fixing his code that is in SimGear already. Your are hereby invited to submit patches. :-} I just knew my message would result in my nomination to do the job :-) I suggested it to the list because I don't have time for such a big job. I might have time to make improvements though if it's already working to some extent. After I get my new PC (before year end) I may just start poking around in the code. Don't hold your breath though, if someone else wants to look at it, don't wait for me. The 3d cloud code really needs to be rewritten entirely to work properly with FlightGear. Mark's original clouds were implimented in his own custom scene graph library which does not play nice with FG's scene graph library. Generally, no two scene graph libraries will ever play nice together because of something called lazy state evaluation. Changing state in opengl (i.e. switching textures, changing render parameters, etc.) can be expensive for a variety of reasons, also querying the opengl card for the current state of things to check if something is set or not can also be expensive ... so scene graph libraries like to keep track of all the opengl state themselves, and only send changes to the card when something actually needs to get changed. This is usually great for efficiency, but if you have two independent systems trying to track and make changes concurrently, you end up with a big mess ... kind of like two people trying to drive the same car at the same time to completely different destinations ... you end up with a big mess, if not an all out fist fight ... at best, you don't end up anywhere near you wanted to go. The current state of things is a lot of bandaids, bubble gum, duct tape, and wishful thinking to try to get them to sort of work together ... or at least try to keep the 3d cloud code from stepping on the FlightGear rendering code too hard. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: Another FGFS PPL :-D
Matthew Law wrote: After 18 months and 49 hours flying I finally passed my PPL skills test today. I can quite confidently say that I would never have tried flying at all if it wasn't for the adventures of David M and a few other people on these lists. I'd also like to say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to FGFS. It has without a doubt saved me lots of lessons and allowed me to run through some things I found difficult until I nailed them. IMHO FGFS is the best 'fly it like it is' simulator around. All the best, Matthew. I thought 18mo.49h would be enough for a commercial ticket! Oh! I see. 49h flight time took you 18mo. :) Congratulations & fly safe! Dale ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Cloud Rendering
* Paul Kahler -- Sunday 14 November 2004 16:58: > I just knew my message would result in my nomination to do the job :-) Hehe ... > I suggested it to the list because I don't have time for such a big job. > I might have time to make improvements though if it's already working to > some extent. Same here. I would certainly try to fix problems as I run into them, but there are some bigger "issues" to solve first, starting with xml-ifying the ugly binary cloud resource files, or the plib integration that John & Erik mentioned. Well, and the 2d clouds aren't bad either. :-) m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Cloud Rendering
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Paul Kahler -- Sunday 14 November 2004 15:57: It's just an integration problem right? ;-) No. A problem of fixing his code that is in SimGear already. Your are hereby invited to submit patches. :-} I just knew my message would result in my nomination to do the job :-) I suggested it to the list because I don't have time for such a big job. I might have time to make improvements though if it's already working to some extent. After I get my new PC (before year end) I may just start poking around in the code. Don't hold your breath though, if someone else wants to look at it, don't wait for me. Thanks, Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cloud Rendering
Paul Kahler wrote: Has anyone looked into better cloud rendering in FGFS? There was some great work done by Mark Harris for his Ph.D. over at: http://www.markmark.net/ I couldn't remember his name, so I googled for 'cloud rendering' and his site was at the top of the list. It looks really impressive, and similar to something I saw in a Game Developer article by a MSFS guy. Mark provides source code under a "free license". If that's not GPL compatible enough, perhaps someone could work out something with him for FGFS? It's just an integration problem right? ;-) Sort of... I cobbled a version for FG (with the help of Mark and Curtis) as a demo. It needs a bit of work .. ;-) See the clouds3d directory in SimGear. Mark's thesis and approach needs to be extracted and rebuilt into the FG scene graph structure. Rather than trying to patch what is there, it might be more appropriate to rework the entire cloud subsystem using Mark's algorithms. You can view the clouds by compiling in the FG code ( FG_USING_CLOUDS_3D ) and then --enable-clouds3d as an fgfs option Regards John W. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Cloud Rendering
* Paul Kahler -- Sunday 14 November 2004 15:57: > Has anyone looked into better cloud rendering in FGFS? > There was some great work done by Mark Harris for his > Ph.D. over at: http://www.markmark.net/ I couldn't > remember his name, so I googled for 'cloud rendering' > and his site was at the top of the list. It looks > really impressive, and similar to something I saw in > a Game Developer article by a MSFS guy. OK, let's see ... $ grep -E "Mark.*Harris" SimGear/simgear/scene/sky/clouds3d/*|wc -l 38 Hint: $ fgfs --enable-clouds3d > It's just an integration problem right? ;-) No. A problem of fixing his code that is in SimGear already. Your are hereby invited to submit patches. :-} m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cloud Rendering
Paul Kahler wrote: Has anyone looked into better cloud rendering in FGFS? There was some great work done by Mark Harris for his Ph.D. over at: http://www.markmark.net/ I couldn't remember his name, so I googled for 'cloud rendering' and his site was at the top of the list. It looks really impressive, and similar to something I saw in a Game Developer article by a MSFS guy. Mark provides source code under a "free license". If that's not GPL compatible enough, perhaps someone could work out something with him for FGFS? In fact his code is already available under SimGear/simgear/scene/sky/clouds3d But his code is far from cross-platform (especially big=-endian systems face problems) and it needs better integration with the scene graph library (currently plib) You could try the code by running 'fgfs --enable-clouds3d' Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Cloud Rendering
