Re: New team for Dari (prs)
Of course using a global name is better. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
2008/6/25 Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > What about the case like Arabic where we have one common "ar" locale > where all translations reside, and several "ar_XX" locales per country > to allow different locale settings. If Dari is spoken in different > countries, it might not be a good idea to force all Dari speakers to > use one single locale. This is a good comparison, but you don't know how arbitrary ISO 639-3 is. Let's see what ISO 639-3 has for Arabic: 30 language codes! (From http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=ara) * Algerian Arabic [arq] * Algerian Saharan Arabic [aao] * Babalia Creole Arabic [bbz] * Baharna Arabic [abv] * Chadian Arabic [shu] * Cypriot Arabic [acy] * Dhofari Arabic [adf] * Eastern Egyptian Bedawi Arabic [avl] * Egyptian Arabic [arz] * Gulf Arabic [afb] * Hadrami Arabic [ayh] * Hijazi Arabic [acw] * Libyan Arabic [ayl] * Mesopotamian Arabic [acm] * Moroccan Arabic [ary] * Najdi Arabic [ars] * North Levantine Arabic [apc] * North Mesopotamian Arabic [ayp] * Omani Arabic [acx] * Saidi Arabic [aec] * Sanaani Arabic [ayn] * Shihhi Arabic [ssh] * South Levantine Arabic [ajp] * Standard Arabic [arb] * Sudanese Arabic [apd] * Sudanese Creole Arabic [pga] * Ta'izzi-Adeni Arabic [acq] * Tajiki Arabic [abh] * Tunisian Arabic [aeb] * Uzbeki Arabic [auz] In GNU/Linux locales, we don't go and use "ary" or "ary_MA" instead of "ar_MA" for Moroccan Arabic simply since ISO 639-3 provides the code. We use ISO 639-1 codes whenever possible. Also, saying Dari is spoken in many countries is like saying Gulf Arabic is spoken in many countries. Yes, it is, but Qatari Arabic should not use "afb" or "afb_QA": it should use "ar_QA". Best, Roozbeh ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Note that ISO639-3 codes are more of scholarly interest. They definitely are. And they are based on a very controversial source, Ethnologue. For some of the controversies around Ethnologue, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnologue Roozbeh ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Tommi Vainikainen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_%28Persian%29) > this Dari language is also spoken in Pakistan, Tajikistan and > Turkmenistan. Should Dari speakers in those countries use country code > _AF as their locale? Isn't such usage problematic in many ways? Not at all, if we distinguish "spoken" languages with "written" languages. In Tajikistan, they write the language in Cyrillic, and use the "tg" ISO 639-1 code. In Pakistan and Turkmenistan, they rarely write in the language, and when they do, they either use the Iranian orthography or the Afghan one. We translate computer user interfaces to written languages, not spoken languages. > Therefore I argue that technically it is better to use three letter > language codes if ISO standard has assigned a separate code, because > then there is no disambiguity of using country codes etc. Let's say I am a Persian speaker living in the US. What should I use on my GNU/Linux computer when there is no fa_US? I would use fa_IR or fa_AF depending on my preference for the orthography, and then change other locale settings like LC_PAPER, the timezone, etc to use US measurements. Roozbeh ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 16:16 +0300, Khaled Hosny wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 08:43:07AM -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 08:07 +0300, Tommi Vainikainen wrote: > ... > > > According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_%28Persian%29) > > > this Dari language is also spoken in Pakistan, Tajikistan and > > > Turkmenistan. Should Dari speakers in those countries use country code > > > _AF as their locale? Isn't such usage problematic in many ways? > > > > > > Therefore I argue that technically it is better to use three letter > > > language codes if ISO standard has assigned a separate code, because > > > then there is no disambiguity of using country codes etc. > > > > Yeah, like, because English is spoken in so many countries, why do we > > have en_US, en_CA, en_UK, ...? > > What about the case like Arabic where we have one common "ar" locale > where all translations reside, and several "ar_XX" locales per country > to allow different locale settings. If Dari is spoken in different > countries, it might not be a good idea to force all Dari speakers to > use one single locale. Sure, but I'm not sure that the Afghan and Tajik use the exact same language. Both are part of a family called Dari, aka Eastern Persian, as opposed to Iranian Persian which is called Western Persian. Others prefer to call the language used in Tajikistan Tajik, to distinguish it from the Afghan version. Both are fairly recognizable by a native of Iran. And Iranian Persian is recognizable by both Afghans and Tajiks. The root language is really "fa", as Roozbeh suggested. Quoting [1]: fas is the ISO 639-3 language code for Persian. Its ISO 639-1 code is fa. There are 2 individual language codes assigned: 1. prs — Dari Persian 2. pes — Western Persian So, should we use change the "fa" translations to "pes"? No. Note that ISO639-3 codes are more of scholarly interest. Also according to [2], both "prd" and "prs" are ISO639-3 language codes for "Persian (Dari)". No idea what the difference is. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639_macrolanguage > Regards, > Khaled -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 08:43:07AM -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 08:07 +0300, Tommi Vainikainen wrote: ... > > According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_%28Persian%29) > > this Dari language is also spoken in Pakistan, Tajikistan and > > Turkmenistan. Should Dari speakers in those countries use country code > > _AF as their locale? Isn't such usage problematic in many ways? > > > > Therefore I argue that technically it is better to use three letter > > language codes if ISO standard has assigned a separate code, because > > then there is no disambiguity of using country codes etc. > > Yeah, like, because English is spoken in so many countries, why do we > have en_US, en_CA, en_UK, ...? What about the case like Arabic where we have one common "ar" locale where all translations reside, and several "ar_XX" locales per country to allow different locale settings. If Dari is spoken in different countries, it might not be a good idea to force all Dari speakers to use one single locale. Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 08:07 +0300, Tommi Vainikainen wrote: > "Roozbeh Pournader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: > >> > >> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=prs > >> http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=prs > > > > When we can use ISO 639-1 language codes, we should use those. ISO > > 639-3 should only be used when a code does not exist. > > At least such "should" is not documented on GNOME's wiki. Any language needs to get a libc locale first, and these restrictions are enforced there. > > Locale projects, including Unicode CLDR, use fa_AF for Dari. For > > example, see here: > > According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_%28Persian%29) > this Dari language is also spoken in Pakistan, Tajikistan and > Turkmenistan. Should Dari speakers in those countries use country code > _AF as their locale? Isn't such usage problematic in many ways? > > Therefore I argue that technically it is better to use three letter > language codes if ISO standard has assigned a separate code, because > then there is no disambiguity of using country codes etc. Yeah, like, because English is spoken in so many countries, why do we have en_US, en_CA, en_UK, ...? -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
Hi i agree with *Tommi, we should use a general name that can be used for more countries,that accepted by afghans iranians and tajiks and everybody who speak farsi. fa_af limits us to afghanestan.* On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Khalid Amiri Amarkhail < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Roozbeh Pournader wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> >>> My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: >>> >>> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=prs >>> http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=prs >>> >>> >> >> When we can use ISO 639-1 language codes, we should use those. ISO >> 639-3 should only be used when a code does not exist. >> >> Locale projects, including Unicode CLDR, use fa_AF for Dari. For >> example, see here: >> >> http://unicode.org/cldr/apps/survey?_=fa_AF&x=languages >> >> The list of languages mentioned, for example, shows Afghan names of >> languages, like "hespaanavi" for Spanish (vs. Iranian Persian >> "espaaniaayi") and "dari" for Persian (vs. Iranian Persian "faarsi"). >> >> Same is true about the "Computer Locale Requirements for Afghanistan" >> project, commissioned by the United Nations Development Programme and >> approved by Afghanistan's Ministry of Communications, which recommends >> the code fa_AF again (disclaimer: I'm a co-author of that report): >> >> http://www.evertype.com/standards/af/ >> >> Using fa_AF, your users will also have the benefit of seeing Iranian >> Persian translations when a Dari translation is not yet available, >> which helps the users a lot, as Iranian Persian is almost always >> legible to Afghans. >> >> Good luck, >> Roozbeh >> ___ >> gnome-i18n mailing list >> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >> >> > Salaam, > > I support what Roozbeh says, cause Dari is not just a language but an > official language in Afghanistan (The only country where Dari is an official > language) so fa_AF is I think better than prs. > > Regards, > > -Khalid > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=prs http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=prs When we can use ISO 639-1 language codes, we should use those. ISO 639-3 should only be used when a code does not exist. Locale projects, including Unicode CLDR, use fa_AF for Dari. For example, see here: http://unicode.org/cldr/apps/survey?_=fa_AF&x=languages The list of languages mentioned, for example, shows Afghan names of languages, like "hespaanavi" for Spanish (vs. Iranian Persian "espaaniaayi") and "dari" for Persian (vs. Iranian Persian "faarsi"). Same is true about the "Computer Locale Requirements for Afghanistan" project, commissioned by the United Nations Development Programme and approved by Afghanistan's Ministry of Communications, which recommends the code fa_AF again (disclaimer: I'm a co-author of that report): http://www.evertype.com/standards/af/ Using fa_AF, your users will also have the benefit of seeing Iranian Persian translations when a Dari translation is not yet available, which helps the users a lot, as Iranian Persian is almost always legible to Afghans. Good luck, Roozbeh ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n Salaam, I support what Roozbeh says, cause Dari is not just a language but an official language in Afghanistan (The only country where Dari is an official language) so fa_AF is I think better than prs. Regards, -Khalid ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
