RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>That would be "Insert/Graphic/From File" but you knew that. Yeah. If "insert/graphic/from file" would accept SVG than I'd be cruisin'. ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Paul Scott wrote: Ray Peck wrote: How about using GIMP to capture the images and create any efficient image file you want to insert into your OpenOffice document? Here is an OpenOffice Writer document doing what you described with a JPEG which I believe is not proprietary. It was acquired with GIMP and cropped and scaled and saved as a JPEG and inserted into the document with "Insert/\Graphic fome file." In OpenOffice writer the image can be rescaled. That would be "Insert/Graphic/From File" but you knew that. Paul ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Ray Peck wrote: How about using GIMP to capture the images and create any efficient image file you want to insert into your OpenOffice document? I'm using GIMP for some things, but I want to avoid using pixmaps as much as possible, and I want to be able to edit the pasted-in image afterwards without keeping extra source. Building the notation in OOo Draw lets me do this: the notation is scalable to any size, and if I want to change it afterwards I can edit it however I like by pasting it back into Draw. If I could get SVG output to transfer from Lilypond to OOo, I would get beautiful, scalable notation and if I wanted to edit it later I could do so (in Draw). Here is an OpenOffice Writer document doing what you described with a JPEG which I believe is not proprietary. It was acquired with GIMP and cropped and scaled and saved as a JPEG and inserted into the document with "Insert/\Graphic fome file." In OpenOffice writer the image can be rescaled. Note that I did this quickly and the image is not of top quality. HTH, Paul test.sxw Description: Binary data
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>How about using GIMP to capture the images and create any efficient >image file you want to insert into your OpenOffice document? I'm using GIMP for some things, but I want to avoid using pixmaps as much as possible, and I want to be able to edit the pasted-in image afterwards without keeping extra source. Building the notation in OOo Draw lets me do this: the notation is scalable to any size, and if I want to change it afterwards I can edit it however I like by pasting it back into Draw. If I could get SVG output to transfer from Lilypond to OOo, I would get beautiful, scalable notation and if I wanted to edit it later I could do so (in Draw). ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Ray Peck wrote: Hi! I'm writing a document on music theory and New Standard Tuning (Robert Fripp's fifths-based guitar tuning). The first version of this was done with Word and Visio (hiss!); the new version is in OpenOffice. I'm adding notation to the new version of the doc (the first version only had fretboard diagrams), and would love to use Lilypond and the GUI front end to generate it. I want the images to scale (I don't want pixmaps). I guess EPS is possible, but that seems like heavy overkill for the dozens of little musical fragments that I want to build. From what I've been reading I can't quite figure out how to make Lilypond and OpenOffice play together nicely without writing a bunch of software myself, which I don't have time to do (e.g., writing an SVG backend for Lilypond and then a way to import SVG directly into OpenOffice). Do you have any clues for me about who else might be working on this? I really don't want to build notation note-by-note in OpenOffice Draw! How about using GIMP to capture the images and create any efficient image file you want to insert into your OpenOffice document? Paul Scott ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Thanks! We can move this discussion over to lilypond-devel. -Original Message- From: Guido Amoruso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:59 PM To: Ray Peck Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Jan Nieuwenhuizen'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice? On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 00:24, Ray Peck wrote: > BTW, I loaded those two sample sodipodi svg files into the Adobe > Reader. It renders partially, but it shows bounding boxes where > noteheads should be. Am I missing a font? Yes, I thik you are missing some pfa (perhaps...) fonts. I think Adobe Viewer cannot see them in any way: the trick is to use my svg font draft. But, as I told you in a private e-mail, the one I sent you is broken due to my broken lilypond istall: you can try to fix it yourself or I'll do as soon as possible! Guido ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 00:24, Ray Peck wrote: > BTW, I loaded those two sample sodipodi svg files into the Adobe > Reader. It renders partially, but it shows bounding boxes where > noteheads should be. Am I missing a font? Yes, I thik you are missing some pfa (perhaps...) fonts. I think Adobe Viewer cannot see them in any way: the trick is to use my svg font draft. But, as I told you in a private e-mail, the one I sent you is broken due to my broken lilypond istall: you can try to fix it yourself or I'll do as soon as possible! Guido ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Ray Peck wrote: > ... BTW, I loaded those two sample sodipodi svg files into the Adobe Reader. It renders partially, but it shows bounding boxes where noteheads should be. Am I missing a font? Certainly! Goto the Lilypond web page, click on Search, and search for sodipodi in the lilypond-devel mailing list archive. /Mats ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Thanks. My point in all of this is to get a document re-written, using Open Source software to allow others in my group to contribute to it. While I may be able to do some work to get this accomplished in the way I want (e.g., writing an XSLT transform to convert the Lilypond SVG output into an OpenOffice Draw document), I really don't have the time to do major ports of software. I spend my long work days doing this stuff; my evenings are reserved for my 5-year-old son. And I need to get this document done soon (in weeks, not months). So for now my game plan will be: 1. Try to get 1.7.9 to compile under Cygwin. 