Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hello A great and beautiful work has been done, thank you for that. I hope my poor English will not betray my goal which is trying to improve this feature. I would like to continue to discuss it constructively... My message will be a bit long because it is necessary to detail the steps, sorry for that... In (comment # 26) Michael says The relative reference is expressed consistently with reference to the top left hand corner of the range you're currently inside I agree with Michael on: The idea of a special case for when a cell is selected inside the range is (IMHO) not at all intuitive there. I agree when we use Format CF Manage. I agree for cells in the range. But I do not agree when you use Format CF CF and when the current cell is the last of the range because it is a selection mode very common . Steps to reproduce (tested with Version 3.6.4.0+ (Build ID: a010c4e)): 1. File New Spreadsheet 2. Type a, b, c, d respectively A1, A2, A3, A4 3. Select A4:A1 Note: - After entering d A5 is selected and a common way to select A1:A4 is the mouse starting A4 to A1. Why I said in step 3 select A4:A1 - After step 3 A1:A4 is selected and the current cell is A4 4. Format CF CF Add, condition: formula is B4 = 1, Apply style: Result The reference is relative. So we want to test the cell one column to the right, same row. * This is the intuitive functionning in current versions* 5. Keep the selected range and redo Format CF CF The formula is now displayed B7 = 1 I think it introduces a non-homogeneously managing of relatives references. I do not see others dialogs doing this... Further tests show other problem: 6. Delete (click on Remove) 7. Click Add, condition: formula is B4 = 1 Apply style: Result, Ok 8. Keep the selected range and redo Format CF CF The formula was kept and correctly (in my opinion) spread: Format CF Manage displays correctly for A1: A4 Form B1 = 1 This is my expected result, It would be great if we got directly :) Thank you for reading this far ... Regards Pierre-Yves -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-ux-advise-LO-3-6-2-about-Manage-dialog-from-Conditional-Formatting-tp4009133p4013198.html Sent from the UX-Advise mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:29:20AM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. just wanted to follow up on this one as while we discussed the issue at hand some more in private, my initial email was probably quite a bit harsh when standing on its own. Given that, I was happy that you continued to discuss it constructively. Still please accept my apologies for the inital blunt reply, and I hope the issue at hand can be worked out satisfactorily in due time. Best, Bjoern ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Bjoern, Thank you very much for your kind words. I think that this story shows that we need more discussion between developers, QA-team and power users. Later I will try to make constructive propositions to improve our collaboration, for the moment I am building the master to test the patches commited by Michael for fdo54940. :-) Best regards. JBF Le 28/09/2012 11:29, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:29:20AM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. just wanted to follow up on this one as while we discussed the issue at hand some more in private, my initial email was probably quite a bit harsh when standing on its own. Given that, I was happy that you continued to discuss it constructively. Still please accept my apologies for the inital blunt reply, and I hope the issue at hand can be worked out satisfactorily in due time. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:29:20AM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. just wanted to follow up on this one as while we discussed the issue at hand some more in private, my initial email was probably quite a bit harsh when standing on its own. Given that, I was happy that you continued to discuss it constructively. Still please accept my apologies for the inital blunt reply, and I hope the issue at hand can be worked out satisfactorily in due time. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Bjoern, Thank you very much for your kind words. I think that this story shows that we need more discussion between developers, QA-team and power users. Later I will try to make constructive propositions to improve our collaboration, for the moment I am building the master to test the patches commited by Michael for fdo54940. :-) Best regards. JBF Le 28/09/2012 11:29, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:29:20AM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. just wanted to follow up on this one as while we discussed the issue at hand some more in private, my initial email was probably quite a bit harsh when standing on its own. Given that, I was happy that you continued to discuss it constructively. Still please accept my apologies for the inital blunt reply, and I hope the issue at hand can be worked out satisfactorily in due time. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:29:20AM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. just wanted to follow up on this one as while we discussed the issue at hand some more in private, my initial email was probably quite a bit harsh when standing on its own. Given that, I was happy that you continued to discuss it constructively. Still please accept my apologies for the inital blunt reply, and I hope the issue at hand can be worked out satisfactorily in due time. Best, Bjoern ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Bjoern, Thank you very much for your kind words. I think that this story shows that we need more discussion between developers, QA-team and power users. Later I will try to make constructive propositions to improve our collaboration, for the moment I am building the master to test the patches commited by Michael for fdo54940. :-) Best regards. JBF Le 28/09/2012 11:29, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:29:20AM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. just wanted to follow up on this one as while we discussed the issue at hand some more in private, my initial email was probably quite a bit harsh when standing on its own. Given that, I was happy that you continued to discuss it constructively. Still please accept my apologies for the inital blunt reply, and I hope the issue at hand can be worked out satisfactorily in due time. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. Well, it is clear that QA peoples are not welcome in this area of the code. :-( Please cut this passive aggressive tone. QA ia welcome and needed in all areas of the code, however neither QA nor UX does mean make the developer do what I wish. Our developers are sensible people and if you have a convincing argument taking into account all aspects of the issue, I dont think they will shed such input. Best, Bjoern ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi there, On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 06:35 +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? Sigh - people are busy; in particular Markus - whose baby this is has just put in a great chunk of bug-fixing work for 3.6.2 / 3.6.3 to improve lots of conditional formatting corner-cases. I expect that high-priority bug work chews time he could spend on discussing changes to features. Well, it is clear that QA peoples are not welcome in this area of the code. :-( Please don't feel unwelcome if you don't get a quick response. It is -far- easier to ask questions and find problems than it is to consider and fix them; and some problems are more urgent than others. The problem has been described in fdo#54774, fdo#54940, and on QA and UX-advise mailing-list. We had very few answers and only one developer (Markus) point of view. So I decided to ask on developers ML as it is a developer problem. So - Markus is the authority there, since he's the one doing the hacking :-) last I checked he implemented it based on advice from the UX-advise list [ if it is a UI issue, please follow up only on that list instead of cross-posting ]. This Manage dialog is very important as it gives a summary of all CF defined in the current sheet. It is a long waited function for all peoples who are using CF in their spreadsheets. So a big thank you to Markus for that. Agreed, it's some great work. If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. So - I imagine the discussion is just slow going; I havn't followed it in detail, perhaps there is some UX input needed, please be patient :-) All the best, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. I think this is the best thing to do in this case - there is even a bug because of this edit button. If you click edit - remove one conditional formatting entry - Ok - Crash! What I would also do is leave first condition empty (or say something like current selection not in range) if current selection is not in range and it includes a formula. Additional I would put up a warning and explain to the user what he sees (something like Caution! Cells references in formula condition are relative to the current selected cell (cell number)). This is at least what I would do. Regards, Tomaž ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi Jean-Baptiste, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 06:35:57AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? I think it is rather that most in QA already have their share of critical bugs to care about. Well, it is clear that QA peoples are not welcome in this area of the code. :-( Please cut this passive aggressive tone. QA ia welcome and needed in all areas of the code, however neither QA nor UX does mean make the developer do what I wish. Our developers are sensible people and if you have a convincing argument taking into account all aspects of the issue, I dont think they will shed such input. Best, Bjoern ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi there, On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 06:35 +0200, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Nobody interested to test and answer? Sigh - people are busy; in particular Markus - whose baby this is has just put in a great chunk of bug-fixing work for 3.6.2 / 3.6.3 to improve lots of conditional formatting corner-cases. I expect that high-priority bug work chews time he could spend on discussing changes to features. Well, it is clear that QA peoples are not welcome in this area of the code. :-( Please don't feel unwelcome if you don't get a quick response. It is -far- easier to ask questions and find problems than it is to consider and fix them; and some problems are more urgent than others. The problem has been described in fdo#54774, fdo#54940, and on QA and UX-advise mailing-list. We had very few answers and only one developer (Markus) point of view. So I decided to ask on developers ML as it is a developer problem. So - Markus is the authority there, since he's the one doing the hacking :-) last I checked he implemented it based on advice from the UX-advise list [ if it is a UI issue, please follow up only on that list instead of cross-posting ]. This Manage dialog is very important as it gives a summary of all CF defined in the current sheet. It is a long waited function for all peoples who are using CF in their spreadsheets. So a big thank you to Markus for that. Agreed, it's some great work. If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. So - I imagine the discussion is just slow going; I havn't followed it in detail, perhaps there is some UX input needed, please be patient :-) All the best, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. I think this is the best thing to do in this case - there is even a bug because of this edit button. If you click edit - remove one conditional formatting entry - Ok - Crash! What I would also do is leave first condition empty (or say