Has anyone looked into better cloud rendering in FGFS? There was some great work done by Mark Harris for his Ph.D. over at: http://www.markmark.net/ I couldn't remember his name, so I googled for 'cloud rendering' and his site was at the top of the list. It looks really impressive, and similar to something I saw in a Game Developer article by a MSFS guy. Mark provides source code under a "free license". If that's not GPL compatible enough, perhaps someone could work out something with him for FGFS? It's just an integration problem right? ;-) Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FlightGear on Mac OS X
Patches for FlightGear and SImgear (CVS) available
http://awiebe.blogdns.net/download/patches/flightgear.patch
http://awiebe.blogdns.net/download/patches/simgear.patch
These patches were created using "cvs diff -u"
The patches should be applied before you build and will only work on
Mac OS X because if you apply this patch on Linux or Windows it won't
be able to find the headers again :)
What needs to be done is something like this
if (defined("macintosh") {
#include
}
else {
#include
}
Can you tell that I don't program in C? :)
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 04:01:56 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> Arthur,
>
> > I have built FlightGear on Mac OS X. After a LOT of trial and error
> > building SimGear and FlightGear without the X11 SDK.
> >
>
> Great!
>
> > It seems all that needed to be done was change GL/gl.h and GL/glu.h in
> > all the source files which contained those includes to OpenGL/*.
> >
>
> I was really concerned why I could build without these Gl errors and
> you couldn't on mac os x so I did some research
>
> I have open GL headers in
>
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Headers
>
> and
>
> /System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/Headers
>
> If I do a 'grep -r "GL" * from ./src/flightgear/src, I get (among other
> things)
>
> FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h \
> FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po:
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h \
> FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po:/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h:
> FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/
> Headers/gl.h:
> FDM/.deps/UFO.Po: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h \
> FDM/.deps/UFO.Po:
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h \
> FDM/.deps/UFO.Po:/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h:
> FDM/.deps/UFO.Po:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/
> gl.h:
> FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h \
> FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po:
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h \
> FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po:/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h:
> FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po:/System/Library/Frameworks/
> OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h:
>
> Ouch! It turns out I have a GL directory in fgdev9.6/include that
> contains:
>
> /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include] ima% ls -l Gl
> total 32
> -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 232 14 Dec 2002 gl.h
> -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 26 14 Dec 2002 glext.h
> -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 24 14 Dec 2002 glu.h
> -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 23 14 Dec 2002 glut.h
>
> Yes, they're nearly two years old! Maybe that's why I could build and
> you couldn't? 8-(
>
> The real headers are:
>
> [Four-Computer:frameworks/opengl.framework/headers] ima% ls -l gl*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 124202 12 Sep 2003 gl.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 200923 12 Sep 2003 glext.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 294 12 Sep 2003 gliContext.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 47720 12 Sep 2003 gliDispatch.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 16259 12 Sep 2003 glu.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel2597 12 Sep 2003 gluContext.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel2242 12 Sep 2003 gluMacro.h
>
> The AGL headers are:
>
> ls -l /System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/Headers
> total 248
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 16716 13 Sep 2003 agl.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel889 13 Sep 2003 aglContext.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 71046 13 Sep 2003 aglMacro.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 1244 13 Sep 2003 aglRenderers.h
> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 56 25 Jan 2004 gl.h ->
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h
> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 64 25 Jan 2004 gliContext.h ->
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gliContext.h
> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 65 25 Jan 2004 gliDispatch.h ->
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gliDispatch.h
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 4327 13 Sep 2003 glm.h
> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 57 25 Jan 2004 glu.h ->
> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/glu.h
>
> When I remove this GL directory in fgdev9.6/include and rebuild, I get:
>
> Making all in tests
> source='est-epsilon.c' object='est-epsilon.o' libtool=no \
> depfile='.deps/est-epsilon.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/est-epsilon.TPo' \
> depmode=gcc3 /bin/sh ../depcomp \
> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../src/Include
> -I/Users/ima/Desktop/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT
> -c `test -f 'est-epsilon.c' || echo './'`est-epsilon.c
> est-epsilon.c:11:19: GL/glut.h: No such file or directory
> est-epsilon.c: In function `main':
> est-epsilon.c:15: error: `GLfloat' undeclared (first use in this
> function)
> est-epsilon.c:15: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only
> once
> est-epsilon.c:15: error: for each function it appears in.)
