Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Hi Shane On 05/06/2011 14:53, Shane Curcuru wrote: Sophie Gautier wrote: [...] I've got the BOPI for France if you're interested in. Kind regards Sophie Yes, please. If anyone has direct links to specific registration numbers and where they're held of either "OpenOffice.org" (which we're talking about here) or "Open Office" (which some other organizations have in at least Europe) they'd be very helpful. I posted a link to the Benelux registration of "Open Office" by that company in the Netherlands. The best place to send those is tradema...@apache.org, a privately archived list where we organize trademark policy for the ASF. Done. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding and Steering Committee member of The Document Foundation - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Res: Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
I'll try to clarify that with the people involved with the project at that time.
Best,
Jomar
-Original Message-
From: Simon Phipps
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 13:18:06
To:
Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
I'm aware that Sun successfully challenged a problematic third party
registration in Brazil just as the acquisition was going through. It may be
worth early investigation in case the registration on Sun's behalf was not
then completed; OOo had serious issues in Brazil over many years because of
it.
{Terse? Mobile!}
On Jun 5, 2011 12:53 PM, "Shane Curcuru" wrote:
> Sophie Gautier wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> On 05/06/2011 10:06, Julien Vermillard wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Shane Curcuru
>>> wrote:
>>>> Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>>>> ...snip...
>>>>>
>>>>> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo?
>>>>
>>>> ...snip...
>>>>
>>>> The ASF has a recorded Software Grant that includes the trademark
>>>> along with
>>>> a specific list of source code files.
>>>>
>>>> I have not yet seen the specific grant of the trademark itself at the
>>>> ASF
>>>> yet (i.e. legal documents officially transferring ownership within
>>>> the USPTO
>>>> here in the US).
>>>>
>>>> As best I understand, the ASF does not currently own the trademark,
>>>> but the
>>>> intent of both Oracle and the ASF is that the trademark will be
>>>> transferred
>>>> to the ASF once the appropriate legal paperwork is completed. I
>>>> presume,
>>>> and will follow up, to ensure this includes the graphical logo with the
>>>> seagulls.
>>>>
>>>> Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of
>>>> "OpenOffice.org" or
>>>> the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US?
>>>>
>>>> - Shane Curcuru
>>>> VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation
>>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>>>>
>>>> For those interested:
>>>> http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78581289
>>>> http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77021413
>>>>
>>> Hi
>>> I found it in the E.U. database, look like it's registered (with the
>>> logo).
>>> You can check there searching "openoffice" (can't paste result url..) :
>>>
>>> http://tmview.europa.eu/tmview/basicSearch.html
>>>
>>> http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic
>>
>> I've got the BOPI for France if you're interested in.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Sophie
>
> Yes, please. If anyone has direct links to specific registration
> numbers and where they're held of either "OpenOffice.org" (which we're
> talking about here) or "Open Office" (which some other organizations
> have in at least Europe) they'd be very helpful. I posted a link to the
> Benelux registration of "Open Office" by that company in the Netherlands.
>
> The best place to send those is tradema...@apache.org, a privately
> archived list where we organize trademark policy for the ASF.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Shane
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
I'm aware that Sun successfully challenged a problematic third party
registration in Brazil just as the acquisition was going through. It may be
worth early investigation in case the registration on Sun's behalf was not
then completed; OOo had serious issues in Brazil over many years because of
it.
{Terse? Mobile!}
On Jun 5, 2011 12:53 PM, "Shane Curcuru" wrote:
> Sophie Gautier wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> On 05/06/2011 10:06, Julien Vermillard wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Shane Curcuru
>>> wrote:
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
...snip...
>
> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo?
...snip...
The ASF has a recorded Software Grant that includes the trademark
along with
a specific list of source code files.
I have not yet seen the specific grant of the trademark itself at the
ASF
yet (i.e. legal documents officially transferring ownership within
the USPTO
here in the US).
As best I understand, the ASF does not currently own the trademark,
but the
intent of both Oracle and the ASF is that the trademark will be
transferred
to the ASF once the appropriate legal paperwork is completed. I
presume,
and will follow up, to ensure this includes the graphical logo with the
seagulls.
Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of
"OpenOffice.org" or
the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US?
- Shane Curcuru
VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
For those interested:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78581289
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77021413
>>> Hi
>>> I found it in the E.U. database, look like it's registered (with the
>>> logo).
>>> You can check there searching "openoffice" (can't paste result url..) :
>>>
>>> http://tmview.europa.eu/tmview/basicSearch.html
>>>
>>> http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic
>>
>> I've got the BOPI for France if you're interested in.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Sophie
>
> Yes, please. If anyone has direct links to specific registration
> numbers and where they're held of either "OpenOffice.org" (which we're
> talking about here) or "Open Office" (which some other organizations
> have in at least Europe) they'd be very helpful. I posted a link to the
> Benelux registration of "Open Office" by that company in the Netherlands.
>
> The best place to send those is tradema...@apache.org, a privately
> archived list where we organize trademark policy for the ASF.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Shane
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Sophie Gautier wrote: Hi all, On 05/06/2011 10:06, Julien Vermillard wrote: On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote: Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: ...snip... * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? ...snip... The ASF has a recorded Software Grant that includes the trademark along with a specific list of source code files. I have not yet seen the specific grant of the trademark itself at the ASF yet (i.e. legal documents officially transferring ownership within the USPTO here in the US). As best I understand, the ASF does not currently own the trademark, but the intent of both Oracle and the ASF is that the trademark will be transferred to the ASF once the appropriate legal paperwork is completed. I presume, and will follow up, to ensure this includes the graphical logo with the seagulls. Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of "OpenOffice.org" or the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US? - Shane Curcuru VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ For those interested: http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78581289 http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77021413 Hi I found it in the E.U. database, look like it's registered (with the logo). You can check there searching "openoffice" (can't paste result url..) : http://tmview.europa.eu/tmview/basicSearch.html http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic I've got the BOPI for France if you're interested in. Kind regards Sophie Yes, please. If anyone has direct links to specific registration numbers and where they're held of either "OpenOffice.org" (which we're talking about here) or "Open Office" (which some other organizations have in at least Europe) they'd be very helpful. I posted a link to the Benelux registration of "Open Office" by that company in the Netherlands. The best place to send those is tradema...@apache.org, a privately archived list where we organize trademark policy for the ASF. Thanks! - Shane - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Hi Shane, Op 5-6-2011 6:11, Shane Curcuru schreef: Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of "OpenOffice.org" or the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US? The name "Open Office" has been registered in the Benelux by the Dutch company Open Office Automatisering since before OpenOffice.org was announced, see http://www.openoffice.nl/merkenregistratie Because of this and similar cases we need taking care to not omit the ".org" when indicating the project or the product OpenOffice.org. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Hi all, On 05/06/2011 10:06, Julien Vermillard wrote: On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote: Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: ...snip... * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? ...snip... The ASF has a recorded Software Grant that includes the trademark along with a specific list of source code files. I have not yet seen the specific grant of the trademark itself at the ASF yet (i.e. legal documents officially transferring ownership within the USPTO here in the US). As best I understand, the ASF does not currently own the trademark, but the intent of both Oracle and the ASF is that the trademark will be transferred to the ASF once the appropriate legal paperwork is completed. I presume, and will follow up, to ensure this includes the graphical logo with the seagulls. Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of "OpenOffice.org" or the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US? - Shane Curcuru VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ For those interested: http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78581289 http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77021413 Hi I found it in the E.U. database, look like it's registered (with the logo). You can check there searching "openoffice" (can't paste result url..) : http://tmview.europa.eu/tmview/basicSearch.html http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic I've got the BOPI for France if you're interested in. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding and Steering Committee member of The Document Foundation - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote: > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > ...snip... >> >> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? > > ...snip... > > The ASF has a recorded Software Grant that includes the trademark along with > a specific list of source code files. > > I have not yet seen the specific grant of the trademark itself at the ASF > yet (i.e. legal documents officially transferring ownership within the USPTO > here in the US). > > As best I understand, the ASF does not currently own the trademark, but the > intent of both Oracle and the ASF is that the trademark will be transferred > to the ASF once the appropriate legal paperwork is completed. I presume, > and will follow up, to ensure this includes the graphical logo with the > seagulls. > > Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of "OpenOffice.org" or > the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US? > > - Shane Curcuru > VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ > > For those interested: > http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78581289 > http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77021413 > Hi I found it in the E.U. database, look like it's registered (with the logo). You can check there searching "openoffice" (can't paste result url..) : http://tmview.europa.eu/tmview/basicSearch.html http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic Julien - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: ...snip... * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? ...snip... The ASF has a recorded Software Grant that includes the trademark along with a specific list of source code files. I have not yet seen the specific grant of the trademark itself at the ASF yet (i.e. legal documents officially transferring ownership within the USPTO here in the US). As best I understand, the ASF does not currently own the trademark, but the intent of both Oracle and the ASF is that the trademark will be transferred to the ASF once the appropriate legal paperwork is completed. I presume, and will follow up, to ensure this includes the graphical logo with the seagulls. Question: is anyone here aware of any registrations of "OpenOffice.org" or the logo or other related marks in other countries besides the US? - Shane Curcuru VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ For those interested: http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78581289 http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77021413 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On Jun 1, 2011, at 10:58 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote: > On 6/1/2011 8:41 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: >> >> My questions then are absolutely pragmatic and relate—hence the to post—to >> issues not so far discussed: >> >> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? >> * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good purposes. We >> grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems to do that more >> efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership—if?—the situation will >> naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that. > > If the grant is accepted, AIUI, yes TM transfer would be expected. > The trademark xfer is part of the grant. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 21:41, Louis Suarez-Potts > wrote: >> >> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? > > [snip] I'm sure our legal folks can get that > cleared up, should OOo be accepted into the Incubator, as part of the > regular incubation process. +1 - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On 6/1/2011 8:41 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > > My questions then are absolutely pragmatic and relate—hence the to post—to > issues not so far discussed: > > * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? > * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good purposes. We > grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems to do that more > efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership—if?—the situation will > naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that. If the grant is accepted, AIUI, yes TM transfer would be expected. Please review http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ for how such things are handled. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On 2011-06-02, at 01:02 , robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote: > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 06/01/2011 09:41:08 > PM: > >> >> * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? >> * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good >> purposes. We grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems >> to do that more efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership— >> if?—the situation will naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that. >> > > Hi Louis, I'm glad to hear from you. > > If I understand your question correctly, we really need to understand > three things: > > 1) What things did OpenOffice derivative projects do with the > OpenOffice.org trademark when Sun/Oracle owned the trademark, things that > we want to perpetuate under Apache? Derivative projects has legal meaning. In the case of those which Sun or Oracle owned, then it hardly matters. In the case of IBM's Symphony, you tell me. In the case of others: again, if there were special agreements between Sun/Oracle and the contracting party, then the special agreement speaks for itself. My question related to the common allowance of OpenOffice.org trademark use. Example: you want to declare that you use OpenOffice.org and so ask us (OOo) if you can paste the trademarked logo on your Web site. Well, in the old days—yesterday? Today?