[Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Hi all,

I started  
for collection and discussion of all activities related to that decision.


Please feel free to add more action items and / or comments.

Discussion if necessary please here in this thread on 
 or on Wiki Discussion page.


When will we get the first 4.0 Master builds?


Best regards

Rainer
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[V Stuart Foote]

Hmm, so looking at Michael's minutes the 8 Nov ESC minutes there was this one
entry regards a 4.0 release.

AA: + bump versions sooner than later, to find hard-coded '3's (Petr) 

And in the initial wiki table you included an item:

10  Marketing issues2   We need some explication for the 
decision better
than "OOoo also release 4.0"Marketing

So just why is the project moving to a 4.0 build now?

I'd also comment, that similar for the AOOo folks, there is a lot of work to
be done to implement the IBM contributed \winaccessibility "native" code and
move Windows clients off of the Java Accessibility Bridge and into parity
with the other OSs by implementing IAccessible2.  

I've seen nothing about that effort, and that is a major milestone for the
folks on the Apache OpenOffice dev team that they've said will be a major
component of their 4.0  release.   Where is the LibreOffice Dev team and BOD
on the effort?

Assuming that we will make the effort to implement, I've added an item to
the 3.7 - 4.0 QA matrix to "verify consistent a11y support".

Stuart



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Robert Großkopf]

Hi *,

when I read "Version 4.0" I think there should happen a lot in a program
for a complete new version.

Since many years for Base was discussed, that there has to be a change
in the database of OOo- and LO-Base. But this discussion, if this should
be the newer HSQLDB or anything else, didn't progress. And when I see
the bugs in Base, particularly the regressions from 3.3 to 3.4 to 3.5 to
3.6 → I don't know if the database would be usable any more with a very
different version No. 4.

Regards

Robert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Michael Stahl]

On 11/11/12 20:17, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> I'd also comment, that similar for the AOOo folks, there is a lot of work to
> be done to implement the IBM contributed \winaccessibility "native" code and
> move Windows clients off of the Java Accessibility Bridge and into parity
> with the other OSs by implementing IAccessible2.  
> 
> I've seen nothing about that effort, and that is a major milestone for the
> folks on the Apache OpenOffice dev team that they've said will be a major
> component of their 4.0  release.   Where is the LibreOffice Dev team and BOD
> on the effort?

regarding IAccessible2 the current status is that we are still waiting
for that to be _actually_ contributed to AOO.  i am following the AOO
commit mailing list and have seen no activity related to that.

it is good that you have heard that IBM will finally contribute this for
AOO 4.0; you are more up to date with IBM's plans than me :)

regards,
 michael

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Michael Stahl]

On 11/11/12 20:59, Robert Großkopf wrote:
> Hi *,
> 
> when I read "Version 4.0" I think there should happen a lot in a program
> for a complete new version.
> 
> Since many years for Base was discussed, that there has to be a change
> in the database of OOo- and LO-Base. But this discussion, if this should
> be the newer HSQLDB or anything else, didn't progress.

it did progress a fair bit:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51781

after eliminating the databases that don't meet our requirements,
Firebird remains :)

but unfortunately it doesn't seem anybody is actually working on that...

> And when I see
> the bugs in Base, particularly the regressions from 3.3 to 3.4 to 3.5 to
> 3.6 → I don't know if the database would be usable any more with a very
> different version No. 4.

version 4 will have much less breaking changes than initially planned,
so it shouldn't break more than previous releases :)

testing of master builds is always appreciated of course (speaking of
which, somebody just did that last week and reported that the HSQLDB
driver performance had regressed on Linux because a bug fix was
accidentally "disabled", this is fixed again now...)


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[V Stuart Foote]

Michael,

I have assumed that since the ASF Board has graduated the OpenOffice project
from incubator to an Apache "top level" project, that all the contributed
code base had been accepted and now falls under ALv2 provision.  When I've
looked at the IBM and Oracle contributed source code the individual files do
not yet bear ALv2 release, but were all covered by a blanket ALv2 release
further up the incubator code base.

So, I don't know for sure, but it sure looks like the release has been made.  
How could one find out?  Should that be an ODF BOD action?