> est-epsilon.c:15: error: parse error before "a"
> est-epsilon.c:17: error: `a' undeclared (first use in this function)
> est-e
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux
"Ampere K. Hardraade" wrote: > On November 13, 2004 01:40 pm, Martin Spott wrote: > > Do you find something similar to this in your /var/log/messages ? > > > > Nov 13 19:28:04 quickstep kernel: [drm:radeon_unlock] *ERROR* Process 1000 > > using kernel context 0 > Yes. I keep getting that among other errors when I was trying to get fglrx > working, but I don't think that line is much of an issue. Well, at least it's an indicator that your DRI driver and the kernel DRM don't match - which is the reason why you don't get OpenGL hardware acceleration. Could you please post a sample of corrensponding logs from your setup ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FlightGear on Mac OS X
Arthur, I have built FlightGear on Mac OS X. After a LOT of trial and error building SimGear and FlightGear without the X11 SDK. Great! It seems all that needed to be done was change GL/gl.h and GL/glu.h in all the source files which contained those includes to OpenGL/*. I was really concerned why I could build without these Gl errors and you couldn't on mac os x so I did some research I have open GL headers in /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Headers and /System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/Headers If I do a 'grep -r "GL" * from ./src/flightgear/src, I get (among other things) FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h \ FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po: /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h \ FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po:/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h: FDM/.deps/MagicCarpet.Po:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/ Headers/gl.h: FDM/.deps/UFO.Po: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h \ FDM/.deps/UFO.Po: /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h \ FDM/.deps/UFO.Po:/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h: FDM/.deps/UFO.Po:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/ gl.h: FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h \ FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po: /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h \ FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po:/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include/GL/gl.h: FDM/Balloon/.deps/BalloonSim.Po:/System/Library/Frameworks/ OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h: Ouch! It turns out I have a GL directory in fgdev9.6/include that contains: /FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include] ima% ls -l Gl total 32 -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 232 14 Dec 2002 gl.h -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 26 14 Dec 2002 glext.h -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 24 14 Dec 2002 glu.h -rwxrwxr-x 1 ima staff 23 14 Dec 2002 glut.h Yes, they're nearly two years old! Maybe that's why I could build and you couldn't? 8-( The real headers are: [Four-Computer:frameworks/opengl.framework/headers] ima% ls -l gl* -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 124202 12 Sep 2003 gl.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 200923 12 Sep 2003 glext.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 294 12 Sep 2003 gliContext.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 47720 12 Sep 2003 gliDispatch.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 16259 12 Sep 2003 glu.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel2597 12 Sep 2003 gluContext.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel2242 12 Sep 2003 gluMacro.h The AGL headers are: ls -l /System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/Headers total 248 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 16716 13 Sep 2003 agl.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel889 13 Sep 2003 aglContext.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 71046 13 Sep 2003 aglMacro.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 1244 13 Sep 2003 aglRenderers.h lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 56 25 Jan 2004 gl.h -> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gl.h lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 64 25 Jan 2004 gliContext.h -> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gliContext.h lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 65 25 Jan 2004 gliDispatch.h -> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/gliDispatch.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 4327 13 Sep 2003 glm.h lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 57 25 Jan 2004 glu.h -> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Headers/glu.h When I remove this GL directory in fgdev9.6/include and rebuild, I get: Making all in tests source='est-epsilon.c' object='est-epsilon.o' libtool=no \ depfile='.deps/est-epsilon.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/est-epsilon.TPo' \ depmode=gcc3 /bin/sh ../depcomp \ gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../src/Include -I/Users/ima/Desktop/FlightGear/fgdev9.6/include -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -c `test -f 'est-epsilon.c' || echo './'`est-epsilon.c est-epsilon.c:11:19: GL/glut.h: No such file or directory est-epsilon.c: In function `main': est-epsilon.c:15: error: `GLfloat' undeclared (first use in this function) est-epsilon.c:15: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once est-epsilon.c:15: error: for each function it appears in.) est-epsilon.c:15: error: parse error before "a" est-epsilon.c:17: error: `a' undeclared (first use in this function) est-epsilon.c:22: error: `t' undeclared (first use in this function) make[1]: *** [est-epsilon.o] Error 1 make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 Sound familiar? So yes, it sounds like your patch is something needed for mac os x, either that or symlinks in ./include/GL to point to the real headers 8-) Just kidding, the patch is a MUCH better idea. Chalk it up to apple having non-standard locations for the opengl header files. I don't know where I came up with the idea of creating a GL directory, but there you go, it's there so go figure... I guess I 'll be getting rid of it as soon as your patch is ready. What needs to be done is to make a patch that include GL/* on other systems but OpenGL/* on Mac OS X. I believe this would make compiling SimGear and FlightGear on Mac OS X pain less. I had to make, make clean, make a
