[IAEP] Contract bridge (was Fwd: Better Games for Brighter Minds)

[Edward Cherlin]

Does anybody want to program contract bridge for Sugar? It would have
an interesting collaboration design for changing to dummy play. If
anybody would like to take this on, we can bring ACBL in, just as we
are doing for Go and chess.

A friend wrote:

Ed,

The Youth Coordinator for the American Contract Bridge League is
Patty Tucker. Her email is
patty.tuc...@acbl.org
901 332 5586

If you should need them, I also have her cell and home numbers.

Having seen third graders play competently, if not expertly, in
tournament conditions, I think bridge is a possibility as much as chess.
My guess is that chess is a bit easier to start but bridge is an easier
game in which to become competent.


-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
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[IAEP] telepathy, empathy and collaboration in gnome

[David Van Assche]

Here's an article about the state of collaboration in gnome itself,
and a review of empathy, the new integrated gnome telepathy client,
with support for tubes, as well as some other apps that do
collaboration:

http://www.nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration

Kind Regards,
David Van Assche
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[IAEP] New Server

[David Farning]

It time for our first Capital campaign as Sugar Labs.  In order to
transition from development centric community to a education centric
community we are establishing a worldwide network of Local Labs.

Local Labs are grass roots organizations which adapt the Sugar
Learning Platform to the needs and culture of a particular region.

To help foster Local Labs, Sugar Labs would like to provide
infrastructure support until the Local Labs become self sustaining.
To provide that support, Sugar Labs will be purchasing its first
server.

The server, which will supplement Solarsail, will be purchased
together with the Free Software Foundation and hosted at GNAPS

So far we have raised $1600 from:
bernie: $800
wbender:  $200
dfarning:  $300
tomeu: $300

Please help Sugar Labs spread the Sugar learning platform through the
establishment of Local Labs.   Your Donation through
http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate is appreciated.

The server will provide:
* hosting for the Local Labs
* olenepal.org and other associated sites.
* activities.sugarlabs.org (activities directory and downloads)
* downloads (mirrored to solarsail)
* developer shell accounts
* api.sugarlabs.org
* full daily backups for all our systems
* nameserver
* people.sugarlabs.org (~public_html dirs)
* blogs
* monitoring and stats
* miscellaneous web applications

The Sugar Labs infrastructure is volunteer-maintained, and Sunjammer
will let us enroll new sysadmins from the community.  Trinity,
Solarsail and all the machines hosted at OSL, prgrmr.com, Collabora,
SolutionGroove and Google will also remain operational.

thank you
David Farning
Sugar Labs
http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate
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Re: [IAEP] XOCamp fundraising (and, please sign up to donate)

[Samuel Klein]

I'm not sure that there are any tax or other reasons to be worried
about this, but I do agree that there should be a page on SLwiki with
the latest info on the current requests and available funds.  The page
on the OLPCwiki can be updated with info and point there, but we
should have exactly one page that is expected to always have the
right/latest sums.  SJ

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Samuel Klein  wrote:
> Please don't wait.  Draft the post, and point to [[sugar:XOCamp 2]]
> where I'll put the details.  SJ
>
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jameson Quinn  
> wrote:
>> I was just about to write a guest post for OLPCNews asking for (tax
>> deductible) contributions towards the travel scholarship fund for XOCamp.
>> But when I asked on IRC if anybody had any good photos of Sugarcamp to
>> include, they told me to wait, because SJ has to move the fundraising page
>> off of the OLPC wiki (for tax reasons or something). I wanted to get this
>> done ASAP because time is growing short, but I'm going to the country
>> (offline) until Monday or Tuesday.
>>
>> So: if anybody can take on the task of waiting until the page is moved, then
>> writing a fundraising post to OLPCNews, I'd really appreciate it, and so
>> would the rest of the people who are looking for partial travel
>> scholarships. There's applications from Guatemala, where exciting things are
>> happening and 3000 XOs will be arriving next year; from Uruguay, where
>> Proyecto Ceibal is now the organization with more experience in XO
>> deployment than anyone else; and from Denmark, to help with packaging
>> issues; and more applications are expected. All donations are tax
>> deductible, going through sugarlabs.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jameson
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> > Hash: SHA1
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 04:19:54PM -0600, Jameson Quinn wrote:
>>> >>It's getting to be time to buy tickets for XOCamp 2, which is in under
>>> >>a month now. Those of us who'd like to come from far away would love to
>>> >>know whether we can get some financial support for our journey.
>>> >
>>> > I am wondering: Do you guys think it would be relevant for me to
>>> > participate in this?
>>> >
>>> > I mean, I don't develop activities themselves and am not a
>>> > construcionism theorist. I "just" do packaging for Debian an Debian-edu,
>>> > and do what I can to unite the Sugar packaging efforts of .deb based
>>> > distros.
>>> >
>>> > I do not foubt that I am welcome. Question is more if you imagine that
>>> > it would be beneficial for the project - also as I would like to request
>>> > financial support for my travel costs (I live in Denmark).
>>>
>>> Your presence would be highly beneficial. We have been having serious
>>> packaging problems. I don't know how they differ between distros, but
>>> I feel the lack every day on Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> > I can offer to stay longer in the area, before and/or after the event,
>>> > if anyone would find that beneficial.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >- Jonas
>>> >
>>> > - --
>>> > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
>>> > * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>>> >
>>> >[x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>>> >
>>> > iEYEARECAAYFAklHJdsACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiezQCgkQr3++cqyhjQ4q0ZcBoSMMn2
>>> > GNIAnjjUtxooWDXNKmVVEHmS6kt+e6+q
>>> > =eqs/
>>> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>>> > ___
>>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
>>> And Children are my nation.
>>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
>>> ___
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
___
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Re: [IAEP] XOCamp fundraising (and, please sign up to donate)

