Re: [Gendergap] uk chairman band

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Sandra Ordonez  wrote:
> the uk chairman band was mentioned in daily dot today http://dly.do/M9K4Sv

Ugh, please, please, please just start a new thread from scratch (send
an email to gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org ) if it's unrelated to an
existing thread. (You did change the subject which was nice but not
enough!)

Thanks,
Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] You Guys Made Me Smile

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 7, 2013 8:43 PM, "Sandra ordonez"  wrote:
> So tonight I'm at an event, and begin to chat with two amazing
women...at the end of the evening one of them mentions:
>
> Did you hear that there is a feminist take over of wikipedia event on the
15th?
>
> It made me smile and think; WOW these ladies are kicking ass :)

Must be http://feminismseast2013.thatcamp.org/schedule/ (it's 3
simultaneous cities this year. NYC, Scripps College (Claremont, CA),
Atlanta, GA)

They gave a talk at Wikipedia Day this year. They had an editathon last
year as well but it was during the Berlin conference so Richard and I
missed it.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] start Porno related list?? can the Commons images thread move?

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 18, 2013 2:14 AM, "Carol Moore DC"  wrote:
> How about starting a list just for these porno related discussions?
>
> Most women won't find these photos to be turned off by them, so it is
slightly off topic.
>
> Just announce a new thread here and then people who want to discuss can
join that list.
>
> I'm seriously thinking of dropping off because it's just too much...

Looping in the mailman so he can remind us of the usual reasons for and
against creating a new list. (or splitting a list)

I personally don't care much if it's split but OTOH I haven't read all the
recent threads either.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Changing the Chelsea Manning article (and how women were shouted down)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sep 5, 2013 6:55 PM, "Risker"  wrote:
> Secondly, redirects are expensive - not to those in the Western world
with fast computers and high speed internet, but to those who are on
dial-up or have comparatively high lag times because of distance (lots of
people at Wikimania had difficulty getting good access to Wikipedia during
their stay in Hong Kong, for example).  A redirect means that the reader
must first load up the "redirect" page and then follow the redirect
instruction and wind up on the intended page.  I don't think we pay nearly
enough attention to the comparatively poor performance from WMF that our
Asian, African, and South American colleagues experience; we're terribly
spoiled.

that's not how redirects work on Wikipedia. (at least for a redirect
directly to a page with content… double redirects, i.e. a redirect to a
redirect which then points to a real page it is more like how you
described. but we have bots and special: pages for fixing double redirects)

we serve a 200 with a little hatnote that says it was a redirect and
otherwise serve the same content as if they had visited the canonical name
directly. i.e. we don't currently send a 30x to the canonical name and the
alternative name remains in the URL in the user's location bar.

the actual timing difference client-side should be smaller than anything a
human could detect. (or too small for a computer to notice? idk if anyone's
done a study)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Changing the Chelsea Manning article (and how women were shouted down)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Risker  wrote:
> Yeah, I keep hearing those excuses for performance problems, Jeremy. It
> takes longer to serve up the original page here in North America on a fast
> connection - enough so that it is noticeable on a normal computer.

I don't know what that means. ("Original page"? does that mean it loads
faster with a redirect than by hitting the canonical URL directly?)

Please provide enough details (steps, recipe, instructions, whatever you
want to call it) so that someone else could repeat your experiment to
verify your results.

Ideally we'd do that for both logged in and logged out users (and various
combinations of prefs) but in the case of redirects for Shirley Temple
Black and Chelsea Manning I think we mostly care about logged out users
visiting the /wiki/${title} style URLs (so not people visiting &uselang= or
&useskin= URLs) so let's focus on those. Which case were you testing?

-Jeremy
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[Gendergap] Fwd: [Multimedia] NSFW image searches

[Jeremy Baron]

FYI

-- Forwarded message --
From: "Gergo Tisza" 
Date: May 16, 2014 2:25 AM
Subject: [Multimedia] NSFW image searches
To: "multimedia" 
Cc:

> For those of you who are not following wikimedia-l: you might be
interested in this discussion about searches with harmless keywords
bringing up very NSFW images (an old and highly controversial topic):
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/71770/focus=71903
> (I am linking the (currently) last few mails of the thread; the
discussion leading up to them is also interesting, but terribly long.)
>
> ___
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> multime...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikidata, gamification and gender

[Jeremy Baron]

FYI, msg from another list below.

