Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
Question-probably naive, but anyway- why don't we keep an 'old kernel' package for those with older CPUs? I don't see that it would need maintenance-that's just what it is-dead weight for those who need really old machnes to work. Tell me if I'm wrong. But I vote to ditch PAE with th default kernel. Maybe have two kernels in the defult iso and some hardware detection in the installer to install the right kernel? (IDK if that's possible) On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:15:52 -0800 Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/18/2011 11:50 AM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: Last year they dropped support for a lot of machines, now they will drop for a lot more? A lot? How did you determine this, and can you let us know the numeric upper and lower bounds of a lot in the second phrase of this description? :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
And while we examine the fluff in our belly buttons. Can I ask once again that instead of grieving over non-pae chipsets that we instead allow our meager resources to keep 10.04 alive? This removes the issue of non-pae completely and just needs a simple edit to the wiki about the dropping of previous chipsets? As 10.04 was based on a LTS kernel for servers it has a life span of 5 years. We can then re address the problem in 2015 :) Having said that, some people are quite happy with 8.04 and see no need to upgrade - If it isn't broken don't fix it. Regards, Phill. On 19 November 2011 10:02, Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com wrote: Question-probably naive, but anyway- why don't we keep an 'old kernel' package for those with older CPUs? I don't see that it would need maintenance-that's just what it is-dead weight for those who need really old machnes to work. Tell me if I'm wrong. But I vote to ditch PAE with th default kernel. Maybe have two kernels in the defult iso and some hardware detection in the installer to install the right kernel? (IDK if that's possible) On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:15:52 -0800 Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/18/2011 11:50 AM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: Last year they dropped support for a lot of machines, now they will drop for a lot more? A lot? How did you determine this, and can you let us know the numeric upper and lower bounds of a lot in the second phrase of this description? :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
*As 10.04 was based on a LTS kernel for servers it has a life span of 5 years. We can then re address the problem in 2015 :)* * * If we cannot solve this now, I agree to re address the problem. But if we can find the solution on the next days, it is better. *Maybe have two kernels in the defult iso and some hardware detection in the installer to install the right kernel?* If this is possible, we can use the 10.04 kernel and never worry about this kind of problem anymore. =] att, Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
I would like to do some tests with the latest ubuntu on my old amd-k6 (wich runs Lubuntu 10.04 perfectly) but support for that CPU it's been dropped :( Then again, it's NOT only for the people who have a voice here: it's the users that have one of those pc wich want to use it and CAN'T It's a shame that an OS intended for old hardware can't run on hardware that can run it :( EVEN if it's 5% of the target machines... 5% of a huge number is still a huge number. Plus, there's no modern OS that can run there... OK, *maybe* some very oldl machines should be renewed... but there are people without the capability of doing so. AND i don't understand, the code is there... what's the benefit of cutting it? Just what i think about dropping support of any hardware. -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] Roadmap: Bugs to fix before pcmanfm 1.0 release.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2011-11-18 20:49, PCMan wrote: I just took hours and cleaned up the bug tracker of pcmanfm and did some triage for all of the opened bugs today. \o/ I hope this was not because you hate yourself or something. That sounds super boring and super important at the same time. Here are the remaining ones I'm going to fix for 1.0 release. http://goo.gl/2cT2x \o/ Custom actions support for the popup menus is already finished. (experimental and not recommended for daily use yet) Not in a branch at origin yet right? I'm not able to give a nice time table or release schedule since I have to find some spare time for coding. This is all I need. Fixed release dates and stuff like that I am not a fan of (but being vocal WHEN to release if there are good progress is something I am even more a fan of!). At FSCONS I stumbled over a talk about Fedora and they had their release plan in the slides, got me thinking that I should do the same thing I did some months ago with alining the release schedules. And as always I think the major distros freeze dates are of interest when trying to plan ahead. I hope people participating in the actual projects listed can confirm my interpretation of the schedules. Fedora: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/17/Schedule My assesment is that a release in February would be the last resort (not counting bugs). OpenSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap The latest release was this week, I am not sure how andrea coped with the summer releases I did. Hopefully it all went well =) For 12.2 the release date is 2012-07-12 and based on the release plan