Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 08/02/12 16:23, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: On 02/08/2012 at 05:35, "dE ." wrote: Actually this's a very small bug. You can just type the name with the extension to solve the problem. And considering this minor nature, this wont be fixed by the LO team for years (cause they've much bigger bugs to take care of). Sorry, but I don't see your point here. What's the difference if this is minor or huge bug? Bug is a bug, developers should be aware of it. Since they prioritize bug reports, they will not act upon each bug immediately, but they should at least know where their software has rough edges. And personally, I would rather see this fixed in few years than never. By the way, as you can see in LO bug tracker (link is in one of previous posts), they actually did commit change that is supposed to fix that (I did not had opportunity to see if this fix really works). Yeah I saw that :-[ Looks like the QT code maintainer is not overloaded with bugs. Also with this version, have you tried opening docx files? ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 02/08/2012 at 05:35, "dE ." wrote: > Actually this's a very small bug. You can just type the name with the > extension to solve the problem. > > And considering this minor nature, this wont be fixed by the LO team for > years (cause they've much bigger bugs to take care of). Sorry, but I don't see your point here. What's the difference if this is minor or huge bug? Bug is a bug, developers should be aware of it. Since they prioritize bug reports, they will not act upon each bug immediately, but they should at least know where their software has rough edges. And personally, I would rather see this fixed in few years than never. By the way, as you can see in LO bug tracker (link is in one of previous posts), they actually did commit change that is supposed to fix that (I did not had opportunity to see if this fix really works). -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 07/31/12 03:52, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: On 30/07/2012 at 15:50, "dE ." wrote: You're using Gentoo right? I'm, with (~amd64) libreoffice 3.5.5.3. KDE is at 4.8.4. No, I am using Debian testing (Wheezy) right now. Sorry if I forgot to mention that. I have the same architecture, LO and KDE versions as you do. Actually this's a very small bug. You can just type the name with the extension to solve the problem. And considering this minor nature, this wont be fixed by the LO team for years (cause they've much bigger bugs to take care of). ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 30/07/2012 at 15:50, "dE ." wrote: > You're using Gentoo right? I'm, with (~amd64) libreoffice 3.5.5.3. KDE > is at 4.8.4. No, I am using Debian testing (Wheezy) right now. Sorry if I forgot to mention that. I have the same architecture, LO and KDE versions as you do. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 07/26/12 22:34, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: On 26/07/2012 at 17:12, "dE ." wrote: You may like to disable KDE/QT dialogues in libreoffice-KDE by tools> options> [check] Use libreoffice dialogs. Then I won't have access to "Places". Yes, I quite complain ;) . The problem is that each method has drawbacks and I have to choose lesser evil, which I hate. Also this problem does not persist in my setup using KDE dialogues. Could you elaborate? What LO/KDE versions? What distribution? How was LO/KDE installed? Can you point out where exactly your results differs from mine (please see tables in first message in this thread and table available in LO bug report[1])? It would be interesting to know what are differences between mine and your setup and where does results differ. [1] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52546 You're using Gentoo right? I'm, with (~amd64) libreoffice 3.5.5.3. KDE is at 4.8.4. Yes, I do see the bug now. the proposed name of the file is 1.2.txt instead of 1.2.3.4.txt ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
Mirosław Zalewski posted on Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:23:49 +0200 as excerpted: > Thanks for your replies. > I have sent bug report to LO. It can be found here: > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52546 > > Feel free to provide any information I might have missed that you find > important. > > Let's hope they will look into this soon. That bug is a very good explanation from my perspective. Thanks. And thanks for the links both ways between this thread and that bug, too. If I was a libreoffice user I'd certainly cc and test/confirm the results myself, but since I'm not, it looks like I've done what I can, so I'll step out of it now, and hope that if I ever /do/ find reason to use it, the problem's fixed by then. But if not, at least I know where to check the status. =:^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 26/07/2012 at 17:12, "dE ." wrote: > You may like to disable KDE/QT dialogues in libreoffice-KDE by tools > > options > [check] Use libreoffice dialogs. Then I won't have access to "Places". Yes, I quite complain ;) . The problem is that each method has drawbacks and I have to choose lesser evil, which I hate. > Also this problem does not persist in my setup using KDE dialogues. Could you elaborate? What LO/KDE versions? What distribution? How was LO/KDE installed? Can you point out where exactly your results differs from mine (please see tables in first message in this thread and table available in LO bug report[1])? It would be interesting to know what are differences between mine and your setup and where does results differ. [1] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52546 -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