Stuart



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[V Stuart Foote]

So I was edited out of the 3.7 - 4.0 todo rename matrix. Know it happens, 
but thanks Niko only  a little harsh...
Here is the item, judge for yourself if it should have come out:

−
| 12 
−
| verify consistent ''a11y'' support 
−
| 1 
−
| QA actions upon implementation of ATK/AT-SPI and IAccessible2 APIs for ALL
OS, with adoption of IBM Symphony contribution to Apache \winaccessibility
native bridge under ALv2, and adjustments to UNO Accessibility roles to fill
all needed a11y roles for various Assistive Technology will all need to be
validated as functioning correctly. 
−
|  
−
| 
 −
| 2 
−
| See meta tracking bugs:
[https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55571 fdo#55571] OS X,
[https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36549 fdo#36549] GNOME-ATK and
several open enhancement requests for Windows 




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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Petr Mladek]

Rainer Bielefeld píše v Ne 11. 11. 2012 v 13:19 +0100:
> Hi all,
> 
> I started  
> for collection and discussion of all activities related to that decision.
>
> Please feel free to add more action items and / or comments.
> 
> Discussion if necessary please here in this thread on 
>  or on Wiki Discussion page.
> 
> When will we get the first 4.0 Master builds?

I am going to look at it. I hope that the first daily build will have
4.0 on Wednesday.

Anyway, I think that we do not need any complex planing and
synchronization. My approach would be to rename 3.7 to 4.0 anywhere you
see it in the sources, wiki, bugzilla, website...


Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Michael Meeks]

On Sun, 2012-11-11 at 11:17 -0800, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> And in the initial wiki table you included an item:

Someone did - I have no idea where that came from.

> So just why is the project moving to a 4.0 build now?

There are a lot of reasons - we need to articulate those clearly and
publicly, that much is obvious; I've provided a few positive pointers
there now. On the other hand I am personally dead busy until the
feature-freeze - so I (for one) won't be spending the last, v. precious
three weeks writing marketing blurb for something that launches in early
Feb ;-)

> Assuming that we will make the effort to implement

I've addressed this.

> I've added an item to the 3.7 - 4.0 QA matrix to "verify
> consistent a11y support".

What is developed, committed and ready by feature freeze is what we
will ship in 4.0. Post feature-freeze we will primarily be focusing on
bug fixing to get a good quality release. We do a time based release,
not a feature-based one so adding requested features to the wiki is not
a way to get a feature into a given release (sorry) though I share and
appreciate your eagerness for this feature :-)

I addressed the other aspects of the IAcc2 issues on the developers
list in response to your mail. It is a -very- sad situation there
(still) after all these years, lets hope it improves soon.

All the best,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Michael Meeks]

On Sun, 2012-11-11 at 13:29 -0800, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> So, I don't know for sure, but it sure looks like the release has been made.  
> How could one find out?  Should that be an ODF BOD action?

You could go ask the Apache project :-) Until that code has clear
Apache headers on it, and (ideally) is merged into AOO master - I don't
believe we should look at it in any detail.

That's something extremely easy for IBM to do - a few simple sed
scripts; that they havn't done it thus far is itself interesting. Last I
heard they were talking about creating novel legal authorities for other
people to do the work, and/or re-checking in the whole code with new
headers etc. Either way it seems pretty clear that the ball is out of
our court here, sadly.

ATB,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Petr Mladek]

Petr Mladek píše v Po 12. 11. 2012 v 09:55 +0100:
> Rainer Bielefeld píše v Ne 11. 11. 2012 v 13:19 +0100:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I started  
> > for collection and discussion of all activities related to that decision.
> >
> > Please feel free to add more action items and / or comments.
> > 
> > Discussion if necessary please here in this thread on 
> >  or on Wiki Discussion page.
> > 
> > When will we get the first 4.0 Master builds?
> 
> I am going to look at it. I hope that the first daily build will have
> 4.0 on Wednesday.

I have just pushed the version update into master. The upcoming daily
builds should have the version 4.0.

The first build looked fine. Let's see if there is still "3" or 3.7"
hidden somewhere.


Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Roman Eisele]

Am 12.11.12 12:37, schrieb Petr Mladek:

I have just pushed the version update into master. The upcoming daily
builds should have the version 4.0.

The first build looked fine. Let's see if there is still "3" or 3.7"
hidden somewhere.


Thanks! The newest master build for Mac OS X at

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/MacOSX-Intel@27-OSX_10.7.0-gcc_4.2.1_llvm/master/2012-11-13_00.32.26/

is already labelled "4.0". A first quick check shows that the change has 
worked for all obvious items (installation file name, about box etc.); 
even the "Check for updates" feature correctly answers "There are no 
updates for LibreOffice 4.0". Nice!


But this was only a quick check, so please all keep your eyes open and 
look out for any remaining mentions of "3.x" ...


Best regards,

Roman

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Pedro]

Just download my first 4.0 master. Everything seems to be ok.

It was a nice touch that the installation folder was renamed from LODev 3.7
to LODev 4.0

However because the personal data folder changed from LOdev\3 to LOdev\4
nothing was imported (and the now useless LOdev\3 folder was left
behind...).