for 12.1 that would mean freezing in April or something like that. Lubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule (draft!?) The next Ubuntu release is a LTS, long term commitment and all that. February 16 at 21:00 UTC is the freeze, bugs and minor changes are generally accepted later on. Beta 2 freeze is set to the 22nd of March and more or less marks the final step to get things in. Only security updates are accepted beyond here. Debian: http://release.debian.org The freeze is set to June 2012, so no later than May? (bugs and such aside) Arch linux does not schedule releases as far as I have understood. Based on this I would say that having major changes (API or others) is no later than February 2012. That would target both Fedora and Lubuntu well. Releases in April/May would be good things for OpenSUSE and Debian. There will be no change in strings/translations, or UI. If we have someone brave enough that has English as mother tongue I would welcome a complete reread of the application, no specific end date. Such a debate probably should go to lxde-i...@lists.sf.net though before we change the strings. But still. Not a bad thing to do every now and then. Maybe ask people in the distribution i18n communities to help with this if they have the time to do it? Arch? Debian? Fedora? Lubuntu? OpenSUSE? - -- brother http://sis.bthstudent.se -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJOx8GyAAoJEJbdSEaj0jV7+z0H/iOnKGatMu6WBe3hqyHwukT0 qBOEJXNRR8Bt8ssXjJ31DUP2QO4yiMwQxb5MavgX9q2dkO+3btHWrBu+3CsOLi05 UuvuIAtpgrtyRZPtbkQwzXsMxNo9ezGWi1Khg0MeYIFV5rLFRABzODtmdDmUfqbl PL4Ft/AgzS+RnAtMLSfkPeYs5XgpFsJV1nDRhAY/1vXOaxIBDmY9SnIFTwSL5omU vq4neD8rRvxRDc9dd9Zq6KA1eTRjdLykTrik7UlvI/tnKIyPdgJmQR/ufB4Isx20 zn7jM0ljwOe3rFeHZIe7zLZjY69Db9uRPTQ2pDHu3sRRxrK/neAuPLvdD9hEQvk= =mFSZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
I really cant see why you're all (except dear JM ;) crying after obsolete hardware. If this kind of decissions are never made, People will never recycle these power hungry computers with more decent ones. What I've been keeping eye on Ubuntu, it has lost support for older hardware around 9.04. If you really want to have support for older computers, you could check another distro. Something Slackware based for example. SalixOS ain't a bad option. They have i486 kernel, you can choose from LXDE, Fluxbox, XFCE4 and Ratpoison. Slapt-get is not that far from apt-get. I dont want to sound harsh, but sometimes people should just let go with old hardware. Old x86 hardware is not a gem in a collection, it's just a soulless piece of computer techonology, unlike C-64's, Amiga's and Atari's, and some other machines like any SGI. And companies are now in here ditching the first generation Core 2 Duo machines, anything below that is hazardous waste. I'm wondering why people keeps those Pentium II's and Celerons hanging around. Computing can't be fun with slow machines. You can buy Intel Atom boards for almost free, those will pay itself back in electricity bill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CPU_power_dissipation). http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_BIN=1LH_PrefLoc=2_trkparms=65%253A15%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1rt=nc_nkw=intel+atom_sc=1_sticky=1_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_sop=12_sc=1 On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:38:18 -0400 Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to do some tests with the latest ubuntu on my old amd-k6 (wich runs Lubuntu 10.04 perfectly) but support for that CPU it's been dropped :( Then again, it's NOT only for the people who have a voice here: it's the users that have one of those pc wich want to use it and CAN'T It's a shame that an OS intended for old hardware can't run on hardware that can run it :( EVEN if it's 5% of the target machines... 5% of a huge number is still a huge number. Plus, there's no modern OS that can run there... OK, *maybe* some very oldl machines should be renewed... but there are people without the capability of doing so. AND i don't understand, the code is there... what's the benefit of cutting it? Just what i think about dropping support of any hardware. -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On 20 November 2011 00:38, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to do some tests with the latest ubuntu on my old amd-k6 (wich runs Lubuntu 10.04 perfectly) but support for that CPU it's been dropped :( Then again, it's NOT only for the people who have a voice here: it's the users that have one of those pc wich want to use it and CAN'T It's a shame that an OS intended for old hardware can't run on hardware that can run it :( EVEN if it's 5% of the target machines... 5% of a huge number is still a huge number. Plus, there's no modern OS that can run there... OK, *maybe* some very oldl machines should be renewed... but there are people without the capability of doing so. AND i don't understand, the code is there... what's the benefit of cutting it? Just what i think about dropping support of any hardware. -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp This is what we're trying to work out, how many people actually have and use hardware that will be affected. So far you are the only one reporting the fact that it won't work on your hardware. If anyone else can run the command listed earlier in the thread and let us know if there is no output we can gauge if it is going to be 5% or if it's going to be 0.005%. -- Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] Roadmap: Bugs to fix before pcmanfm 1.0 release.
