Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[R Losey]

I was sure someone else would say this.

My credit card balance is positive, not negative - as I add charges, the
positive total goes up... as I make payments, the total goes down. I'm
guessing that all of your charges are reversed.

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 2:46 PM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Are you sure you have all your CC Charges entered correctly?
> It sounds like something is being entered backwards.
>
> -derek
>
> On Sat, March 4, 2023 2:28 pm, Custom Shots wrote:
> > That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance in
> > my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a
> > payment
> > of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The negative balance
> > should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the transaction correctly
> > withdraws $200 from cash.
> > I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed as
> > red negative numbers.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
> >> > I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> >> this
> >> > has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
> >> to
> >> my
> >> > credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
> >> decreasing.
> >> > Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
> >> ID:
> >> > 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> >> entry
> >> > transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
> >>
> >> Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
> >> or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
> >> correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
> >> account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
> >> someone is a debit to cash.)
> >>
> >> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
> >> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
> >> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
> >> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
> >> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
> >> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
> >>
> >> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
> >> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
> >> of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
> >> as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
> >> account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
> >> $200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
> >> the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
> >> balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
> >> Accounts".
> >>
> >> Stan Brown
> >> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> >> https://BrownMath.com
> >> ___
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> >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> >>
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>
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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[GNC] Budget report problem

[Ismael Smajli]

 

Hello

 

I use BUDGET   &   BUDGET REPORT in GNUCASH ver. 4.13.

 

For my BUDGET REPORT I   have   SHOW BUDGET, SHOW ACTUAL  &  SHOW DIFFERENCE in 
the display settings enabled.

 

Problem:

In the   row   of one of my expense account (Service Charges) the report shows  
 in the columns 'Act'   figures. A   small amount of   expenses   for which I 
cannot   find any corresponding record/split in the respective month.

 

When I run a TRANSACTION REPORT for the respective month and filter for the 
account   'Service Charges'   (I choose SELECT CHILDREN and choose SHOW HIDDEN 
ACCOUNTS) to ensure that I have selected all accounts under Service Charges.

However this   TRANSACTION REPORT   is empty. "No transactions were found that 
match the time interval and account selection specified in the Options panel."

Is this a BUG in the BUDGET REPORT ?

  Regards
  Ismael

 
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[David Carlson]

Taking into consideration the advice given by others here, now try changing
Edit>Preferences>Accounts>Reverse Balanced Accounts to None from Credit.
This will change the running balance in your credit card accounts to the
red color that you prefer, but it will not change the text color, signs or
columns of the amounts in the transactions.



On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 4:14 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> > I would take Stan's advice and change, at least temporarily, to the
> formal
> > accounting labels. The logic implemented in GnuCash to keep to the
> accounting
> > formalism is most clearly expressed in that format.
>
> Yes --- those new to double entry bookkeeping can be easily confused by
> the supposedly user friendly column titles. Gnucash is showing ledger
> accounts in three column format (pretty much a 20th Century change form
> the older two column format with no running balance kept. The three
> columns are debit, credit, and running balance.
>
> > A purchase made via  a Credit card account (a liability)  will have a an
> entry
> > with a split crediting that account with the other split a debit entry
> to an
>
> You can confuse folks new to double entry bookkeeping when you use a
> term like "split" that way. All transactions have AT LEAST two accounts
> affected, a debit and a credit. Reserve "split" for when there are more
> than two so either the debit side, the credit side, or both are split
> into more than one account on that side of the transaction.
>
> OK, back to the original problem. The transaction represented by a
> payment on a credit card would be a debit to the credit card account and
> a credit to the account from which the payment was made. That would
> USUALLY be a checking account, but notice that I am not assuming that <<
> the transaction MIGHT be a "balance transfer" between two credit cards >>
>
> I strongly suggest you choose options like "show as negative" only once
> you are experienced with double entry bookkeeping. Double entry
> bookkeeping evolved before European math accepted negative numbers. The
> "senses" are debit and credit (not positive and negative) and that's not
> the same. Instead, the different fundamental account types have either a
> debit or credit natural balance. If an account whose natural balance is
> debit has a credit balance that's like a negative but note that the
> reverse is true. For an account whose natural balance is credit, a debit
> balance would be like negative. In other words, can;t associate debit
> with plus and credit with minus.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Michael or Penny Novack]

I would take Stan's advice and change, at least temporarily, to the formal
accounting labels. The logic implemented in GnuCash to keep to the accounting
formalism is most clearly expressed in that format.


Yes --- those new to double entry bookkeeping can be easily confused by 
the supposedly user friendly column titles. Gnucash is showing ledger 
accounts in three column format (pretty much a 20th Century change form 
the older two column format with no running balance kept. The three 
columns are debit, credit, and running balance.



A purchase made via  a Credit card account (a liability)  will have a an entry
with a split crediting that account with the other split a debit entry to an


You can confuse folks new to double entry bookkeeping when you use a 
term like "split" that way. All transactions have AT LEAST two accounts 
affected, a debit and a credit. Reserve "split" for when there are more 
than two so either the debit side, the credit side, or both are split 
into more than one account on that side of the transaction.


