Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can I use Haskell for web programming
On 1/23/06, Jared Updike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For haskell-fastcgi, my configure fails with cannot satisfy dependency cgi-any Google does not turn up any useful results for this. Which package will fix this dependency? I thought I just installed fastcgi from source but I'm not sure where it gets looked for by haskell-fastcgi... From the README: Requirements for building: - The cgi package from: http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~bringert/darcs/haskell-cgi/ -- Friendly, Lemmih ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Can I use Haskell for web programming
hsp can be run in two different modes. Running the full-blown version with runtime system will probably be hard on a professional site, you would have to convince them to install hsp. But if you can do without the fancier bits, in particular application-scoped data, you can run hsp pages as ordinary cgi scripts. Look in the HSPR.CGI.RunCGI module. /Niklas On 1/21/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They both look cool. Do you think I'll be able to find someone to host professional sites using those libraries? [], Maurício Sebastian Sylvan wrote: On 1/21/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Can I use Haskell to do what people do with, say, PHP? More and more I have the need for that, and I've been looking into Ruby on Rails. Do you thing Haskell could be a choice? Of course, I don't need something exactly like PHP (for instance, I don't care if I can't insert code in the middle of xhtml pages. If I have to generate everything from Haskell code, I would probably like it. Also, CGI can be a choice). But I need reasonable efficiency and to be able to find someone to host my site. What solutions do you suggest me? Take a look at WASH and HSP... http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~thiemann/WASH/ http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~d00nibro/hsp/ -- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] GHC integers pre-allocation
I believe that we statically allocate all ASCII chars, and Ints between -16 and +16. Have a look in ghc/rts/StgMiscClosures.cmm Simon From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Monique Monteiro Sent: 22 January 2006 23:26 To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: [Haskell-cafe] GHC integers pre-allocation Hi all, does anyone know if GHC implements any kind of pre-allocation of integers/caracteres ? If yes, which range of values does it use? Thanks in advance, Monique Monteiro ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Hashtable woes
Hello, This post is a about a tangential issue to the shootout, not the shootout itself. It concerns the lack of a fast mutable hashtable. If you have a good replacement for Data.Hashtable, I would be interested to know about it (and so would the wiki!). The shootout entry k-nucleotide is a good test of the hashtable provided by each of the languages: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=knucleotidelang=all Several of us are building a proposed entry on the wiki at http://haskell.org/hawiki/KnucleotideEntry where I have just posted a plea which I will paste below: On mutable data structures in Haskell This benchmark is completely bottlenecked by Data.Hashtable (in GHC 6.4.1) and this discussion is based on the assumption that I am using Hashtable optimally. I downloaded the GHD 0.17 compiler and the DMD entry to benchmark on my machine. The DMD entry uses the associative arrays built into the language: int[char[]] frequencies and places [WWW]second (runs in 3.0s). The winning entry is interesting, since the c-code does not have a hash table, and so it uses #include ../../Include/simple_hash.h which pulls in a dead simple, inline, string to int hashtable and runs in 2s. The entry below runs 16 slower than the DMD entry on my powerbook G4. Profiling shows the bottleneck. I downloaded simple_hash.h and shamelessly optimized it to replace Data.Hashtable for exactly this benchmark code. This sped up the proposed entry by a factor of 4.1 so that it is now about a factor of 4 slower than the DMD entry. This shows that Data.Hashtable is doing *at least* four times more work that is needed for this usage pattern. And even with my over specialized hash table, Haskell is almost 50% slower than OCaml's module H = Hashtbl.Make(S) (note that I my code uses the same hash function as OCaml). Unfortunately I cannot submit this optimized hash table entry to the shootout. The only mutable data structure that come with GHC besides arrays is Data.Hashtable, which is not comptetitive with OCaml Hashtbl or DMD's associative arrays (unless there is something great hidden under Data.Graph). Is there any hope for GHC 6.6? Does anyone have pointers to an existing library at all? Perl and Python and Lua also have excellent built in hashtable capabilities. Where is a good library for Haskell? -- Chris Kuklewicz ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Can I use Haskell for web programming
I think it would be interesting to ask some professional site to install hsp, before I go to the cgi solution. If I want to do that, what should I ask them to install to get a full working environment, with access to SQL and other stuff? Maurício Niklas Broberg wrote: hsp can be run in two different modes. Running the full-blown version with runtime system will probably be hard on a professional site, you would have to convince them to install hsp. But if you can do without the fancier bits, in particular application-scoped data, you can run hsp pages as ordinary cgi scripts. Look in the HSPR.CGI.RunCGI module. /Niklas On 1/21/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They both look cool. Do you think I'll be able to find someone to host professional sites using those libraries? [], Maurício Sebastian Sylvan wrote: On 1/21/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Can I use Haskell to do what people do with, say, PHP? More and more I have the need for that, and I've been looking into Ruby on Rails. Do you thing Haskell could be a choice? Of course, I don't need something exactly like PHP (for instance, I don't care if I can't insert code in the middle of xhtml pages. If I have to generate everything from Haskell code, I would probably like it. Also, CGI can be a choice). But I need reasonable efficiency and to be able to find someone to host my site. What solutions do you suggest me? Take a look at WASH and HSP... http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~thiemann/WASH/ http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~d00nibro/hsp/ -- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Can I use Haskell for web programming