-Jeremy

-- Forwarded message --
From: "Jeremy Baron" 
Date: May 21, 2014 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WikimediaMobile] micro-contributions on mobile via wikidata
To: "Magnus Manske" 
Cc: "mobile-l" 

> On May 21, 2014 9:55 PM, "Jeremy Baron"  wrote:
> > On May 21, 2014 9:07 PM, "Erik Moeller"  wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ryan Kaldari 
wrote:
> > > > Most of these "games" would be great in a mobile context.
> > >
> > > The current design is already responsive - but I wasn't able to
> > > actually get the OAuth authorization to work on mobile, at least not
> > > on Firefox/Android :(
> >
> > I just did it with Firefox. I think I first hit "allow" on desktop
MediaWiki and then got an "application connection error" from mobile.
Unknown OAuth key, E006.
> >
> > Then went back to tool labs, hit the button again and back to desktop
MediaWiki. Now the dialog had some bad styles or something so some of the
text was hidden and I couldn't see the buttons at all. Manually changed URL
from www.mediawiki.org → m.mediawiki.org and then authorized through
mobilefrontend and finally got the game working.
>
> A couple more issues (but not strictly mobile things):
>
> * You may want to avoid merges/"same item" tasks until
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions&oldid=132186913is
resolved.
> * Can we force HTTPS for the game so we're not leaking usernames over
cleartext HTTP? (not just because the edits can be correlated with who was
asked about them but also the game interface displays your username and a
user could do Wikidata actions in your name if they got your HTTP cookie in
the clear)
>
> Thanks
>
> -Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 30, 2014 10:27 PM, "Sarah Stierch"  wrote:
> I've never been "suspended" (whatever that means) by anyone or anything.
If you're talking about me..? Before I'm the victim of any BLP violations
;)
>
> I do know sometimes get Sarah (Slim Virgin) and myself confused (which I
take as a compliment :) )

For the record, the quote in question was SlimVirgin.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 30, 2014 11:14 PM, "Sarah"  wrote:
> ​Jeremy, which quote is this? I recall someone on this list saying that
someone called Sarah was suspended (unclear what's meant) for an off-wiki
comment. (Or something like that; I can't find the original.) I can't think
of how that might apply to me, and Sarah Stierch has said it doesn't apply
to her.

See this message from earlier on this thread:

On Jun 29, 2014 8:30 PM Eastern, "Marie Earley"  wrote:
> My apologies it was Carol Moore responding to Sarah Stierch earlier on, I
mentioned it from memory,
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2014-June/004397.html

If you follow Marie's link and then dig up the original message quoted at
the link from "Sarah" you'll find it was SlimVirgin not Sarah Stierch
(Marie apparently misattributed).

I haven't read all the mails, just did a bit of digging.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:03 AM, Marie Earley  wrote:
> Gosh, I did make a pig's ear out of it didn't I. I didn't realize the list
> had two Sarahs on it.

More than two I'm sure :-)

Thank you Wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_a_pig%27s_ear_of

-Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] Addressing incivility (was: men on lists)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jul 5, 2014 2:18 AM, "Pharos"  wrote:
> I think the closest thing we have with these capabilities is the
Wikimedia OTRS system:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS
>
> Specific queues can be customized in many ways, I believe, though others
will know more about this.

Yes, there are plenty of per-queue settings. e.g. auto reply on receiving a
new ticket, behavior on receiving a followup to an existing ticket, ACL,
boilerplates, filters, etc.

Pete mentioned OTRS earlier.

There's even some queues set up with their own on wiki accounts so you can
mail the queue from special:emailuser.

Anyway, before deciding on a tool we need to know how the tool is intended
to work.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Zoë Wicomb or Clive Cussler?

[Jeremy Baron]

also discussed on the talk page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:October_(novel)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Sexualized environment on Commons

[Jeremy Baron]

On Aug 2, 2014 11:01 AM, "LtPowers"  wrote:
> And then there could be a little chat window allowing real-time
communication while the editor walks through her first edit.

[originally didn't realize who you were replying to… also haven't read the
whole thread yet]

That is technically feasible. Maybe would have new implications for privacy
(including WMF privacy policy). Unless the realtime chats were publicly
logged. (then same privacy as existing teahouse, etc)

Essentially would be a more interactive version of teahouse? (i.e. shorter
wait for a reply and you're paired with someone that's known to be
available at that moment) would be a part of teahouse?

How would you staff it? Shifts?