OK, back to the original problem. The transaction represented by a 
payment on a credit card would be a debit to the credit card account and 
a credit to the account from which the payment was made. That would 
USUALLY be a checking account, but notice that I am not assuming that << 
the transaction MIGHT be a "balance transfer" between two credit cards >>


I strongly suggest you choose options like "show as negative" only once 
you are experienced with double entry bookkeeping. Double entry 
bookkeeping evolved before European math accepted negative numbers. The 
"senses" are debit and credit (not positive and negative) and that's not 
the same. Instead, the different fundamental account types have either a 
debit or credit natural balance. If an account whose natural balance is 
debit has a credit balance that's like a negative but note that the 
reverse is true. For an account whose natural balance is credit, a debit 
balance would be like negative. In other words, can;t associate debit 
with plus and credit with minus.


Michael D Novack



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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[David Cousens]

I would take Stan's advice and change, at least temporarily, to the formal
accounting labels. The logic implemented in GnuCash to keep to the accounting
formalism is most clearly expressed in that format.

A purchase made via  a Credit card account (a liability)  will have a an entry
with a split crediting that account with the other split a debit entry to an
asset account(capital purchase) or an expense account. This will increase the
(positive) balance of the account.

A payment to the credit account should be a credit entry split to your bank
account and a debit entry split to the credit card account. This will decrease
the credit card account (positive) balance. Unless you overpay it, your credit
card should not have a negative balance.

Anything else will then likely be an incorrect transaction.

David Cousens




On Sat, 2023-03-04 at 11:26 -0700, Custom Shots wrote:
> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Derek Atkins]

Are you sure you have all your CC Charges entered correctly?
It sounds like something is being entered backwards.

-derek

On Sat, March 4, 2023 2:28 pm, Custom Shots wrote:
> That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance in
> my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a
> payment
> of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The negative balance
> should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the transaction correctly
> withdraws $200 from cash.
> I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed as
> red negative numbers.
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown 
> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
>> > I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
>> this
>> > has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction
>> to
>> my
>> > credit card account the negative balance increases instead of
>> decreasing.
>> > Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build
>> ID:
>> > 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
>> entry
>> > transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
>>
>> Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
>> or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
>> correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
>> account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
>> someone is a debit to cash.)
>>
>> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
>> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
>> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
>> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
>> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
>> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
>>
>> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
>> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
>> of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
>> as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
>> account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
>> $200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
>> the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
>> balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
>> Accounts".
>>
>> Stan Brown
>> Tehachapi, CA, USA
>> https://BrownMath.com
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Stan Brown]

> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown  > wrote:
> 
[snip]
> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
> 
> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
> of the expected minus $135? ...

On 2023-03-04 11:28, Custom Shots wrote:
> That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance
> in my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a
> payment of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The
> negative balance should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the
> transaction correctly withdraws $200 from cash.
> I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed
> as red negative numbers.

In that case, I don't have anything else to offer. I'll look forward to
seeing how this is resolved. I think it's unlikely to be a bug -- that
would have been caught long ago -- but I can't think of another explanation.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

That's exactly what I'm saying.  I owe $500. That's a negative balance in
my credit card account, showing in red with a minus sign. I enter a payment
of $200 and the negative balance increases to -$700. The negative balance
should decrease to -$300. Yet the other half of the transaction correctly
withdraws $200 from cash.
I did play with the settings when I decided I liked seeing what I owed as
red negative numbers.

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 11:54 AM Stan Brown  wrote:

> On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
> > I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and
> this
> > has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to
> my
> > credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
> > Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
> > 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double
> entry
> > transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
>
> Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
> or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
> correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
> account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
> someone is a debit to cash.)
>
> You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
> Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
> data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
> those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
> "Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
> must have had some good reason for those other settings.)
>
> Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
> minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
> of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
> as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
> account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
> $200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
> the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
> balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
> Accounts".
>
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Stan Brown]

On 2023-03-04 10:26, Custom Shots wrote:
> I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
> has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
> credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
> Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
> 4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
> transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.

Presumably by "correctly" you mean that the positive balance of the cash
or checking account goes down? If so, I agree with you that it's
correct: a credit to an asset account reduces the balance of that
account. (Paying someone is a credit to cash, and getting money from
someone is a debit to cash.)

To balance that credit, the other side of the transaction, the part
applied to your credit-card account, must be a debit. The credit-card
account is a liability, so a debit reduces its balance. If the balance
is already negative, then a debit will make it more negative.

You might take a look in Edit » Preferences » Accounts, under "Reverse
Balanced Accounts". I can't remember the details from when I set up my
data file a few years ago, but I do remember that on experimenting with
those settings the only one that _didn't_ give nonsensical results was
"Credit accounts".  (I mean nonsensical to me; I'm sure the developers
must have had some good reason for those other settings.)

So you might experiment with that setting. (You might also consider
ticking the box to use "formal accounting labels". Some people like the
informal ones, some don't. The formal labels require you to know what a
debit and a credit are, but that's easily learned and then at least one
layer of obscurity is removed when diagnosing unexpected behavior.)