Now that would be a treat. :-) To get it working properly you would first of all need ghc. The you would need packages hsp with dependencies (haskell-src-exts, harp, trhsx) and hspr with dependencies (hs-plugins). To get the SQL parts you probably want to have haskelldb. I am in the process of making hsp installation easier, there are still a bunch of rough edges here and there. You can contact me if you want to try installing, or if you find someone who would be willing to try. :-) /Niklas On 1/23/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it would be interesting to ask some professional site to install hsp, before I go to the cgi solution. If I want to do that, what should I ask them to install to get a full working environment, with access to SQL and other stuff? Maurício Niklas Broberg wrote: hsp can be run in two different modes. Running the full-blown version with runtime system will probably be hard on a professional site, you would have to convince them to install hsp. But if you can do without the fancier bits, in particular application-scoped data, you can run hsp pages as ordinary cgi scripts. Look in the HSPR.CGI.RunCGI module. /Niklas ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Guess what ... Tutorial uploaded! :)
On 1/22/06, Dmitry Astapov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recend thread Tutorial upload reminded me of my intentions to write haskell tutorial which I suppresend from the times when Hal Daume began to write YAHT. Unusually low temperature here (-22C) freed me a lot of time this weekend, and the result it here: http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HitchhickersGuideToTheHaskell This is a work in progress, plus I'm trying it on C++/Java folk around me, so it's bound to be heavily corrected, but main direction could already be seen (I hope). If you want - jump on the wagon, and provide me with (constructive) criticism, edits on hawiki or anything else you see fit. I like the approach - using real tools to perform sensible tasks. I'm not a real newbie any more (but hardly an expert!) so I can't really comment on whether the approach is OK for someone who's never tried Haskell before, but it looks good to me. As a specific example, I haven't used Parsec much, and the section on that is just right - enough details for me to see how I use it, but no more than that, so I'm encouraged to go and look at the manuals if I need any extra. Keep up the good work! (I won't wish any more -22C weather on you, but I hope you find time to keep going). Some other sample tasks might be a web service, and database access. Neither is trivial in Haskell, due to the need to search out the right libraries, but both are very common real-life jobs. Paul. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Hashtable woes
Hello Chris, Monday, January 23, 2006, 12:27:53 PM, you wrote: CK The only mutable data structure that come with GHC besides arrays is CK Data.Hashtable, which is not comptetitive with OCaml Hashtbl or DMD's CK associative arrays (unless there is something great hidden under CK Data.Graph). Is there any hope for GHC 6.6? Does anyone have pointers to CK an existing library at all? Perl and Python and Lua also have excellent CK built in hashtable capabilities. Where is a good library for Haskell? 1) are you used +RTS -A10m / +RTS -H100m? 2) Simon Marlow optimized something in the IOArray handling, but i don't understand that is changed. see http://cvs.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/650 -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Performance Tuning darcs (a real shootout?)
Hello Jason, Monday, January 23, 2006, 9:38:02 AM, you wrote: JD Potentially useful information about darcs; JD 1) Uses a slightly modified version of FastPackedStrings. what you mean? afaik, there is no standard FastPackedString implementation, but there is some library that with minimal modifications used in darcs, jhc and many other apps JD still reports large amounts of memory used. Does ghc use mmap to JD allocate memory instead of malloc? afaik, the answer is yes. look at ghc-6.4.1-src\ghc\rts\MBlock.c JD I'm looking for advice or help in optimizing darcs in this case. I JD guess this could be viewed as a challenge for people that felt like JD the micro benchmarks of the shootout were unfair to Haskell. Can we JD demonstrate that Haskell provides good performance in the real-world JD when working with large files? Ideally, darcs could easily work with JD a patch that is 10GB in size using only a few megs of ram if need be JD and doing so in about the time it takes read the file once or twice JD and gzip it. it seems that Ian just used this as memory/time-efficient alternative for hGetContents. reading from memory-mapped file may be done as pure computation if the whole file is mapped. is this used in darcs? if not, then we can map small block at the time or even just use hGetBuf - at least, for first version. what you will say about this? JD Just to recap, I'm looking for 1) advice, 2) tips, 3) design ideas, JD 4) tools, 5) libraries and just about anything else :) i'll be happy to help, but i'm not ready to study the darcs code. i'm ready to solve more concrete problems - such as providing new input mechanism with given external interface or optimizing something rather small -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Can I use Haskell for web programming