Anyway, that does nothing for the case Kathleen describes. 25 people
(20f:5m) in a class and everyone getting that introduction to all things
wiki. Then 7 stay active for a year including all the men. (and only 2 of
the 20 women)

I'm leaning towards thinking we as a community should (for now) focus more
on the retention gap than the recruitment gap. Then we're not recruiting
people just to (mostly) lose them in a month or two. But would be
interested to hear thoughts on that from someone with a more rigorous
analysis.

-Jeremy (jeremyb)

P.S. http://www.onthemedia.org/story/31-race-swap-experiment/
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Re: [Gendergap] Noiva do Cordeiro

[Jeremy Baron]

On Aug 27, 2014 1:55 PM, "Krystle"  wrote:
> Is this for real?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/town-entire-population-made-up-4113722
>
> And if so, should there be a Wikipedia entry about it? I started to draft
one but am a little worried because there seems to be only one article
about this mysterious town. Hoax, maybe.

I didn't get any hits in either of

* https ://
nominatim.openstreetmap.org/

* http:// geonames.nga.mil
/ 
namesgaz /


Maybe there's a Brazilian DB to check?

(CC Oona :) )

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] What's happening at ArbCom re WP:GGTF

[Jeremy Baron]

On Nov 25, 2014 2:48 PM, "Sarah Stierch"  wrote:
> could there ever be any legal repercussion - like the "real" legal
system, not an internet community - that could be taken to support a person
who should not be "banned" from a website? like carol?  If you're called
lots of nasty names, if men aren't being banned, etc but women are,
blahblahblah - that's sexist and discrimination IMHO.

There's a few options, sticks and a carrot. But I don't think any of them
are appropriate here.

I'm not even sure if solutions to the arbcom mess(es) should come from the
foundation at all.

Stick: find a law that would be violated by such a ban. maybe in order to
have standing, the banned user would herself have to be party to the suit.
(i.e. couldn't be filed by an arbitrary bystander) I doubt such a law
exists. Women are a protected class under some laws but I don't see how
they would apply here.

WMF is AFAIK a relatively ordinary 501(c)(3). (legally speaking) It was not
chartered by an act of a legislature nor is it a part of any government
department or agency.

Or find a part of the bylaws, articles of incorporation or a policy of the
foundation that this ban would violate.

I don't think this would work.

(Although, taking this a step further, if editors were employees rather
than volunteers then I guess there would be substantial remedies available)

Stick version 2: convince the voting membership of the foundation to make
some sort of change.

WMF is not a membership organization so that doesn't work.

Carrot: get a major funder of the foundation to reverse course or to ask
the foundation to do something. or get the legislature or executive of a
government sponsor to make funds conditional on X. (like the way US federal
policies dictate state drinking ages though highway maintenance funding (or
withholding thereof))

I don't think WMF gets any government funds now and could probably do well
enough with just banners to survive without major donors. (at least given
current trends; already most revenue is from small individual donations)

> I have a lawyer on standby for every single threat that comes my way now
on the internet, and that includes Wikipedia - I'm not rich, but, frankly,
I just can't do it alone anymore and the system isn't solving anything.
>From Twitter to Wikipedia, a day doesnt' go by when myself or a woman I
know isn't threatened on the internet. I'm just so sick of it.

:(

> I'm also really pissed off in general about the last 24 hours in america.
So whatever.

+1 :(

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] x% female, y% male. ???

[Jeremy Baron]

On Nov 27, 2014 9:55 AM, "Carol Moore dc"  wrote:
> The study's talk page has ongoing discussions of people being annoyed about 
> this issue. Probably first place any updates will show up:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_Editor_Survey_2012

I wrote there:

> See [http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/the-wikipedia-gender-gap-revisited Mako's 
> study] which includes the initial numbers from before his changes. I thought 
> the study results were already released by the time he did the study but 
> maybe I'm wrong. Anyway at least there are numbers. But IMHO absolute numbers 
> are not as important as change rates over time. (which has been the topic of 
> debate among researchers not too long ago also) --

-Jeremy

P.S. haven't read the arbcom case or any of the onwiki discussion but
I generally support points I've seen on these threads from Sarah
Stierch.

P.P.S. Everyone who is having turkey, etc. today should enjoy it. :)

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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf"  wrote:
> I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
there was a very high proportion of African descent.

I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of
the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential
recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.