But I'm trying to work out what you're reporting, and I don't understand
it. You say the credit-card account was negative before you made the
payment, and then it "increased". That doesn't seem right -- normally a
credit-card account would be positive, being your liability, the amount
you owe. (But the "Reverse Balanced Accounts" setting I mentioned above
could change that.)

Are you saying something like: the balance on your Visa account was
minus $200, and you paid $65, and now the balance is minus $265 instead
of the expected minus $135? That would be wrong under any circumstances,
as far as I can understand. Or did you mean it literally that the
account balance "increases", since minus $135 is greater than minus
$200? If that's what you meant, then everything is correct except that
the credit-card account is showing a minus sign in front of correct
balances, and for that I'd definitely have a look at "Reverse Balanced
Accounts".

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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[GNC] credit account negative balance increases with payment

[Custom Shots]

I just noticed this. Something has changed. I keep 30 day backups and this
has been going on in all my backups. When I add a payment transaction to my
credit card account the negative balance increases instead of decreasing.
Any clues to what is happening? I am using GnuCash Version: 4.8 Build ID:
4.8a+(2021-09-28) on Ubuntu 2022.04.2. The second half of the double entry
transaction, the withdrawal from my checking account, works correctly.
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Re: [GNC] Using Plaid

[Steve Brown]

If you are referring to the file I store, it is the response from the
OFX server and doesn't contain credentials. 

If you are referring to the request, I'm using the keyring approach
referred to by Sherlock.

Steve

On Fri, 2023-03-03 at 09:43 -0600, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 04:20 Steve Brown  wrote:
> 
> > I've been using ofxget to download statements from Fidelity, Wells
> > Fargo and Truist for the last several months. I made a few changes
> > so
> > it writes to a file that I import to Gnucash.
> 
> 
> How do you use (wrap) the file to protect your credentials?
> 
> -Tom
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Re: [GNC] Hierarchy of accounts & multiple currencies

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 3/4/2023 4:19 AM, TimR via gnucash-user wrote:

I am a new user, having imported a QIF from Quicken. In the import process I
didn't follow the process thoroughly enough and I've ended up with a very
flat hierarchy of accounts.

1.  How do I go about editing the hierarchy of accounts?

  


This in turn also means that accounts that are not in the majority currency
(GBP) - such as USD or Kenya shillings - are creating false balances.

2.  What would you recommend as the best way to fix this?

1) You make one account the child of another (make it below in the 
hierarchy) by editing the account (under edit, you can select WHAT you 
want to edit and account is one of the choices). When looking at an 
account while under edit, one of the things you can do is assign a 
parent account (make the account you are editing a child of the other)


2) BEFORE looking at solutions, need to ask some questions about HOW you 
use the secondary currencies. Using it all the time? (many 
transactions?). Many transactions between the currencies? Or is it more 
the case that you have bank accounts in both, at any given time doing 
transactions in just one of them, and only rarely transferring funds 
between them. Also what are your reporting requirements with regard to 
these currencies?


Michael D Novack

PS --- Quicken isn't standard double entry bookkeeping. Importing your 
data from Quicken not going to be trivial because you probably somehow 
want to get "class" information translated to "account" specification. 
In other words, you can expect ex[port/import of data to be possible 
when moving data from another double entry app (say QuickBooks rather 
than Quicken)


    That means you might not want to export/import form  Quicken IF you 
still have Quicken available (to look at old data). You might instead 
opt to start new gnucash books using the equivalent of a Balance Sheet 
report out of Quicken (assuming Quicken can give you something like 
that. It is still relatively early in 2023 so if this were MY problem 
I'd likely choose this approach (assuming Quicken can give you a report 
of "all transactions since the start of 2023")



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Re: [GNC] Gnucash,org url is now working

[Ken Pyzik]

Yes -- just realized that when I entered into my browser it automatically went 
with the https://

You are correct -- the http:// goes to the generic/default apache page.  

Ken 

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On 
Behalf Of Fred Bone
Sent: Friday, March 3, 2023 8:53 AM
To: Derek Atkins 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Gnucash,org url is now working

On 03 March 2023 at 7:31, Derek Atkins said:

> Hi.
> Indeed, it does appear that www.gnucash.org lost its brain and, 
> although responding, is not the gnucash website.  I will notify Linas 
> to ask what's up.

What appears to be up is the loss of an automatic redirect from  
http://www.gnucash.org to  https://www.gnucash.org which, as this is clearly an 
Apache webserver, is a matter of one line in a .htaccess file.

The corresponding redirect for gnucash.org (without the www. prefix) is working.

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[GNC] Hierarchy of accounts & multiple currencies

[TimR via gnucash-user]

I am a new user, having imported a QIF from Quicken. In the import process I
didn't follow the process thoroughly enough and I've ended up with a very
flat hierarchy of accounts. 

1.  How do I go about editing the hierarchy of accounts?

 

This in turn also means that accounts that are not in the majority currency
(GBP) - such as USD or Kenya shillings - are creating false balances.

2.  What would you recommend as the best way to fix this?

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

Tim Raymond

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