On 07/25/12 17:31, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure if I understood everything correctly (may be my English, though). That's true, that "Automatically select filename extension" is antoher factor that I should have taken into account. I forgot about it, sorry. My test was run with that checkbox enabled (which I believe is default anyway). On 25/07/2012 at 10:09, Duncan<1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: a) Does LO use native desktop file-save dialogs, kde's file-save dialogs on kde, gtk's on gtk, and either gtk's or its own on bare X11? Yes, they do. KDE file dialog on KDE Plasma, GTK file dialog on GNOME and others (e.g. Openbox) and pure X11/their own (I'm not sure, I don't know if I have ever seen pure X11 file dialog) when no KDE/GTK is available. b) For kde apps, and thus LO too if it uses native kde file dialogs on kde, does the suggested save-as name change, based on the filetype filter and/or whether the "automatically select filename extension" checkbox is selected in the save-as dialog? Yes, it does change. It looks like this: Automatic... checked? 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4.odt no1.2.31.2.3.4 yes 1.2.pdf 1.2.3.pdf (I tried "Export to PDF" function.) For me, it looks pretty much that both KDE and LO strips extension from filename. If I disable KDE automatic filename extension it does not strip it, but I have one component stripped anyway. Unfortunately, disabling "Automatically select filename extension" checkbox is working system-wide, at least on 4.8.4. Without this drawback, it would be nice workaround (but I have to think what is more frustrating - handicapped filenames in LO or being forced to type file extension each time). I believe that my questions #1 and #2 are pretty much answered (but any other comments are welcome). Any comments about my question #3? You may like to disable KDE/QT dialogues in libreoffice-KDE by tools > options > [check] Use libreoffice dialogs. Also this problem does not persist in my setup using KDE dialogues. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
Thanks for your replies. I have sent bug report to LO. It can be found here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52546 Feel free to provide any information I might have missed that you find important. Let's hope they will look into this soon. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
My recollection of kde 3.x is that all multimedia apps check the actual file for it's file type. That way the extension just needs to be a multimedia type and as these are some times incorrect also a sensible way to go. It's a sensible place to put the work as the file data is likely to contain info needed to display what ever it is. Preview also functioned on some missnamed files at least. It also handled dots as Miroslaw requires. That in practice may have originally been down to software versioning where it's widely used. It's still functioning on my kde at least at the launch end. RPM's and compressed files can be sent where they are supposed to go. I would assume authors are saving without problem as well. :-) Can't help wondering is some are parsed from the tail and others from the head. On the other hand seriously launch seems to be ok and the problems seem to only relate to saving. The only fix I could suggest is replacing dots with underscores (as I call them). Curiously these are seen in places which makes me wonder if some other systems have similar problems. Of late I have seen another form of naming eg "photivo-794_a038f21c7828-148.3.x86_64.rpm". I have used the neg sign myself but found it caused problems when I used searches to collect together files before a subsequent machine change. John ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
Mirosław Zalewski posted on Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:01:06 +0200 as excerpted: > Unfortunately, disabling "Automatically select filename extension" > checkbox is working system-wide, at least on 4.8.4. Well, kde-wide. System-wide would affect gtk dialogs, even the command line where it could, as well, and it would affect all users. (That's actually a major gripe I have with kde calling kde settings system settings, for the most part it's *NOT* system settings, but user-specific AND kde specific. Granted, setting the time is system-wide, and a couple other settings, but not most of them.) I /think/ it's that way with 4.9-rc2 as well. Both gwenview and kolourpaint seemed to switch in tandem, anyway, tho I wasn't really testing that rigourously. > Without this > drawback, it would be nice workaround (but I have to think what is more > frustrating - handicapped filenames in LO or being forced to type file > extension each time). FWIW, to me, the extension is part of the filename, so I expect to type it. If it happens to be right and I don't have to type it, I won't complain, but I surely will if it starts coming up wrong and I can't set something to have it properly ignored (which in kde, I can). > I believe that my questions #1 and #2 are pretty much answered (but any > other comments are welcome). Any comments about my question #3? If libreoffice is stripping a dot-component even with the automatic... unchecked, as your table shows, then the problem is definitely libreoffice, as that's not native kde behavior, as both you and I have verified now. What appears to be happening is that libreoffice is stripping a dot- component before it hands it off to the kde file dialog at all. Then it's handed to the kde file dialog, and depending on kde's auto-extension setting, kde either leaves it as-is, or strips yet another dot-component, because it doesn't know libreoffice has already stripped one. That's definitely a libreoffice bug. They simply need to move the call to kde's file dialog before their