I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused*
on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a
connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach
but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they
started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.

https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 23, 2015 11:41 AM, "Katherine Casey" 
wrote:
> I recognize at least some of the names on the attendance list there as
people who don't, to the best of my knowledge, identify as being of African
descent, so it doesn't appear to have been an event that excluded anyone.

I think that wording was referring to future events not yesterday's event.

See also http://www.afrocrowd.org/

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] ATTENTION MODERATOR- last email

[Jeremy Baron]

I also don't see the message you were referring to.

Next time, if you want to address just the moderators rather than the
whole list you can mail gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org

-Jeremy

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 13:38, Nathan  wrote:
> I don't see that your message came through. Messages over a certain byte
> limit (which can often be surpassed by quoting large bodies of text) are
> held in moderation, so hopefully that happened to yours. You can resend it
> without the appended text and the list mod can just reject or ignore your
> original e-mail.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Karen Sue Rolph 
> wrote:
>>
>> Would you please remove all other appended content that I did not delete
>> from my email 3 minutes ago?  There is a long string of conversation that is
>> unnecessarily included.
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Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 01:33, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
 wrote:
> Do we have an article on that women's club somewhere in England that, one
> year, put out their annual calendar showing them going about their regular
> club activities (gardening, tea, etc.) nude? IIRC, they were all in their
> fifties and sixties at the time, and the calendar sold quite well. I wish I
> could remember more details.

Here's what I found, not sure if it's what you had in mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_Girls#Inspiration
http://leukaemialymphomaresearch.org.uk/get-involved/calendar-girls/calendar-girls-story

-Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] Weird lame body fashion whatever website of the, day

[Jeremy Baron]

ourmed.org (a MediaWiki wiki) is in NYC and they've come to several of
our meetups.
(wiki seems kinda dead or at least dormant; per their recentchanges,
they seem to have done spam and vandal fighting every day in the last
2 weeks but there's no actual content work for 2 weeks straight
AFAICT. of course, that's not really relevant to them having contacts
to help with this and I think there's a good chance they would have
some.)

Their director is GMiller1965 @ enwp. Let me or Pharos know if you'd
like us to make an introduction.

-Jeremy

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 01:09, Nicole Willson
 wrote:
> There are some medical wikis out there that might be good to collaborate
> with:
> http://askdrwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Physician_Medical_Wiki
> http://www.medpedia.com/ - This one looks like they also have a Quora like
> system that lets you ask questions.
> If those methods don't work, I know a gyno I could contact.
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Sarah Stierch 
> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know a medical doctor/gyno who can perhaps provide some type of
>> documentation/review of the content?
>> Not sure if it would ever matter...but, a solid letter and such could help
>> maybe..
>> I haven't looked at the article, I admit, it's a subject I'm not
>> comfortable "examining"
>> Another example of why medical support could be beneficial to Wikipedia as
>> a whole.
>> Sarah (Stierch)

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Re: [Gendergap] Deterrent

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 14:58, Mig  wrote:
> I believe that men editors have targeted me for and with their biases and 
> have done everything they could to humiliate me publicly , which acts as a 
> deterrent to female editors who are not well connected with wikipedia ranks.  
>  Please refer to my page. Thank u. Migdia Chinea
>
> Sent from Migdia's iPhone

I assume you're referring to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Migdiachinea , is that right?

Just so people don't have to go searching to find what you're talking about.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] Techies You Decide! You're either a feminist or a misogynist - by Trevor Owens

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 13:09, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> http://www.trevorowens.org/2011/12/techies-you-decide-you’re-either-a-feminist-or-a-misogynist/

evil, evil smart quotes.

http://www.trevorowens.org/2011/12/techies-you-decide-you%E2%80%99re-either-a-feminist-or-a-misogynist/

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Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 02:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
> Laura, in pt case I can imagine the wp number to be right (or close enough),
> but from where did you took the wikimedia one? pt.wikimedia.org is a
> redirect to wikimedia.pt

it is a redirect but it's also a wiki with content and therefore a
database and therefore gender stats!
see back door: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pt/wiki/Wikimedia_Portugal
:)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] Thoughts on training and gender and training generally

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 08:43, Gillian White  wrote:
> I have reformatted my comments about training so they are less a report and
> more of a guideline, added some additional material and posted it here
> http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_training_adults
> The idea was to make it useful as a reference.

See also http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/TAO (the swiss chapter and
maybe another are working on that project)

-Jeremy

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