—you'd fill in a form found on the OOo site and probably be granted permission, by Oracle. Well. That's the problem: By Whom, now? As Greg pointed out, these be early days and though the latter days will show clearer ways, for now, it's kind of murky. > > and > > 2) In the ordinarily case, what use of Apache project related trademarks > are allowed to other projects/products based on Apache project code? > > and > > 3) What do we do if 1 and 2 conflict, e.g., if Sun/Oracle were more > permissive than Apache is. I'm interested in expanding the market for ODF and resolving anxieties the community and ecosystem (not much of a difference) may have. I'm also really interested in ensuring that users are not surprised by faux versions of code produced via the New Order :-) and calling itself "OpenOffice.org'. My impression is that if it comes from the OpenOffice.org site, as at present, then more or less status quo: OOo continues to police its identity. But….. > > > I think this needs to start with understanding #1. For example, did > anyone historically have a legitimate need to rebuild/repackage OpenOffice > outside of the Apache project and still call it "OpenOffice" (unadorned)? > My gut feeling is that would be dangerous. > nod. > >> * Similarly, OOo is more than a developer community; it's also a >> shifting set of globally dispersed ecosystems built around the >> primary application and concerned with the usual open source >> matters—support, education, training, services, migration, etc. I've >> worked hard to help set many of these up, and to establish the >> ecosystems, so that there is a real market for the ODF and OOo, as >> well as its relatives. What now? >> > > I've tried to give a sense of the richness of this in the "community" > section of the proposal on the wiki. I think you will be able to improve > it, based on your experience. But we probably don't need a tome on it. > > But to your question, I think the ideal solution is to attract the right > people. This is easier and more effective than recreating an ecosystem. > And to attract the right people we need to show them how working in Apache > can make them more effective. > > There are also some technical things we can do to make this easier, in > terms of packaging, extension points, etc. And as was discussed earlier > in the thread, the Apache 2.0 license encourages reuse and sharing, and > thus facilitates the kind of ecosystem we want. > >> Finally, I'll call a special OpenOffice.org Community Council (what >> is left of it, if any) to go over the quite significant (as in >> totally tectonic) change. We—the OOo community, basically—really do >> want and even need to understand the Quo of the Vadis: what we are >> doing henceforth, where we are going. >> >> > > Excellent. I look forward to hearing how that meeting goes. If. > > -Rob best Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 06/01/2011 09:41:08 PM: > > * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? > * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good > purposes. We grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems > to do that more efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership— > if?—the situation will naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that. > Hi Louis, I'm glad to hear from you. If I understand your question correctly, we really need to understand three things: 1) What things did OpenOffice derivative projects do with the OpenOffice.org trademark when Sun/Oracle owned the trademark, things that we want to perpetuate under Apache? and 2) In the ordinarily case, what use of Apache project related trademarks are allowed to other projects/products based on Apache project code? and 3) What do we do if 1 and 2 conflict, e.g., if Sun/Oracle were more permissive than Apache is. I think this needs to start with understanding #1. For example, did anyone historically have a legitimate need to rebuild/repackage OpenOffice outside of the Apache project and still call it "OpenOffice" (unadorned)? My gut feeling is that would be dangerous. > * Similarly, OOo is more than a developer community; it's also a > shifting set of globally dispersed ecosystems built around the > primary application and concerned with the usual open source > matters—support, education, training, services, migration, etc. I've > worked hard to help set many of these up, and to establish the > ecosystems, so that there is a real market for the ODF and OOo, as > well as its relatives. What now? > I've tried to give a sense of the richness of this in the "community" section of the proposal on the wiki. I think you will be able to improve it, based on your experience. But we probably don't need a tome on it. But to your question, I think the ideal solution is to attract the right people. This is easier and more effective than recreating an ecosystem. And to attract the right people we need to show them how working in Apache can make them more effective. There are also some technical things we can do to make this easier, in terms of packaging, extension points, etc. And as was discussed earlier in the thread, the Apache 2.0 license encourages reuse and sharing, and thus facilitates the kind of ecosystem we want. > Finally, I'll call a special OpenOffice.org Community Council (what > is left of it, if any) to go over the quite significant (as in > totally tectonic) change. We—the OOo community, basically—really do > want and even need to understand the Quo of the Vadis: what we are > doing henceforth, where we are going. > > Excellent. I look forward to hearing how that meeting goes. -Rob