dot-component-strip call, instead of after it, as it appears to be now. Then libreoffice's behavior should match that of the rest of kde. So that's where I'd report the bug, but be sure to tell them that libreoffice is stripping an EXTRA dot-component as compared to kde. That wasn't apparent in the bug you already posted a link to. There, it looked like it was just kde doing what it normally does, which is why it was closed NOTOURBUG when filed against libreoffice. Meanwhile, if you'd like you can refer them to this thread as well, and they can see how we tested it out. It's possible that might work better than trying to explain it in detail yourself across the language barrier. I'm a regular on the mailing list and bug-tracker of several projects, and where I'm filing a bug (or CCing myself to a bug filed by someone else) that was discussed on the list, I always include a link to that discussion as well. It certainly can't hurt to have the extra discussion from the thread available, and if they don't need it they don't have to go look. FWIW, I do my lists via gmane, so do have a link to this thread handy. =:^) http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/26110 Likewise, when you file the bug, please post the link to it back here as well. That way, if anyone else has the problem and ends up here after googling it or whatever, they can see the bug and follow its resolution upstream, instead of just seeing the list discussion and having to search out the bug themselves. So when the bug is discussed in both places, I always try to have a link from each, to the other. People don't have to follow the link if they don't want to, but it sure helps if they do need the extra information. =:^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure if I understood everything correctly (may be my English, though). That's true, that "Automatically select filename extension" is antoher factor that I should have taken into account. I forgot about it, sorry. My test was run with that checkbox enabled (which I believe is default anyway). On 25/07/2012 at 10:09, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > a) Does LO use native desktop file-save dialogs, kde's file-save > dialogs on kde, gtk's on gtk, and either gtk's or its own on > bare X11? Yes, they do. KDE file dialog on KDE Plasma, GTK file dialog on GNOME and others (e.g. Openbox) and pure X11/their own (I'm not sure, I don't know if I have ever seen pure X11 file dialog) when no KDE/GTK is available. > b) For kde apps, and thus LO too if it uses native kde file dialogs > on kde, does the suggested save-as name change, based on the > filetype filter and/or whether the "automatically select filename > extension" checkbox is selected in the save-as dialog? Yes, it does change. It looks like this: Automatic... checked? 1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4.odt no1.2.31.2.3.4 yes 1.2.pdf 1.2.3.pdf (I tried "Export to PDF" function.) For me, it looks pretty much that both KDE and LO strips extension from filename. If I disable KDE automatic filename extension it does not strip it, but I have one component stripped anyway. Unfortunately, disabling "Automatically select filename extension" checkbox is working system-wide, at least on 4.8.4. Without this drawback, it would be nice workaround (but I have to think what is more frustrating - handicapped filenames in LO or being forced to type file extension each time). I believe that my questions #1 and #2 are pretty much answered (but any other comments are welcome). Any comments about my question #3? -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
Mirosław Zalewski posted on Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:53:02 +0200 as excerpted:
> I decided to make experiment and check behaviour of different applications
> for files with dots in names. I copied one file (text file, JPG image and PDF
> document, depending on application) to two names: 1.2.3.4 and 1.2.3.4.
> {txt,jpg,pdf}. Then I opened each file in application, clicked "Save as" and
> see what filename was proposed in save dialog.
> Results:
> program file with ext file without ext
> LibreOffice (kde)1.2.3.odt 1.2.odt
> LibreOffice (gtk)1.2.3.4 1.2.3
> LibreOffice (none) 1.2.3.4 1.2.3
> kwrite 1.2.3.4.txt 1.2.3.4
> leafpad 1.2.3.4.txt 1.2.3.4
> Okular 1.2.3.4.pdf 1.2.3.4
> Gwenview 1.2.3.4.jpg 1.2.3.jpeg
> KolourPaint 1.2.3.4.jpg 1.2.3.jpeg
> GIMP 1.2.3.4.jpg 1.2.3.4
Wow. I don't know a solution, unfortunately, tho I have an idea
for you to try, but that's a very interesting test you devised! =:^)
FWIW, I don't normally have a use for office suite type apps, plain
text files generally suit my needs for text-only, and if I were
to be doing mixed-media, I'd prefer something like HTML, not
an office suite format, proprietary or not. So I don't believe
I've ever even had LO or its predecessor, OOo, installed at all,
tho IIRC I have had individual parts of koffice/caligra installed
at times to read specific documents.
So I don't have any personal experience with LO at all. But what
I'm wondering based on my general kde experience, is this:
a) Does LO use native desktop file-save dialogs, kde's file-save
dialogs on kde, gtk's on gtk, and either gtk's or its own on
bare X11?
b) For kde apps, and thus LO too if it uses native kde file dialogs
on kde, does the suggested save-as name change, based on the
filetype filter and/or whether the "automatically select filename
extension" checkbox is selected in the save-as dialog?
Stimulated by your testing idea, I ran my own tests, tho only of
kde apps...
KDE's file dialog has an optional filetype filter. For apps
such as okular and kwrite, this appears to be a combobox that's
preset to "all files" when save-as is invoked, and the automatic
extension checkbox appears to be unchecked by default.