something like current selection not in range) if current selection is not in range and it includes a formula. Additional I would put up a warning and explain to the user what he sees (something like Caution! Cells references in formula condition are relative to the current selected cell (cell number)). This is at least what I would do. Regards, Tomaž ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi all, Now, the bottleneck fdo#54498 has been fixed for LO 3.6.2, it is a great step toward making LO 3.6 usable for production ! So I think it's time for developers to consider the severe UX issue we have with the Edit dialog from manage screen in Format - Conditional Formatting - Manage. The problem has been described in fdo#54774, fdo#54940, and on QA and UX-advise mailing-list. We had very few answers and only one developer (Markus) point of view. So I decided to ask on developers ML as it is a developer problem. To make the story short, I think it is crucial to make the Edit dialog from Format CF Manage Button Edit to work exactly in the same way as Format CF CF, regardless the constraints from using relative references. My main argument is here : http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2012-September/002653.html This Manage dialog is very important as it gives a summary of all CF defined in the current sheet. It is a long waited function for all peoples who are using CF in their spreadsheets. So a big thank you to Markus for that. But now it is important to not give a bad user experience with this new great function. If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. Best regards. JBF, irritating QA people. -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi, Nobody interested to test and answer? Well, it is clear that QA peoples are not welcome in this area of the code. :-( JBF Le 25/09/2012 06:58, Jean-Baptiste Faure a écrit : Hi all, Now, the bottleneck fdo#54498 has been fixed for LO 3.6.2, it is a great step toward making LO 3.6 usable for production ! So I think it's time for developers to consider the severe UX issue we have with the Edit dialog from manage screen in Format - Conditional Formatting - Manage. The problem has been described in fdo#54774, fdo#54940, and on QA and UX-advise mailing-list. We had very few answers and only one developer (Markus) point of view. So I decided to ask on developers ML as it is a developer problem. To make the story short, I think it is crucial to make the Edit dialog from Format CF Manage Button Edit to work exactly in the same way as Format CF CF, regardless the constraints from using relative references. My main argument is here : http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2012-September/002653.html This Manage dialog is very important as it gives a summary of all CF defined in the current sheet. It is a long waited function for all peoples who are using CF in their spreadsheets. So a big thank you to Markus for that. But now it is important to not give a bad user experience with this new great function. If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. Best regards. JBF, irritating QA people. -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
[Libreoffice-qa] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi all, Now, the bottleneck fdo#54498 has been fixed for LO 3.6.2, it is a great step toward making LO 3.6 usable for production ! So I think it's time for developers to consider the severe UX issue we have with the Edit dialog from manage screen in Format - Conditional Formatting - Manage. The problem has been described in fdo#54774, fdo#54940, and on QA and UX-advise mailing-list. We had very few answers and only one developer (Markus) point of view. So I decided to ask on developers ML as it is a developer problem. To make the story short, I think it is crucial to make the Edit dialog from Format CF Manage Button Edit to work exactly in the same way as Format CF CF, regardless the constraints from using relative references. My main argument is here : http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2012-September/002653.html This Manage dialog is very important as it gives a summary of all CF defined in the current sheet. It is a long waited function for all peoples who are using CF in their spreadsheets. So a big thank you to Markus for that. But now it is important to not give a bad user experience with this new great function. If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. Best regards. JBF, irritating QA people. -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] LO 3.6.2 : about Manage dialog from Conditional Formatting
Hi all, Now, the bottleneck fdo#54498 has been fixed for LO 3.6.2, it is a great step toward making LO 3.6 usable for production ! So I think it's time for developers to consider the severe UX issue we have with the Edit dialog from manage screen in Format - Conditional Formatting - Manage. The problem has been described in fdo#54774, fdo#54940, and on QA and UX-advise mailing-list. We had very few answers and only one developer (Markus) point of view. So I decided to ask on developers ML as it is a developer problem. To make the story short, I think it is crucial to make the Edit dialog from Format CF Manage Button Edit to work exactly in the same way as Format CF CF, regardless the constraints from using relative references. My main argument is here : http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2012-September/002653.html This Manage dialog is very important as it gives a summary of all CF defined in the current sheet. It is a long waited function for all peoples who are using CF in their spreadsheets. So a big thank you to Markus for that. But now it is important to not give a bad user experience with this new great function. If nothing is possible, I think the better thing to do is to remove the button Edit from the Manage dialog. Best regards. JBF, irritating QA people. -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