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 21:41, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > > On 2011-06-01, at 20:18 , Ross Gardler wrote: > >> [cc'ing Italo and Louis hopefully they have joined the incubator list >> already, but just in case] > > Thanks. I actually have already joined it. > So, to the list: Wave of hand signifying hello! Hey, Louis ... been a while :-) >... > My questions then are absolutely pragmatic and relate—hence the to post—to > issues not so far discussed: > > * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? Not yet, but it looks like we have the rights to use it. If OOo graduates from the Incubator, then I believe we'd want to ask for a formal transfer (eg. with the USPTO and others) to the Foundation. I guess we could do it beforehand, to unburden it from Oracle, even if we ended up not using it and transferring it to another 501(c)3. The language in the grant is a bit unclear to me, so my best answer is "yeah, it looks like we can use it, and could do a formal transfer tho that hasn't happened (yet)." I'm sure our legal folks can get that cleared up, should OOo be accepted into the Incubator, as part of the regular incubation process. Note that there is another question of whether and how the ASF would use the mark. The community might want to call it "Apache Office", for all I know, and the OOo trademark wouldn't be useful. (tho it seems a terrible shame given its recognition and goodwill) > * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good purposes. We > grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems to do that more > efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership—if?—the situation will > naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that. As above, I believe we'd have to get that cleared up during incubation. I believe Oracle's *intent* is to transfer it to the ASF. > * Similarly, OOo is more than a developer community; it's also a shifting set > of globally dispersed ecosystems built around the primary application and > concerned with the usual open source matters—support, education, training, > services, migration, etc. I've worked hard to help set many of these up, and > to establish the ecosystems, so that there is a real market for the ODF and > OOo, as well as its relatives. What now? These kinds of things are for the community. The ASF itself doesn't really care, to be honest :-) Most ASF communities do have ecosystems like this, but the Foundation doesn't really involve itself in that. I think what I'm trying to say, is that it doesn't really have to change. >... Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
On 2011-06-01, at 20:18 , Ross Gardler wrote: > [cc'ing Italo and Louis hopefully they have joined the incubator list > already, but just in case] Thanks. I actually have already joined it. So, to the list: Wave of hand signifying hello! And, again, delighted this is moving ahead transparently and openly. And I would also underscore that with the proposed placement of OOo core (and more?) development within Apache, that a lot of the old problems and procedural issues should evaporate as no longer being relevant. My questions then are absolutely pragmatic and relate—hence the to post—to issues not so far discussed: * Apache Foundation owns the trademark to OOo? * We at OOo receive lots of requests to use it for mostly good purposes. We grant these, with minimal fuss and have set up systems to do that more efficiently. With the change in trademark ownership—if?—the situation will naturally change. I'd like some clarity on that. * Similarly, OOo is more than a developer community; it's also a shifting set of globally dispersed ecosystems built around the primary application and concerned with the usual open source matters—support, education, training, services, migration, etc. I've worked hard to help set many of these up, and to establish the ecosystems, so that there is a real market for the ODF and OOo, as well as its relatives. What now? Finally, I'll call a special OpenOffice.org Community Council (what is left of it, if any) to go over the quite significant (as in totally tectonic) change. We—the OOo community, basically—really do want and even need to understand the Quo of the Vadis: what we are doing henceforth, where we are going. > > On 02/06/2011 01:01, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> More info re TDF and LOo >> - Forwarded message from Italo >> Vignoli - >> >> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:16:53 +0200 >> From: Italo Vignoli >> Reply-To: italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org >> To: Jim Jagielski >> CC: Louis Suarez-Potts, >> Sam Ruby >> Subject: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF > > ... > >> I will also read carefully the proposal, and make my comments. I >> understand that it might still be improved (correct me if I am wrong, >> because I have had just a few minutes for going through it, and to me >> it looks incomplete or too succinct in some areas). > > I agree with this and have asked some questions on the general@incubator. The > answers seem perfectly reasonable to me (see below to a link to the main > response and the rest of the thread). However, I'm not a part of the TDF or > LOo communities so please bring your own, more relevant, questions and > suggestions to the incubator list. > >> OOo