Re: [Gendergap] Wiktionary *desperately* needs more gender-aware editors
Inline replies to 3 people... On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 1:57 PM, J Hayes wrote: > the smaller wikis have ownership issues , the arguments are so vehement > because the stakes are so small. > > i would advise trying out lots of other wikis like commons or wikisource > or wikidata. friendlier at source, and lots more metadata cleanup to do at > commons / wikidata. > Hello J. When someone comes to an issue-specific list to discuss that issue, why would you recommend that they just edit somewhere else and not speak to their question? Isn't it the point of this list to discuss gendergap issues? > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 3:13 AM, Peter Southwood < > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > >> At the risk of being labelled biased, I do not see that that was a >> legitimate fix to address systemic bias. It looked rather pointy to me. >> Perhaps you could explain just how it addressed systemic bias in a useful >> way. >> >> Cheers, Peter >> > Peter, what I see in that first edit was the removal of a sentence that spoke about the appearance of a woman for no reason at all. There is more information here http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Beauty_duty > *From:* Gendergap [mailto:gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Jessy D. King >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 April 2017 7:27 PM >> *To:* Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> *Subject:* [Gendergap] Wiktionary *desperately* needs more gender-aware >> editors >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm new to this list, this is my first post. >> >> >> >> If Wikipedia is a boy's club, Wiktionary is an uber boy's club. It *so* >> desperately needs people interested in addressing systemic bias. >> >> >> >> Every time I try to make completely legitimate fixes to address systemic >> bias of the male privilege variety (for example, >> >> https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=so&type=revision >> &diff=42598962&oldid=42598906 ) >> >> it is reverted very quickly (in the just-referenced case, within 10 >> minutes). Then a fight must ensue in which I'm accused of being things like >> "dishonest", "disrespectful" and 'railing'. The person in this case has >> demonstrated his double standards in his edit summary and in his comments >> to me on his talk page, and that is absolutely (unfortunately) the norm >> amongst long-term Wiktionary editors. >> >> >> >> It is incredibly demoralising. My contributions to Wiktionary include >> adding etymologies, adding quotations, all with absolutely no gender issues >> involved, yet none of that work is ever recognised in any way, and I'm >> treated like a resented interloper. The majority of long-term Wiktionary >> editors seem to bitterly resent the very suggestion of addressing systemic >> bias. It is a really, really nasty little uber boy's club in there. Which I >> realise may not encourage anyone to join, I'm just being honest. >> > Hello Jessy, I appreciate your efforts to remove gender issues from Wiktionary. I am disappointed that you found a similar reaction in this list. Warmly, Heather > >> >> >> >> ___ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Event] Wikiwomen's Lunch during Wikimania 2015
Hi everyone! WMF Communications would love to get your thoughts and ideas around Wikipedia's 15th birthday which is coming up in January of 2016. I'd like to invite any Wikiwomen here at Wikimania who want to participate to sign up on Meta. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimania_workshop Ideally we would have 6 people to run through a fun exercise. I think it will be from 10 to 11 on Sunday. Please come share! Thank you, Heather On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Netha Hussain wrote: > Hi everyone, > > As you might already know, Wikimania is happening in Mexico city > from July 15-19, 2015. There would be a Wikiwomen's lunch on Saturday, July > 18, from 12:30-13:45. Anyone who identify themselves as women and > participating in Wikimania 2015 are invited to attend the lunch. The venue > would be Don Genaro. > > If you are coming, please sign up on the event page here : > https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiwomen%27s_Lunch > > > Hope to meet you all while at Wikimania! > > Regards > Netha > > > > > > > > -- > Netha Hussain > Student of Medicine and Surgery > Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode > Blogs : > *nethahussain.blogspot.com > <http://nethahussain.blogspot.com>swethaambari.wordpress.com > <http://swethaambari.wordpress.com>* > > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > -- Heather Walls Wikimedia Foundation 149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105 annual.wikimedia.org ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Test Kaffeeklatsch area for women-only