It is important that this is fixed before 4.0 is released ;)



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Rainer Bielefeld]

However because the personal data folder changed from LOdev\3 to LOdev\4
nothing was imported (and the now useless LOdev\3 folder was left
behind...).



Hi Pedro,

This is not a todo, but might be a bug. Can you please create a Bug report?

Best regards


Rainer
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Michael Meeks]

On Tue, 2012-11-13 at 03:18 -0800, Pedro wrote:
> However because the personal data folder changed from LOdev\3 to LOdev\4
> nothing was imported (and the now useless LOdev\3 folder was left
> behind...).

Yep :-)

> It is important that this is fixed before 4.0 is released ;)

So - we need to come up with a working migration story there of course.
Quite prolly leaving the 3/ settings around is the right solution anyway
for downgraders; but migrating data to 4/ is also important clearly.

Thanks for testing ! :-)

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Pedro]

@Rainer

Done ;)
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57061

@Michael


Michael Meeks-2 wrote
>   So - we need to come up with a working migration story there of course.
> Quite prolly leaving the 3/ settings around is the right solution anyway
> for downgraders; but migrating data to 4/ is also important clearly.

I added this suggestion:

Maybe the \3 folder can be optionally left around (in case people want to go
back). I would recommend that during install user input was  requested.
Something like  "Your personal data has been migrated to version 4. Would
you like to remove the outdated personal folder?"

I believe this solves the problem with downgraders. Unless you also want to
add a downgrade migration tool for people who install 4.x first and then
decide to go back :)

Cheers,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Roman Eisele]

Am 13.11.12 12:42, schrieb Olivier Hallot:

Hi
Did we address the change in users profile?
$HOME/.libreoffice/3/user/
Thanks
Olivier


Hi Olivier -- a good idea to check this! Yes, the latest master build 
for Mac OS X correctly creates the user profile folder at


  ~/Library/Application Support/LOdev/4/user/
  ^
which should map to $HOME/.libreoffice/4/user/ or so on Linux ... So 
this should be OK.


But there is a problem: at least on a quick check, I get the impression 
that LOdev does NOT migrate any settings from the /LOdev/3/user to the 
/LOdev/4/user/ profile -- not even the general settings, like my user 
name, or the selected JRE appear in /LOdev/4/user/ profile. It seems 
that the new (4) user profile is created from scratch, without 
attempting to copy any data from the old (3) user profile folder.


Maybe I should report this as a bug?!


Best regards,

Roman

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Thorsten Behrens]

Roman Eisele wrote:
> But there is a problem: at least on a quick check, I get the
> impression that LOdev does NOT migrate any settings from the
> /LOdev/3/user to the /LOdev/4/user/ profile -- not even the general
> settings, like my user name, or the selected JRE appear in
> /LOdev/4/user/ profile. It seems that the new (4) user profile is
> created from scratch, without attempting to copy any data from the
> old (3) user profile folder.
> 
I Cc Stephan & Cedric, who IIRC both mentioned intention to work on
profile migration.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


pgp3pYdsby8JF.pgp
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 11/13/2012 07:35 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

Roman Eisele wrote:

But there is a problem: at least on a quick check, I get the
impression that LOdev does NOT migrate any settings from the
/LOdev/3/user to the /LOdev/4/user/ profile -- not even the general
settings, like my user name, or the selected JRE appear in
/LOdev/4/user/ profile. It seems that the new (4) user profile is
created from scratch, without attempting to copy any data from the
old (3) user profile folder.


I Cc Stephan & Cedric, who IIRC both mentioned intention to work on
profile migration.


No, I never intended to work on user-profile migration between now and 
feature freeze.  I had merely tried to express my hope that those who 
promote this late 3.7 to 4.0 rename would have that covered on their agenda.


Stephan
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Petr Mladek]

Roman Eisele píše v Út 13. 11. 2012 v 19:01 +0100:
> Am 13.11.12 12:42, schrieb Olivier Hallot:
> > Hi
> > Did we address the change in users profile?
> > $HOME/.libreoffice/3/user/
> > Thanks
> > Olivier
> 
> Hi Olivier -- a good idea to check this! Yes, the latest master build 
> for Mac OS X correctly creates the user profile folder at
> 
>~/Library/Application Support/LOdev/4/user/
>^
> which should map to $HOME/.libreoffice/4/user/ or so on Linux ... So 
> this should be OK.
> 
> But there is a problem: at least on a quick check, I get the impression 
> that LOdev does NOT migrate any settings from the /LOdev/3/user to the 
> /LOdev/4/user/ profile -- not even the general settings, like my user 
> name, or the selected JRE appear in /LOdev/4/user/ profile. It seems 
> that the new (4) user profile is created from scratch, without 
> attempting to copy any data from the old (3) user profile folder.