For apps such as kolourpaint and gwenview that can do on-the-fly
format conversion, the filter selector seems to be a dropdown
with only presets available, no type-in possible. Presumably
the presets are of the types it can convert to. Meanwhile,
the automatic extension checkbox is checked by default so the
extension associated with that format is supplied by default.
Now, my results (for kde apps anyway) agree with yours, except
that I tried with and without the auto-select-extension checkbox
checked and tried different filetypes for the apps that do
conversions, and with a bit of thought, it's pretty clear what rules
kde follows:
1a) For apps that don't do format conversions (and thus have the
filter combobox in which one can type their own filter), the
suggested filename remains exactly what it was UNLESS one types
their own filter (for instance, *.txt when a jpeg is open in
kwrite, displaying mostly binary gibberish, of course) in place
of the default all files.
1b) The auto-select-extension checkbox is disabled as well, UNTIL
one types their own filter.
1c) If one DOES type their own filter, the checkbox is enabled,
and the suggested filename changes in accordance with the apps
with filetype/format conversion case described below.
2) kde apps that do format conversions (thus use the filter dropdown
box with no chance of typing your own filter):
2a) Auto-select extension checkbox state memory.
The auto-select-extension checkbox state is remembered across
application restarts. HOWEVER, if you select save-as and change
the state, then cancel the save-as, how you cancel it MATTERS.
If you hit cancel (or escape on the keyboard, triggering the same
button), the change to save-as state is saved and you can close
and re-open the app, and it'll remember that change. BUT, if
you use the window decoration close, thus closing the dialog
via the window manager instead of the cancel button in the
save-as dialog, the checkbox state change will NOT be recognized
by the app, so the default both on another save-as in the same
app session and across close and reopen will remain unchanged.
This small particular has me rewriting a bit of this, as I didn't
originally spot the difference in behavior based on dialog cancel
method...
2b) Behavior for unrecognized or wrong extensions
Gwenview actually refuses to open files of the wrong extension
(jpeg renamed to png, for instance) or of an unrecognized extension
(your 1.2.3.4 example won't even open as *.4 isn't recognized), here.
Kolourpaint apparently looks at the extension if supported, but looks
at the actual file data if it doesn't recognized the extension, as it
refuses t
[kde] Dots in filenames and automatic file extension completion
Each time I edit some file with dots in name in LibreOffice, I got major
headache. When saving as or exporting file, LO strips too many components from
filename - not only extension - producing handicapped filenames. Especially my
university papers are tend to be named "M. Zalewski - paper name.odt" and when
I export them to PDF to send to lecturer, LO proposes just "M.pdf".
This has been reported to LO devs[1], but they say that they will not do
anything about it, as this is KDE issue.
So I decided to make experiment and check behaviour of different applications
for files with dots in names. I copied one file (text file, JPG image and PDF
document, depending on application) to two names: 1.2.3.4 and 1.2.3.4.
{txt,jpg,pdf}. Then I opened each file in application, clicked "Save as" and
see what filename was proposed in save dialog.
Results:
program file with ext file without ext
LibreOffice (kde)1.2.3.odt 1.2.odt
LibreOffice (gtk)1.2.3.4 1.2.3
LibreOffice (none) 1.2.3.4 1.2.3
kwrite 1.2.3.4.txt 1.2.3.4
leafpad 1.2.3.4.txt 1.2.3.4
Okular 1.2.3.4.pdf 1.2.3.4
Gwenview 1.2.3.4.jpg 1.2.3.jpeg
KolourPaint 1.2.3.4.jpg 1.2.3.jpeg
GIMP 1.2.3.4.jpg 1.2.3.4
LO dev claim is only half-true - under KDE, behaviour is inconsistent. Kwrite
and Okular preserves filenames without extensions, while Gwenview and
KolourPaint do not. This may or may not be related to fact, that Gwenview and
KolourPaint has ability to save file in different format (select extension from
drop-down list), while Okular and KWrite do not.
Also, LO under KDE behaves clearly different than LO under GTK or pure X11, so
there are definitely bits of KDE involved.
My questions are:
1. Can I, as a user, do something about it? Some work-around on KDE level?
Apart from avoiding dots in filenames, of course.
2. Can someone with deeper KDE knowledge explain this? What is really going on
under the hood? Why LO under KDE, Okular and Gwenview behave differently?
3. Where, if anywhere, should I report this issue? I understand that LO devs
claim that this is KDE issue and KDE devs can claim this is LO issue, but it's
users that loose here. Maybe if KDE offer some function that programs can use
to tell KDE that it should leave file extension alone, LO devs will be willing
to change their codebase. I am willing to try and serve as proxy between KDE
and LO developers, if that's needed. Since I am not a programmer and don't
know C/C++, I can't propose patches that will fix it.
Thanks in advance
[1] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45764
--
Best regards
Mirosław Zalewski
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