[Samuel Klein]

Please don't wait.  Draft the post, and point to [[sugar:XOCamp 2]]
where I'll put the details.  SJ

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jameson Quinn  wrote:
> I was just about to write a guest post for OLPCNews asking for (tax
> deductible) contributions towards the travel scholarship fund for XOCamp.
> But when I asked on IRC if anybody had any good photos of Sugarcamp to
> include, they told me to wait, because SJ has to move the fundraising page
> off of the OLPC wiki (for tax reasons or something). I wanted to get this
> done ASAP because time is growing short, but I'm going to the country
> (offline) until Monday or Tuesday.
>
> So: if anybody can take on the task of waiting until the page is moved, then
> writing a fundraising post to OLPCNews, I'd really appreciate it, and so
> would the rest of the people who are looking for partial travel
> scholarships. There's applications from Guatemala, where exciting things are
> happening and 3000 XOs will be arriving next year; from Uruguay, where
> Proyecto Ceibal is now the organization with more experience in XO
> deployment than anyone else; and from Denmark, to help with packaging
> issues; and more applications are expected. All donations are tax
> deductible, going through sugarlabs.
>
> Thanks,
> Jameson
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 04:19:54PM -0600, Jameson Quinn wrote:
>> >>It's getting to be time to buy tickets for XOCamp 2, which is in under
>> >>a month now. Those of us who'd like to come from far away would love to
>> >>know whether we can get some financial support for our journey.
>> >
>> > I am wondering: Do you guys think it would be relevant for me to
>> > participate in this?
>> >
>> > I mean, I don't develop activities themselves and am not a
>> > construcionism theorist. I "just" do packaging for Debian an Debian-edu,
>> > and do what I can to unite the Sugar packaging efforts of .deb based
>> > distros.
>> >
>> > I do not foubt that I am welcome. Question is more if you imagine that
>> > it would be beneficial for the project - also as I would like to request
>> > financial support for my travel costs (I live in Denmark).
>>
>> Your presence would be highly beneficial. We have been having serious
>> packaging problems. I don't know how they differ between distros, but
>> I feel the lack every day on Ubuntu.
>>
>> > I can offer to stay longer in the area, before and/or after the event,
>> > if anyone would find that beneficial.
>> >
>> >
>> >- Jonas
>> >
>> > - --
>> > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
>> > * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>> >
>> >[x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>> >
>> > iEYEARECAAYFAklHJdsACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiezQCgkQr3++cqyhjQ4q0ZcBoSMMn2
>> > GNIAnjjUtxooWDXNKmVVEHmS6kt+e6+q
>> > =eqs/
>> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> > ___
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
>> And Children are my nation.
>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
___
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Re: [IAEP] XOCamp fundraising (and, please sign up to donate)

[Edward Cherlin]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Jameson Quinn  wrote:
> I was just about to write a guest post for OLPCNews asking for (tax
> deductible) contributions towards the travel scholarship fund for XOCamp.
> But when I asked on IRC if anybody had any good photos of Sugarcamp to
> include, they told me to wait, because SJ has to move the fundraising page
> off of the OLPC wiki (for tax reasons or something).

I don't understand. SJ, can you explain? Where will the page move to?

> I wanted to get this
> done ASAP because time is growing short, but I'm going to the country
> (offline) until Monday or Tuesday.
>
> So: if anybody can take on the task of waiting until the page is moved, then
> writing a fundraising post to OLPCNews, I'd really appreciate it, and so
> would the rest of the people who are looking for partial travel
> scholarships.

I was getting ready to write such an article anyway, so you're on.