Ah, the XDG_CONFIG_HOME migration fights back once again. It tries to
migrate ~/.libreoffice/3 but not the new ~/.config/libreoffice/3 on
Linux. It seems that it somehow affects MAC as well. I am looking at it.

BTW: It should work on Windows out of box.


Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[klaus-jürgen weghorn ol]

Am 14.11.2012 13:31, schrieb Petr Mladek:

Roman Eisele píše v Út 13. 11. 2012 v 19:01 +0100:

Am 13.11.12 12:42, schrieb Olivier Hallot:

Hi
Did we address the change in users profile?
$HOME/.libreoffice/3/user/
Thanks
Olivier


Hi Olivier -- a good idea to check this! Yes, the latest master build
for Mac OS X correctly creates the user profile folder at

~/Library/Application Support/LOdev/4/user/
^
which should map to $HOME/.libreoffice/4/user/ or so on Linux ... So
this should be OK.

But there is a problem: at least on a quick check, I get the impression
that LOdev does NOT migrate any settings from the /LOdev/3/user to the
/LOdev/4/user/ profile -- not even the general settings, like my user
name, or the selected JRE appear in /LOdev/4/user/ profile. It seems
that the new (4) user profile is created from scratch, without
attempting to copy any data from the old (3) user profile folder.


Ah, the XDG_CONFIG_HOME migration fights back once again. It tries to
migrate ~/.libreoffice/3 but not the new ~/.config/libreoffice/3 on
Linux. It seems that it somehow affects MAC as well. I am looking at it.

BTW: It should work on Windows out of box.


I don't think so:
Version 4.0.0.0.alpha0+ (Build ID: a2b3ee):
master~2012-11-13_06.07.28_LibO-Dev_4.0.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86_install_en-US

WIN7HP64bit

There aren't any of my user-defined wordbooks nor user datas in the 
options (name, surname).


--
Grüße
k-j
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 11/14/2012 02:46 PM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote:

Am 14.11.2012 13:31, schrieb Petr Mladek:

BTW: It should work on Windows out of box.


I don't think so:


See the discussion of the "MIGRATED" flag file at 
.


Stephan
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ToDos rename 3.7 to 4.0

[Petr Mladek]

klaus-jürgen weghorn ol píše v St 14. 11. 2012 v 14:46 +0100:
> Am 14.11.2012 13:31, schrieb Petr Mladek:
> > Roman Eisele píše v Út 13. 11. 2012 v 19:01 +0100:
> >> Am 13.11.12 12:42, schrieb Olivier Hallot:
> >>> Hi
> >>> Did we address the change in users profile?
> >>> $HOME/.libreoffice/3/user/
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Olivier
> >>
> >> Hi Olivier -- a good idea to check this! Yes, the latest master build
> >> for Mac OS X correctly creates the user profile folder at
> >>
> >> ~/Library/Application Support/LOdev/4/user/
> >> ^
> >> which should map to $HOME/.libreoffice/4/user/ or so on Linux ... So
> >> this should be OK.
> >>
> >> But there is a problem: at least on a quick check, I get the impression
> >> that LOdev does NOT migrate any settings from the /LOdev/3/user to the
> >> /LOdev/4/user/ profile -- not even the general settings, like my user
> >> name, or the selected JRE appear in /LOdev/4/user/ profile. It seems
> >> that the new (4) user profile is created from scratch, without
> >> attempting to copy any data from the old (3) user profile folder.
> >
> > Ah, the XDG_CONFIG_HOME migration fights back once again. It tries to
> > migrate ~/.libreoffice/3 but not the new ~/.config/libreoffice/3 on
> > Linux. It seems that it somehow affects MAC as well. I am looking at it.

This should get fixed by 
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=c82b6096efb856220b8d1dafd9ba3e1f167e2d89

I am able to migrate all the following directories now:
~/.config/libreoffice/3
~/.libreoffice/3
~/.openoffice.org/3


> > BTW: It should work on Windows out of box.
> 
> I don't think so:
> Version 4.0.0.0.alpha0+ (Build ID: a2b3ee):
> master~2012-11-13_06.07.28_LibO-Dev_4.0.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86_install_en-US
> 
> WIN7HP64bit
> 
> There aren't any of my user-defined wordbooks nor user datas in the 
> options (name, surname).

Hmm, the supported migration paths are configured in registry, see the
"Migration" section at
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Setup.xcu#771

I see only the release versions there. It seems that migration from
"Dev" builds has never been supported. I guess that Dev builds could
inherit configuration from a release build but not from the older Dev
builds.

The best solution would be to produce build-specific registry entry. I
am not sure how to do it easily.

Anyway, the migration should work in the official Alpha, Beta, RC
builds.


Best Regards,
Petr

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