I think the easiest way to achieve that would be to do as Thomas Davie suggested earlier and get a virtual server where you can install whatever you want. /Björn Maurício wrote: I think it would be interesting to ask some professional site to install hsp, before I go to the cgi solution. If I want to do that, what should I ask them to install to get a full working environment, with access to SQL and other stuff? Maurício Niklas Broberg wrote: hsp can be run in two different modes. Running the full-blown version with runtime system will probably be hard on a professional site, you would have to convince them to install hsp. But if you can do without the fancier bits, in particular application-scoped data, you can run hsp pages as ordinary cgi scripts. Look in the HSPR.CGI.RunCGI module. /Niklas On 1/21/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They both look cool. Do you think I'll be able to find someone to host professional sites using those libraries? [], Maurício Sebastian Sylvan wrote: On 1/21/06, Maurício [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Can I use Haskell to do what people do with, say, PHP? More and more I have the need for that, and I've been looking into Ruby on Rails. Do you thing Haskell could be a choice? Of course, I don't need something exactly like PHP (for instance, I don't care if I can't insert code in the middle of xhtml pages. If I have to generate everything from Haskell code, I would probably like it. Also, CGI can be a choice). But I need reasonable efficiency and to be able to find someone to host my site. What solutions do you suggest me? Take a look at WASH and HSP... http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~thiemann/WASH/ http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~d00nibro/hsp/ -- Sebastian Sylvan +46(0)736-818655 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hashtable woes
Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Chris, Monday, January 23, 2006, 12:27:53 PM, you wrote: CK The only mutable data structure that come with GHC besides arrays is CK Data.Hashtable, which is not comptetitive with OCaml Hashtbl or DMD's CK associative arrays (unless there is something great hidden under CK Data.Graph). Is there any hope for GHC 6.6? Does anyone have pointers to CK an existing library at all? Perl and Python and Lua also have excellent CK built in hashtable capabilities. Where is a good library for Haskell? 1) are you used +RTS -A10m / +RTS -H100m? 2) Simon Marlow optimized something in the IOArray handling, but i don't understand that is changed. see http://cvs.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/650 Much of the GC overhead of Data.Hash should be gone in GHC 6.6. I also have an improved implementation of Data.Hash from Jan-Willem Maessen to import, but that will be 6.6 rather than 6.4.2. Cheers, Simon ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hashtable woes
Simon Marlow wrote: Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Chris, Monday, January 23, 2006, 12:27:53 PM, you wrote: CK The only mutable data structure that come with GHC besides arrays is CK Data.Hashtable, which is not comptetitive with OCaml Hashtbl or DMD's CK associative arrays (unless there is something great hidden under CK Data.Graph). Is there any hope for GHC 6.6? Does anyone have pointers to CK an existing library at all? Perl and Python and Lua also have excellent CK built in hashtable capabilities. Where is a good library for Haskell? 1) are you used +RTS -A10m / +RTS -H100m? 2) Simon Marlow optimized something in the IOArray handling, but i don't understand that is changed. see http://cvs.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/650 Much of the GC overhead of Data.Hash should be gone in GHC 6.6. I also have an improved implementation of Data.Hash from Jan-Willem Maessen to import, but that will be 6.6 rather than 6.4.2. Cheers, Simon That is good to hear. The benchmark's tests take 1,250,000 pre-generated strings as the keys. At the end, the string keys are 18 characters long, drawn randomly from a set of 4 characters. So the hash computations are a nontrivial hit. Using -A400m I get 39s down from 55s. That is the best Data.HashTable time I have seen. (Using -A10m and -A100m were a little slower). Using my over optimized c-code hashtable I get 12.3 seconds. The associative arrays in OCaml and D are still faster. So you see why I long for GHC 6.6. Is Jan-Willem Maessen's Hash available anywhere? I could benchmark it. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hashtable woes
Hello Chris, Monday, January 23, 2006, 6:09:15 PM, you wrote: CK Using -A400m I get 39s down from 55s. That is the best Data.HashTable time I CK have seen. (Using -A10m and -A100m were a little slower). 1) -A400m is a bit unusual. -H400m for 500-meg machine, -H800m for 1g computer and so on will be fastest. current GHC doc leaks explanations in this area, but basically -H just allocates that much area and then dynamically changes -A after each GC allocating all available space to the generation-0 memory pool 2) it's better to say that was MUT and GC times in your program, and even better just to post its output with +RTS -sstderr please post improved results here. that's really interesting for me, and for my programs too ;) -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Guess what ... Tutorial uploaded! :)
Dmitry Astapov wrote: http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HitchhickersGuideToTheHaskell I like the approach too, but the section on IO actions, which I'm reading now, is not correct. It's not true that a - someAction has the effect of associating a with someAction, with the actual work deferred until later. All of the IO associated with someAction happens at the program point where a - someAction appears, whether or not it's needed later. getContents is a rare exception to this rule. It works by using unsafeInterleaveIO behind the scenes, which muddies Haskell's generally clean semantics and leads to odd impure behavior. I wish getContents were a good example of nonstrictness or laziness, but I don't think it is. -- Ben ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