> There's applications from Guatemala, where exciting things are
> happening and 3000 XOs will be arriving next year; from Uruguay, where
> Proyecto Ceibal is now the organization with more experience in XO
> deployment than anyone else; and from Denmark, to help with packaging
> issues; and more applications are expected. All donations are tax
> deductible, going through sugarlabs.

I want to invite some partners from Africa, as well.

We need more money than we are going to get from individual donations.
Does anybody have an idea for a corporate sponsor, or other funding
possibilities? Several companies put in a million dollars each to get
OLPC started. How about a few thousand here and there to speed up
actual deployments and make them more effective?

> Thanks,
> Jameson
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 04:19:54PM -0600, Jameson Quinn wrote:
>> >>It's getting to be time to buy tickets for XOCamp 2, which is in under
>> >>a month now. Those of us who'd like to come from far away would love to
>> >>know whether we can get some financial support for our journey.
>> >
>> > I am wondering: Do you guys think it would be relevant for me to
>> > participate in this?
>> >
>> > I mean, I don't develop activities themselves and am not a
>> > construcionism theorist. I "just" do packaging for Debian an Debian-edu,
>> > and do what I can to unite the Sugar packaging efforts of .deb based
>> > distros.
>> >
>> > I do not foubt that I am welcome. Question is more if you imagine that
>> > it would be beneficial for the project - also as I would like to request
>> > financial support for my travel costs (I live in Denmark).
>>
>> Your presence would be highly beneficial. We have been having serious
>> packaging problems. I don't know how they differ between distros, but
>> I feel the lack every day on Ubuntu.
>>
>> > I can offer to stay longer in the area, before and/or after the event,
>> > if anyone would find that beneficial.
>> >
>> >
>> >- Jonas
>> >
>> > - --
>> > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
>> > * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>> >
>> >[x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>> >
>> > iEYEARECAAYFAklHJdsACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiezQCgkQr3++cqyhjQ4q0ZcBoSMMn2
>> > GNIAnjjUtxooWDXNKmVVEHmS6kt+e6+q
>> > =eqs/
>> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> > ___
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
>> And Children are my nation.
>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
___
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Re: [IAEP] XOCamp fundraising (and, please sign up to donate)

[Jameson Quinn]

I was just about to write a guest post  for
OLPCNewsasking for (tax
deductible) contributions towards the travel scholarship
fund for XOCamp. But when I asked on IRC if anybody had any good photos of
Sugarcamp to include, they told me to wait, because SJ  has
to move the fundraising
pageoff of
the OLPC wiki (for tax reasons or something). I wanted to get this
done ASAP because time is growing short, but I'm going to the country
(offline) until Monday or Tuesday.

So: if anybody can take on the task of waiting until the page is moved, then
*writing a fundraising post to OLPCNews*, I'd really appreciate it, and so
would the rest of the people who are looking for partial travel
scholarships. There's applications from Guatemala, where exciting things are
happening and 3000 XOs will be arriving next year; from Uruguay, where
Proyecto Ceibal is now the organization with more experience in XO
deployment than anyone else; and from Denmark, to help with packaging
issues; and more applications are expected. All donations are tax
deductible, going through sugarlabs.

Thanks,
Jameson

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 04:19:54PM -0600, Jameson Quinn wrote:
> >>It's getting to be time to buy tickets for XOCamp 2, which is in under
> >>a month now. Those of us who'd like to come from far away would love to
> >>know whether we can get some financial support for our journey.
> >
> > I am wondering: Do you guys think it would be relevant for me to
> > participate in this?
> >
> > I mean, I don't develop activities themselves and am not a
> > construcionism theorist. I "just" do packaging for Debian an Debian-edu,
> > and do what I can to unite the Sugar packaging efforts of .deb based
> > distros.
> >
> > I do not foubt that I am welcome. Question is more if you imagine that
> > it would be beneficial for the project - also as I would like to request
> > financial support for my travel costs (I live in Denmark).
>
> Your presence would be highly beneficial. We have been having serious
> packaging problems. I don't know how they differ between distros, but
> I feel the lack every day on Ubuntu.
>
> > I can offer to stay longer in the area, before and/or after the event,
> > if anyone would find that beneficial.
> >
> >
> >- Jonas
> >
> > - --
> > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> > * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> >
> >[x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAklHJdsACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiezQCgkQr3++cqyhjQ4q0ZcBoSMMn2
> > GNIAnjjUtxooWDXNKmVVEHmS6kt+e6+q
> > =eqs/
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> And Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
___
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[IAEP] A cool theme for the planet

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

Hello,

planet.sugarlabs.org is getting very lively these days, yay! I think
we would benefit from a better theme... Any artist or web designer
around which would be willing to give it a try?