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:49:58 +0800 PCMan pcman...@gmail.com wrote: I just took hours and cleaned up the bug tracker of pcmanfm and did some triage for all of the opened bugs today. Here are the remaining ones I'm going to fix for 1.0 release. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?limit=100func=group_id=156956atid=801864assignee=status=1category=artgroup=keyword=submitter=artifact_id=assignee=status=1category=artgroup=557433submitter=keyword=artifact_id=submit=Filtermass_category=mass_priority=mass_resolution=mass_assignee=mass_artgroup=mass_status=mass_cannedresponse=_visit_cookie=411641f74b63b494a940e7e7b370a98d The other ones are categorized and labeled with 1.1, 1.5, and 2.0 respectively. Thanks :) I saw that you can't reproduce some of the bugs I reported. Maybe you can test on a Live-CD or in a virtualbox install ? But in this situation, what information is useful for you and needed to be reported for these bugs ? Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] Roadmap: Bugs to fix before pcmanfm 1.0 release.
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:48:18 +0100 Martin Bagge / brother brot...@bsnet.se wrote: Lubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule (draft!?) The next Ubuntu release is a LTS, long term commitment and all that. February 16 at 21:00 UTC is the freeze, bugs and minor changes are generally accepted later on. Beta 2 freeze is set to the 22nd of March and more or less marks the final step to get things in. Only security updates are accepted beyond here. 2 dates are important in our schedules : - February 16: No new features (bug fixes and translations are still OK) - April 12th: No change. Bug fixes (only for critical bugs) need validation after this date. Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:25:16 +0800 PCMan pcman...@gmail.com wrote: Is it possible to keep an unofficial kernel for old abandoned cpus in lubuntu ppa, if there are people willing to maintain it? No, it's too complex to properly maintain a kernel. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:10:12 -0800 Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: *If* this proposed change makes it impractical to run on a Pentium II, we need to stand up and be counted. If (as I suspect) it only prevents use on Pentium I, really old AMD, VIA C3 and Geode, then ... that's a much smaller population of still-working computers, and I suggest we let it slide. It's the point. Even the kernel team was not able to determine the range of hardware affected. If we can confirm that it's only this CPU (which, I think, was already dropped for 10.10), no need to fight. Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:43:32 +1000 Jared Norris jrnor...@gmail.com wrote: So to this end, my question is, is there a simple command people can run to see if their CPU can run PAE kernels? I would have thought if cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep pae would not give any output if the CPUs weren't capable? I'm not an expert so just wanting to confirm. That way, instead of just complaining we can request users run this, see if they will be affected and report back. We can then generate a team stance and report back to the Ubuntu developers with some real data. That's sound like a good plan, to be able to gather more information. I hope this support will not be dropped for 12.04, it will give us some time, until 12.10 when they will ask the same question for this support ... Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:47:19 -0800 Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: We already told the community we would support Lubuntu 10.04 as an LTS, so we should keep that commitment (though I don't think we are doing a very good job of it, to be honest!). But we made a commitment, so we should do what we can to honour it. That is not in question here. Correction, we told the community that we will try to keep 10.04 up-to-date as long as we can, eventually like a LTS. And yes, so far, it's not very good. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