> The "cis" prefix is most frequently used when there is a fairly equal >> division between two different presentations. >> > Not in some of my circles. > Thus, using this prefix prefix inaccurately reflects the distribution of > gender identities. Let's not kid ourselves, no matter what data are being > presented, 70% or more of the human population *does* self-identify with > the gender assigned at birth. (The whole first paragraph on the origin of > the term is original research, but I'm not going to touch it with a 10-foot > pole.) > Perhaps labeling that way is a matter of habit, but is it the right thing to do -- to make something other because it's minority? > We would never even consider calling people who have two feet "cispedal" > or people who have blood pressure in the normal range "cistensive". In > fact, there's a word for those with blood pressure in the normal range: > "normotensive". But it wouldn't look politically correct to call people > who identify with their assigned birth gender as "normogender", which would > be the linguistically correct prefix, because that encompasses the majority > of people. [For the record, I'd never advocate the use of that term, > either.] > > Let's just call women "women" or, if it's really felt that we need to be > exclusive, "those who self-identify as women". > > > Risker/Anne > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > -- Heather Walls Communications Design Manager I Wikimedia Foundation 149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105 heat...@wikimedia.org ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Test Kaffeeklatsch area for women-only
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Risker wrote: > Whatever else "cis" is, it's not a scientific term. It's a buzzword that > sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a > coined term that is not used in science. > What makes a term scientific other than that scientists use it? "Sociologists Kristen Schilt and Laurel Westbrook define *cisgender* as a label for "individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity" as a complement to *transgender <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender>*.[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#cite_note-2>" *"Sociology* is the academic study of social behaviour <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behaviour>, its origins, development, organisation, and institutions <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution>. [1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-1> It is a social science <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science> that uses various methods of empirical investigation <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_method>[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements8-2> and critical analysis <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_analysis>[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements4-3> to develop a body of knowledge about social order, social disorder and social change." > > Risker/Anne > > > > On 16 January 2015 at 16:33, Sarah Stierch > wrote: > >> I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago... >> but, here's the Wikipedia article: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender >> >> It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So, >> if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's >> totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis. >> >> I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's >> an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural >> movement. >> >> But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of >> these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana. ;-) >> >> Sarah >> >> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey < >> fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> *"Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates >>> womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women >>> from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women."* >>> ...wha? >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc < >>> carolmoor...@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote: >>>> >>>> Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F>, >>>> I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch> area >>>> for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested >>>> women would be welcome. >>>> >>>> Lightbreather >>>> >>>> Since "cis" means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only? >>>> >>>> Also note many women consider "cis" to be an insult that eliminates >>>> womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women >>>> from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women. >>>> >>>> CM >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Gendergap mailing list >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >>> visit: >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sarah Stierch >> >> - >> >> Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization. >> >> www.sarahstierch.com >> >> ___ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > -- Heather Walls Communications Design Manager I Wikimedia Foundation 149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105 heat...@wikimedia.org ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] (no subject)
On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Tim Davenport wrote: > I for one would immediately be running the project through the Miscellany > for Deletion process. > > You don't see anything slightly wrong with this idea? Really?!? > > This is 100% unadulterated identity politics. > You say that as if identity politics is somehow inherently negative. > > Tim Davenport > Carrite on WP /// Randy from Boise on WPO > Corvallis, OR > > > >>Is it simply impossible to start a Wikipedia project that's open to > women, > or people who identify as women? (I'm sorry if I don't use the correct > terms, but I haven't kept up with them in recent years.) > > >>I mean if we did it... what would the consequences be? > > >>Lightbreather > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > -- *Heather Walls* Communications Design Manager I Wikimedia Foundation 149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105 heat...@wikimedia.org ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] How to Acknowledge an all-male panel.