Thanks!
Marco
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Re: [IAEP] Testing meeting follow up

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

Decisions:

* Neither Sugar Labs, OLPC or any other distribution can take
responsibility over *all* Activity testing. Only sanity checking (and
needed testing) on the subset they've decided to be responsible for.
We should work together to encourage Activity maintainers to test
their own Activities, provide them the necessary tools, policies and
information.
* During these coordination meetings and a few email threads, we made
huge progress on upstream/downstream responsibility division on
testing. We are all comfortable to move ahead with the plan now. Yay!

Actions:

* Marco to run point on "Activity testing infrastructure" at Sugar Labs.
* Marco to keep championing activity infrastructure and maintenance
work flows at Sugar Labs.
* Marco to schedule a meeting about automated testing, probably in the
context of development team meetings.
* Mel to communicate with OLPC management and internal testing group
about the outcome of these meetings.
* Mel to sleep at night. She was falling asleep in the middle of the
conversation and almost derailed Marco plans to finish in one hour.

Lessons learned:

* Always write your minutes just after the meeting, or you will end up
wasting time to reread the whole log. (if you have a flaky memory like
mine, at least).
* Make sure that everyone take actions, Simon has apparently been lazy
this time!

Thanks:

* To Simon and Mel for the entertaining and productive conversation.
I'm excited that we removed pretty much all the road blockers. There
will be more coordination to do, I'm sure, but we can start running
now!

Full log:

 ok I guess we can start the next meeting now
 I'm supposed to run it, but I don't know how to run meetings
 but it's only a few of us, so it won't be too bad!
 so activities
 the question last time was... who tests activities?
 marcopg mchua_ mungewell1 meeting m_stone mtd morgs
 mchua_: is the olpc community testing group going to do it?
 "Not OLPC," says the Mel. "Only when we want to verify
Activities we're shipping on the default image for XOs," says the Mel.
 mchua_: OLPC as org or as community too?
 marcopg: as org, and as far as the org will support community
testing, at least for now.
 marcopg: there's a reason I started off community testers with
g1g1-2008 activities - it's a really easy way to argue that this,
clearly, is something OLPC Should Have Tested, as we Ship It.
 mchua_: so OLPC strategy is to rely on upstream worth
activities quality?
 mchua_: that's what I think too, if you ship something you need to test it
 from the upstream point of view
 marcopg: Well, it's tricky. We definitely don't *support*
Activities, even the few we ship.
 mchua_: I understand, but I've not been able to make sense
out of that yet
 marcopg: and with limited resources, I would prioritize OLPC
testing towards XO-specific code (like our build, say.)
 marcopg: hm, then I should try to clarify... is there any particular
point you had questions on?
 marcopg: or should I start trying to explain my current understanding of it?
 mchua_: prioritizing make sense clearly... but I don't see
how you can not support something you ship
 I guess what I'm unclear on is
 how does it make sense to ship a product, and *not* support a very
relevant part of it?
 think to the extreme case
 if no activities would work
 what good would it be if the OS/core Sugar was perfect?
 Oh, I agree that without Activities, a perfect ship of
Sugar/XO-OS would be useless.
 mchua_: but you disagree that OLPC should ensure that
Activities are working well?
* erikos can not kick the bot - just tried
 Maybe a similar case would be... I'm not sure how Red Hat
support works, but if someone writes $random_third_party_application,
Red Hat doesn't necessarily support it automagically, right?
 mchua_: totally agreed about random third parties
 mchua_: but making every activity a random third party seems to push it too far
 marcopg: I disagree that it is the responsibility of OLPC to
ensure all Sugar Activities are working well. I agree it is the
responsibility of OLPC - a responsibility towards its customers - to
ensure a small subset of Sugar Activities they're likely to care about
are working well.
 mchua_: then we completely agree :)
 marcopg: I think that this responsibility can best be carried
out by making sure that a non-OLPC test/dev group for that Activity
(which may include OLPC employees) makes sure that Activity works
well,
 so OLPC, through his community or not, should make sure that
this small subset is tested, right?
 since it's likely for Activities we ship (and therefore have
a responsibility to sanity-check) to change from build to biuld.
 marcopg: Yep.
--- andresambrois is now known as aa
 marcopg: Kind of like how OLPC QA has a vested interest in
having SL's BugSquad triage awesomely, even though SL's BugSquad is
Not Us. (In fact, we have a huge incentive to keep the two separate.)
 mchua_: make sure that the activity works well on the XO
 (I guess)
 so this is still some kind of 

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs or Sugar Daddy

[Jonas Smedegaard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:22:10PM +1800, David Farning wrote:
>I have noticed that whenever anyone on the project throws up a call for 
>help you never raise your hand.  On the other hand you are full of 
>suggestions for what other people should do.  We have talked about the 
>before.

If suggestions for others feels inappropriate to you, then please 
killfile me too. If you haven't already.


  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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