is a very large project with a very large and diverse community. >> In my opinion, it would be a pity to lose a percentage of this >> community because the proposal is not inclusive enough). > > +1 > > It's worth reading Robs reply to my question about the limited initial > committer list. I felt it indicated a level of inclusion that is not yet > fully represented in the proposal (other than this is the ASF and thus by > definition inclusive). He said: > > "We could have put a much longer list of IBM names on this list, developers > familiar with the code base via their work on Lotus Symphony (which is our > OpenOffice based project). But then we could have been criticized for the > proposal being too dominated by IBM. It is clearly our intent to grow this > project, both from our corporate developers, but also by recruiting new > members to the project, including developers from related open source > projects (see my previous note)" See > http://markmail.org/message/qxqplq7rq6nuxorq (the previous note referred to > is http://markmail.org/message/esgluawloid64o6r) > > It would be great if you could work with Rob to make the proposal reflect > this intention and is, as far as possible, accommodating to the TDF and LOo > communities ... > >> I will be away until Sunday, but I will read emails every now and then. > > ... when you get back :-) > > Ross > best Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
[cc'ing Italo and Louis hopefully they have joined the incubator list already, but just in case] On 02/06/2011 01:01, Jim Jagielski wrote: More info re TDF and LOo - Forwarded message from Italo Vignoli - Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:16:53 +0200 From: Italo Vignoli Reply-To: italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org To: Jim Jagielski CC: Louis Suarez-Potts, Sam Ruby Subject: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF ... I will also read carefully the proposal, and make my comments. I understand that it might still be improved (correct me if I am wrong, because I have had just a few minutes for going through it, and to me it looks incomplete or too succinct in some areas). I agree with this and have asked some questions on the general@incubator. The answers seem perfectly reasonable to me (see below to a link to the main response and the rest of the thread). However, I'm not a part of the TDF or LOo communities so please bring your own, more relevant, questions and suggestions to the incubator list. OOo is a very large project with a very large and diverse community. In my opinion, it would be a pity to lose a percentage of this community because the proposal is not inclusive enough). +1 It's worth reading Robs reply to my question about the limited initial committer list. I felt it indicated a level of inclusion that is not yet fully represented in the proposal (other than this is the ASF and thus by definition inclusive). He said: "We could have put a much longer list of IBM names on this list, developers familiar with the code base via their work on Lotus Symphony (which is our OpenOffice based project). But then we could have been criticized for the proposal being too dominated by IBM. It is clearly our intent to grow this project, both from our corporate developers, but also by recruiting new members to the project, including developers from related open source projects (see my previous note)" See http://markmail.org/message/qxqplq7rq6nuxorq (the previous note referred to is http://markmail.org/message/esgluawloid64o6r) It would be great if you could work with Rob to make the proposal reflect this intention and is, as far as possible, accommodating to the TDF and LOo communities ... I will be away until Sunday, but I will read emails every now and then. ... when you get back :-) Ross - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF]
More info re TDF and LOo - Forwarded message from Italo Vignoli - Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:16:53 +0200 From: Italo Vignoli Reply-To: italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org To: Jim Jagielski CC: Louis Suarez-Potts , Sam Ruby Subject: Re: OpenOffice and the ASF On 6/1/11 8:35 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > BTW: would it be OK if I shared this email on the ASF > general@incubator list...? Again, just to be open and > public from the start. I don't see any problem on my side. I will share the link on our Steering Discuss mailing list, which is accessed by the majority of our contributors, asking for comments. I imagine that ASF is interested in knowing more about the opinions of TDF members. I will also read carefully the proposal, and make my comments. I understand that it might still be improved (correct me if I am wrong, because I have had just a few minutes for going through it, and to me it looks incomplete or too succinct in some areas). OOo is a very large project with a very large and diverse community. In my opinion, it would be a pity to lose a percentage of this community because the proposal is not inclusive enough). I will be away until Sunday, but I will read emails every now and then. By the way, I have tried to subscribe to the incubator mailing list, but I am not getting the confirmation email. Ciao, Italo -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation email italo.vign...@documentfoundation.org phone +39.348.5653829 - VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com - End forwarded message - -- === Jim Jagielski [|] j...@jagunet.com [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war" ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