I'm not sure what you mean by "qualified speakers", but you did you ask on this list? -h On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Maximilian Klein wrote: > Hello Gender Gap, > > With some collaborators, I submitted this panel for Wikimania 2014 "Reform > of citation structure for all Wikimedia project" [1]. Despite my best > efforts (and continuing efforts), I couldn't find any non-men to be on the > panel. I asked each of the potential panelists if they knew any other > qualified speakers (not specifically women, just other people), asked my > old colleagues, put a call out on social media. But it just ended up being > all-men. > > Is it desirable to write something to the effect of "we are cognizant this > is an all-male panel, and would like to change the underlying factors" as a > preamble to the submissions? And if so, what is the right way? > > Best, > > [1] > http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Reform_of_citation_structure_for_all_Wikimedia_projects > > Max Klein > http://notconfusing.com/ > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > -- Heather Walls Communications Design Manager WikimediaFoundation.org heat...@wikimedia.org ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts
> > Wow. What a ridiculous way to say "yes". Ive always found you to be > switched on and relevant in the past; but looking over your contributions > to those AFDs it feels like your certain the aim is to remove these > articles because we are anti-women. And for no other reason. > > This is the sort of thing that puts women off editing Wikipedia and I am > happy to call it out. > Tom > Lord knows I can't sort out the feelings and frustrations in this thread, but I have a reaction to this statement: "This is the sort of thing that puts women off editing Wikipedia and I am happy to call it out." This is a speculative claim from someone who seems to be attempting to speak for an entire group of people to which I don't think they belong by birth or nature (and pardon me if I am wrong in that assumption). My point here is that it is a cruel dig toward someone (Carol) who very clearly works toward equalizing gender issues on Wikipedia. As a woman, I would ask you not to speak for me when criticizing other women or deciding what would put me off of editing Wikipedia. For me personally, this wouldn't even be on the radar. Thank you. Heather ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia
Advertising not sexist. Really. I realize this is a tangent, but if I am going to see cumshot in my email list a few more times, I might as well join in. Hi all! Heather On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Morton wrote: > Is there a perception bias here? > > There are many many fine art nudes of men in existence. And if you look at > the body of work for nude sculpture then many are male - Pope Pius IX > was so enraged by this he even went around sticking fig leaves over all the > cocks in the vatican*, an utter travesty in art. > > If you wander around the Louvre you will see lots of nude men on display. > > Modern advertising? Again perception bias I think - buy any girly mag (and > I've been subjected to many) and they are littered with pictures of > half-dressed blokes. Case in point; the famous image of Beckham in very > small undies. > > One of my friends in advertising likes to say something along the lines of > "well one good thing you can say about this industry; at the very least we > are not sexists". > > Nude people are popular pretty much in general :) > > Tom > > * ahem, that might be construed wrongly :S > > On 2 May 2012 17:55, Ryan Kaldari wrote: > >> ** >> That's a good point. Even here in San Francisco it's much easier to find >> female nudity in art and advertising than male nudity. I just wish people >> would stick to commenting on the art instead of the woman's body. >> >> Ryan Kaldari >> >> >> >> On 5/2/12 12:40 AM, Caroline Becker wrote: >> >> The problem is, we live in a biased world where you can find much, much >> more female nudity in fine art musem than male nudity. I'm currently >> post-treating and uploading pictures from the Museum of Fine Arts of Rennes >> (France) and the only naked male body is a sculpture of a boy/young >> teenager playing, while they are lot of naked women, both in sculpture and >> paintings. Half-naked men are more often corpses than sexy budies. (If you >> want I can create a gallery with all artworks showing naked or half-naked >> women). >> >> What can I do with that ? Not uploaded pictures of artworks with naked >> women ? Working harder to have awesome pictures of artworks with naked men >> ? >> >> Caroline >> >> >> 2012/5/2 Pete Forsyth >> >>> It seems strange to talk about "Featured Pictured Candidates" as though >>> it is a process, or talk about "bias" -- from what I could discern when I >>> looked into it last time around, it's basically a system that lets anybody >>> promote their own work, as long as they know how to jump through a couple >>> pretty straightforward hoops and wait a few months. >>> >>> I still think that simply, clearly, *documenting* the process in a >>> practical sense would be a useful first step toward thinking up and >>> building interest in a more refined system. Until somebody puts in the >>> effort to do something like that, we're going to continue to see weird >>> entries on the front page of Commons (and many other projects that use >>> Commons' front page image on their own front page) simply because one >>> person took the initiative to make it happen. >>> >>> Not because the "community" at Commons made a bad decision. The >>> "community" didn't make a decision at all. >>> >>> -Pete >>> >>> >>> On May 1, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote: >>> >>> > Speaking of gender and nudity, it seems the bias towards female nudity >>> at en.wiki's Featured Picture Candidates is still as strong as ever. And >>> check out the quality comments at >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/The_Pearl_and_the_Wave >>> > >>> > After you guys are finished photographing your all-male cumshots, >>> maybe you could find some nice nude male art to nominate at Featured >>> Picture