"Roozbeh Pournader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: >> >> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=prs >> http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=prs > > When we can use ISO 639-1 language codes, we should use those. ISO > 639-3 should only be used when a code does not exist. At least such "should" is not documented on GNOME's wiki. > Locale projects, including Unicode CLDR, use fa_AF for Dari. For > example, see here: According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari_%28Persian%29) this Dari language is also spoken in Pakistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan. Should Dari speakers in those countries use country code _AF as their locale? Isn't such usage problematic in many ways? Therefore I argue that technically it is better to use three letter language codes if ISO standard has assigned a separate code, because then there is no disambiguity of using country codes etc. -- Tommi Vainikainen ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: > > http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=prs > http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=prs When we can use ISO 639-1 language codes, we should use those. ISO 639-3 should only be used when a code does not exist. Locale projects, including Unicode CLDR, use fa_AF for Dari. For example, see here: http://unicode.org/cldr/apps/survey?_=fa_AF&x=languages The list of languages mentioned, for example, shows Afghan names of languages, like "hespaanavi" for Spanish (vs. Iranian Persian "espaaniaayi") and "dari" for Persian (vs. Iranian Persian "faarsi"). Same is true about the "Computer Locale Requirements for Afghanistan" project, commissioned by the United Nations Development Programme and approved by Afghanistan's Ministry of Communications, which recommends the code fa_AF again (disclaimer: I'm a co-author of that report): http://www.evertype.com/standards/af/ Using fa_AF, your users will also have the benefit of seeing Iranian Persian translations when a Dari translation is not yet available, which helps the users a lot, as Iranian Persian is almost always legible to Afghans. Good luck, Roozbeh ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
On Mon, 2008-06-23 at 21:49 -0700, Mazdak Kiani wrote: > My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: Then please tell us who speaks this language and where. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
My language ISO 639-3 code is prs: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=prs http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=prs --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Roozbeh Pournader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Roozbeh Pournader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: New team for Dari (prs) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], gnome-i18n@gnome.org Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 5:57 PM I object. The language code to be used for Dari is fa_AF, not prs. Best, Roozbeh 2008/6/21 Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > One thing that I forgot: my language's iso code is: prs > > --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: New team for Dari (prs) > To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org > Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 12:43 PM > > Hi everyone, > > This is an announcement for new team of Dari language. > > Full name: Mazdak Kiani > Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Bugzilla account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > English name of language: Dari > Native name of language: دری > > And finally about mailing list and web page: There is no team yet, I am > trying to gather people for a new team, and will create a page+list as soon > as possible. > > I hope these be sufficient. > > Best, > Mazdak Kiani > > > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
I object. The language code to be used for Dari is fa_AF, not prs. Best, Roozbeh 2008/6/21 Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > One thing that I forgot: my language's iso code is: prs > > --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: New team for Dari (prs) > To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org > Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 12:43 PM > > Hi everyone, > > This is an announcement for new team of Dari language. > > Full name: Mazdak Kiani > Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Bugzilla account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > English name of language: Dari > Native name of language: دری > > And finally about mailing list and web page: There is no team yet, I am > trying to gather people for a new team, and will create a page+list as soon > as possible. > > I hope these be sufficient. > > Best, > Mazdak Kiani > > > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Dari (prs)
One thing that I forgot: my language's iso code is: prs --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Mazdak Kiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: New team for Dari (prs) To: gnome-i18n@gnome.org Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 12:43 PM Hi everyone, This is an announcement for new team of Dari language. Full name: Mazdak Kiani Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bugzilla account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] English name of language: Dari Native name of language: دری And finally about mailing list and web page: There is no team yet, I am trying to gather people for a new team, and will create a page+list as soon as possible. I hope these be sufficient. Best, Mazdak Kiani ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
New team for Dari (prs)
Hi everyone, This is an announcement for new team of Dari language. Full name: Mazdak Kiani Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bugzilla account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] English name of language: Dari Native name of language: دری And finally about mailing list and web page: There is no team yet, I am trying to gather people for a new team, and will create a page+list as soon as possible. I hope these be sufficient. Best, Mazdak Kiani ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