2. If that seems hopeless, build on my Linux box. This would be bad, because as I said I'll do most of this work during work hours, and our network drops my ssh connections to home every 2 minutes or so. . . 3. Write an XSLT filter to transform the SVG output to something that OO Draw will read. 4. If this all takes very long, I'll be drawing notation "by hand". BTW, I loaded those two sample sodipodi svg files into the Adobe Reader. It renders partially, but it shows bounding boxes where noteheads should be. Am I missing a font? -Original Message- From: Han-Wen Nienhuys [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:22 PM To: Ray Peck Cc: 'Jan Nieuwenhuizen'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice? [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >> Isn't "Denemo" a GUI front end for Lilypond? > > > >Yes, but it is not "the" GUI. Denemo development has been stagnant for > >a year or so now. If you need a GUI, you can try RoseGarden > >(rosegarden.sf.net) or Noteedit > >(http://rnvs.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/noteedit/noteedit.html) > > Thanks. Problem is, I'm the only person in our group that > runs Linux, and both of these seem to be Linux-only. You could ask those developers what chances there are for a windows port. Qt is also available on MS, but there might be problems with licensing and with the MIDI/sequencing libraries. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >> Isn't "Denemo" a GUI front end for Lilypond? > > > >Yes, but it is not "the" GUI. Denemo development has been stagnant for > >a year or so now. If you need a GUI, you can try RoseGarden > >(rosegarden.sf.net) or Noteedit > >(http://rnvs.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/noteedit/noteedit.html) > > Thanks. Problem is, I'm the only person in our group that > runs Linux, and both of these seem to be Linux-only. You could ask those developers what chances there are for a windows port. Qt is also available on MS, but there might be problems with licensing and with the MIDI/sequencing libraries. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>> Isn't "Denemo" a GUI front end for Lilypond? > >Yes, but it is not "the" GUI. Denemo development has been stagnant for >a year or so now. If you need a GUI, you can try RoseGarden >(rosegarden.sf.net) or Noteedit >(http://rnvs.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/noteedit/noteedit.html) Thanks. Problem is, I'm the only person in our group that runs Linux, and both of these seem to be Linux-only. >SVG samples are in http://lilypond.org/~jan/sodipodi/ >(eg. trip.sodipodi) Thanks loads; I'll check 'em out. ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > 3. It is very likely that contributions to the project I'm > > working on will come from people to whom OpenOffice or Word > > will be a challenge; TeX is out of the question. Text-input > > Lilypond will also be out of the question for these people; > > the GUI will be required. > > >"The GUI" for lilypond? Which program is this? > > Isn't "Denemo" a GUI front end for Lilypond? Yes, but it is not "the" GUI. Denemo development has been stagnant for a year or so now. If you need a GUI, you can try RoseGarden (rosegarden.sf.net) or Noteedit (http://rnvs.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/noteedit/noteedit.html) SVG samples are in http://lilypond.org/~jan/sodipodi/ (eg. trip.sodipodi) -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>Maybe you want to read: > >http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html I first read that over 10 years ago, thanks. ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Ray Peck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>Adobe reader is not free software; I couldn't care less. > > Was someone here trying to start a religious war? Possibly, please bite ;-) What I meant to say was: I don't have that software, and I won't put much effort into supporting it. We'll want to target true SVG, but we don't have that yet. So ... > Second, I asked about whether Adobe's SVG reader can read > the output as a measure of the state of the SVG output and > nothing else. ... if you want to know if it works with some non-free software, you'll have to try yourself. If you get it to work, good for you. > Third, I don't understand why you are defending using EPS > above and shitting on the Adobe reader below. Maybe you want to read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html > If the SVG output is close to being able to work, it may > well be worth my effort. If it's far, it's probably not. > That's what I am trying to get a feel for. . . You'll have to try it. Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>If you want, I can send you a .sodipodi file. Sure, that would be swell. It would be most useful if you could send a real musical example from Lilypond, plus a very simple drawing example (e.g., a couple lines, a circle, a few characters of text). I'll compare the XML to what I find in OO and see how hard it would be to translate into its version of SVG. It oughtn't be too hard. Thanks! ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>Oh, wait, you could import the music as bitmaps, but that's probably >not what you meant, right? Yeah. That would be An Abomination. ;-) > 3. It is very likely that contributions to the project I'm > working on will come from people to whom OpenOffice or Word > will be a challenge; TeX is out of the question. Text-input > Lilypond will also be out of the question for these people; > the GUI will be required. >"The GUI" for lilypond? Which program is this? Isn't "Denemo" a GUI front end for Lilypond? ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 00:03, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >Adobe reader is not free software; I couldn't care less. > > > Second, I asked about whether Adobe's SVG reader can read > > the output as a measure of the state of the SVG output and > > nothing else. > > The only way to find out is to try out for yourself, since I don't > have Adobe SVG, and nor has Jan. If you want, I can send you a > .sodipodi file. I've played with a little trick with feta svg fonts just yesterday, then I've read you discussion and permit to join. I was able to create a basic and incomplete svg font based on Lilypond feta20.pfa: then I inserted it in the element in my sodipodi file (created with Lily 1.7.9) and visualized first with Batik on Linux [which is free software: only just a little bit too slow, takes about 3 minutes on a G3 700 with 256Mb...], then tested with Windows Adobe viewer. I think the export works perhaps even better than Lily developer think (good work!)... It should be readable with any viewer supporting svg fonts (let me know whether you know some more than those I'm using), so Sodipodi doesn't work in such a way! I can send my file to anyone interested (or send it directly to the list,just tell me if it is possible) and also a jpg/png export to make you see what I do see! In the next days I can also explain what I did. Bye, Guido ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >Adobe reader is not free software; I couldn't care less. > Second, I asked about whether Adobe's SVG reader can read > the output as a measure of the state of the SVG output and > nothing else. The only way to find out is to try out for yourself, since I don't have Adobe SVG, and nor has Jan. If you want, I can send you a .sodipodi file. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >EPS should be fine. Why do you feel that's overkill? > > I've used EPS in the past, but always found it to be slow and buggy. > Perhaps this is no longer true? > > I also am hoping for a simple workflow more along the lines of copy > and paste than "render and import". I also would like to have a > single source document if at all possible. In OO, as in Word, > the images can all live in the text document, and can be edited > from there. You don't need a software build process to render > your text. ;-) Since OO uses XML, you could write a tool (similar to lilypond-book) that does the "render and import" in an automated way. I'm not sure if that is less work than cutting and pasting by hand (not familiar with XML grokking). The SVG backend isn't up to end-user standards, so the only other option is EPS. Depending on the details (eg. does the EPS file include fonts?), EPSs will be larger. Also, PS is a freeform so rendering is going to be slower (if OO supports EPS rendering at all). However, Lily uses DVIPS to generate EPS, which should be pretty well-formed. Oh, wait, you could import the music as bitmaps, but that's probably not what you meant, right? > 3. It is very likely that contributions to the project I'm > working on will come from people to whom OpenOffice or Word > will be a challenge; TeX is out of the question. Text-input > Lilypond will also be out of the question for these people; > the GUI will be required. "The GUI" for lilypond? Which program is this? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>ie, a procedure that can't be automated, nor checked, and with no >chance of recovery when (not if) the word processor fails. The >horror... Not at all. OpenOffice's native format is XML. If everything went to hell, I can always get the data out with XSLT or parse it info Jdom and do whatever I like with it. >> Can it generate SVG that the Adobe reader (for example) >> can render correctly? >Adobe reader is not free software; I couldn't care less. Was someone here trying to start a religious war? First, the whole point of the project is that I'm trying to move to free software from Microsoft. Second, I asked about whether Adobe's SVG reader can read the output as a measure of the state of the SVG output and nothing else. Third, I don't understand why you are defending using EPS above and shitting on the Adobe reader below. Even so, you may have to work on the svg output, EPS is probably the way to go. If the SVG output is close to being able to work, it may well be worth my effort. If it's far, it's probably not. That's what I am trying to get a feel for. . . Thanks. ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Ray Peck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've used EPS in the past, but always found it to be slow and buggy. > Perhaps this is no longer true? EPS is just PostScript without page definitions and a trailing showpage. It's never been slow or buggy, but possibly you've used/had to use slow or buggy software. > I also am hoping for a simple workflow more along the lines of copy > and paste than "render and import". I also would like to have a > single source document if at all possible. In OO, as in Word, > the images can all live in the text document, and can be edited > from there. ie, a procedure that can't be automated, nor checked, and with no chance of recovery when (not if) the word processor fails. The horror... >>The obvious question is: have you considered using LaTeX, instead of a >>beast such as openoffice. Talking about overkill... > > I haven't seriously considered this for several reasons: [snip] Then I don't think you'll find much help here, but I could be wrong. >>There's a preliminary svg backend that can be used by sodipodi. > > This doesn't parse for me (yet). Sodipodi is a drawing program that uses svg files. > Can you define "needs some work" a bit more clearly? What shape > is it in? Font selection is non-standard and fragile, you can only use one font size yet, there are small problems with beams and slurs, brackets and other things have not been implemented yet. Unless you can put some effort into it, it's not really an option yet. > Can it generate SVG that the Adobe reader (for example) > can render correctly? Adobe reader is not free software; I couldn't care less. It might well read the file, but you'll most probably have to figure out how the program selects and locates fonts. If you find a good solution, we'll have to see if we can integrate it. > The notation fragments that I'm going to be working on are modest: > a line or two of grand staff, simple rhythms, few markup symbols. > I don't need to be able to generate complex scores. Even so, you may have to work on the svg output, EPS is probably the way to go. Greetings, Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
>EPS should be fine. Why do you feel that's overkill? I've used EPS in the past, but always found it to be slow and buggy. Perhaps this is no longer true? I also am hoping for a simple workflow more along the lines of copy and paste than "render and import". I also would like to have a single source document if at all possible. In OO, as in Word, the images can all live in the text document, and can be edited from there. You don't need a software build process to render your text. ;-) >The obvious question is: have you considered using LaTeX, instead of a >beast such as openoffice. Talking about overkill... I haven't seriously considered this for several reasons: 1. Although I've been exposed to TeX for many years (15?), I have never learned it. Learning it is a large task. My life is full of large tasks already! ;-) 2. I greatly prefer a wysiwyg tool for things that involve formatting. 3. It is very likely that contributions to the project I'm working on will come from people to whom OpenOffice or Word will be a challenge; TeX is out of the question. Text-input Lilypond will also be out of the question for these people; the GUI will be required. 4. I would like to use a server-side XSLT filter to render my OpenOffice Writer document to HTML for my website directly from the document (I don't want to have different versions of files for the source and the rendered HTML). >LilyPond and LaTeX play nicely together. Yes, I've noticed the family resemblance. >There's a preliminary svg backend that can be used by sodipodi. This doesn't parse for me (yet). >But you'll have to figure out what openoffice can do, and the svg >backend needs some work. Can you define "needs some work" a bit more clearly? What shape is it in? Can it generate SVG that the Adobe reader (for example) can render correctly? Is it mostly-working but incomplete? The notation fragments that I'm going to be working on are modest: a line or two of grand staff, simple rhythms, few markup symbols. I don't need to be able to generate complex scores. Right now I'm leaning toward building the notation symbol-by-symbol in OpenOffice Draw, and I *really* don't want to do that! Thanks. ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Ray Peck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I want the images to scale (I don't want pixmaps). I guess > EPS is possible, but that seems like heavy overkill for the > dozens of little musical fragments that I want to build. EPS should be fine. Why do you feel that's overkill? > From what I've been reading I can't quite figure out how to > make Lilypond and OpenOffice play together nicely The obvious question is: have you considered using LaTeX, instead of a beast such as openoffice. Talking about overkill... LilyPond and LaTeX play nicely together. > without > writing a bunch of software myself, which I don't have time > to do (e.g., writing an SVG backend for Lilypond and then > a way to import SVG directly into OpenOffice). There's a preliminary svg backend that can be used by sodipodi. But you'll have to figure out what openoffice can do, and the svg backend needs some work. Greetings, Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Using Lilypond with OpenOffice?
Hi! I'm writing a document on music theory and New Standard Tuning (Robert Fripp's fifths-based guitar tuning). The first version of this was done with Word and Visio (hiss!); the new version is in OpenOffice. I'm adding notation to the new version of the doc (the first version only had fretboard diagrams), and would love to use Lilypond and the GUI front end to generate it. I want the images to scale (I don't want pixmaps). I guess EPS is possible, but that seems like heavy overkill for the dozens of little musical fragments that I want to build. >From what I've been reading I can't quite figure out how to make Lilypond and OpenOffice play together nicely without writing a bunch of software myself, which I don't have time to do (e.g., writing an SVG backend for Lilypond and then a way to import SVG directly into OpenOffice). Do you have any clues for me about who else might be working on this? I really don't want to build notation note-by-note in OpenOffice Draw! Thanks. ___ Lilypond-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