Candidates. Too bad Robert Mapplethorpe is still copyrighted. >>> > >>> > Ryan Kaldari >>> > >>> > On 4/28/12 12:17 AM, Paolo Massa wrote: >>> >> If you are curious about the images used in the same article on other >>> >> language editions of Wikipedia you can use Manypedia. >>> >> For the page "Cumshot", it seems currently the same image is used on >>> >> all language editions, while the Spanish one uses one more image >>> >> http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Cumshot|es >>> >> and the Japanese a different additional one. >>> >> http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Cumshot|ja >>> >> >>> >> Of course this is not to say that if all language editions of >>> >> Wikipedia represent the same concept using the same images, this is >>> >> the best way of representing it. But at least you can appreciate >>> >> differences in representations of different language communities. >>> >> For example see the page Underwear on English and Arabic Wikipedia, >>> >> http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Underwear|ar >>> >> >>> >> Hope it helps. >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 3:42 AM, Emily Monroe >>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm not sure the technical term for it either, but the laymen's term >>> is >>> >>> female ejactulation. *shrugs* >>> >>> >>> >>> Fr
Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code
I just wanted to let you all know (can't remember if anyone has linked these) that Stanford is offering some free online courses, like a CS101 by Nick Parlante that is starting April 23: https://www.coursera.org/course/cs101 "CS101 teaches the essential ideas of Computer Science for a zero-prior-experience audience. Computers can appear very complicated, but in reality, computers work within just a few, simple patterns. CS101 demystifies and brings those patterns to life, which is useful for anyone using computers today." Best! Heather Designer at the Wikimedia Foundation On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: > Hi Sarah (and all), > > On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400 > Sarah Stierch wrote: > > > Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart! > > > > "She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence > > < > http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier > >, > > then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were > > things women didn't do, and that there were no good female > > mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said. > > > > It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about > > stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I > > remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt > > so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math > > classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and > > write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to > > take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it > > wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, > > etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I > > know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math." Someday I'll > > take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps > > there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your > > grandma could learn to code at!" event. > > > > The perpetuation of these stereotypes is often geographical, as in Israel, > for > example, many female high school students graduate with 5 points of maths, > 5 points of physics, and other such "Realistic Sciences"-oriented subjects, > and when my sister studied in the Technion ( http://www.technion.ac.il/ ), > which was close to when I graduated, there were 30% of female students > studying > Computer Science there. That put aside, I studied Electrical Engineering > (which > in the Technion can easily end up as something close to what Americans > know as > Computer Engineering[1]), where only 10% of the students were female, and > it's most likely due to a low percentage of female students who applied > there. > > In any case, there is no good reason to propagate these stereotypes, or for > girls and women to feel intimidated from studying maths. Like you, I also > feel > that you don't need too much mathematics for most of the daily work > involving > programming, but it does crop up in various contexts in computer science. I > wouldn't encourage completely getting rid of mathematics from the CS > curriculums (or even from software engineering ones) because then we end up > with a similar syndrome to what is described here: > > http://xkcd.com/547/ > > We can still teach programming to people without a good knowledge of > maths, and many children (or pre-teens or teenagers or whatever you wish to > call them) have been studying programming before they even studied Algebra. > > > [1] - one should note that in the Technion, Computer Engineering is a > combined > Electrical Engineering/Computer Science specialisation, which is more > demanding than either degree, so an Electrical Engineering proper graduate > is > not allowed to say he has a degree in Computer Engineering, but this is a > different (and somewhat sad) story. > > > > I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, > > after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an > > article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I > > had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is > > that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated > > by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum > > studies. > > > > On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that > > took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and > > personal pressure. > > > > Well, as a teenager, I planned on becoming a mathematician (I had somewhat > different interests as a younger child). Then after high school I got a few > jobs as a software developer, and decided to study something related. > After a > failed attempt at studying Mathematics and Computer Science in tau.ac.il(I > freaked out completely, due to silly misconceptions), I worked for a few > months in a different workplace
