Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Steven Spencer]

All,

Regarding the availability of snapd for CentOS 7 (or Red Hat Enterprise),
you need only enable the epel repository prior to attempting to install
snapd:

yum install epel-release

Then install snapd:

yum update
yum install snapd

That's it.

Thanks,
Steven G. Spencer

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 3:30 PM  wrote:

> Hello
> have you read this documentation ?
> https://docs.snapcraft.io/installing-snap-on-centos/10020
>
> 26 février 2019 09:28 "Harald Dunkel"  a écrit:
>
> > On 2/25/19 11:20 AM, Stéphane Graber wrote:
> >> snapd + LXD work fine on CentOS 7, it's even in our CI environment, so
> >> presumably the same steps should work on RHEL 7.
> >>
> > Apparently it doesn't work that fine:
> >
> > [root@centos7 ~]# yum install snapd
> > Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, langpacks
> > Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
> > * base: ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de
> > * extras: ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de
> > * updates: mirror.infonline.de
> > No package snapd available.
> > Error: Nothing to do
> >
> > Of course I found some howtos on the net (e.g.
> > https://computingforgeeks.com/install-snapd-snap-applications-centos-7),
> > but thats not the point. The point is to integrate LXD without 3rd-party
> > tools that are difficult to find and install on their own.
> >
> > Surely I don't blame you for the not-invented-here approach of others,
> but
> > LXD appears to be difficult to build or integrate, even on native Debian.
> >
> > Regards
> > Harri
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> > http://lists.linuxcontainers.org/listinfo/lxc-users
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[lducos]

Hello
have you read this documentation ?  
https://docs.snapcraft.io/installing-snap-on-centos/10020

26 février 2019 09:28 "Harald Dunkel"  a écrit:

> On 2/25/19 11:20 AM, Stéphane Graber wrote:
>> snapd + LXD work fine on CentOS 7, it's even in our CI environment, so
>> presumably the same steps should work on RHEL 7.
>> 
> Apparently it doesn't work that fine:
> 
> [root@centos7 ~]# yum install snapd
> Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, langpacks
> Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
> * base: ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de
> * extras: ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de
> * updates: mirror.infonline.de
> No package snapd available.
> Error: Nothing to do
> 
> Of course I found some howtos on the net (e.g.
> https://computingforgeeks.com/install-snapd-snap-applications-centos-7),
> but thats not the point. The point is to integrate LXD without 3rd-party
> tools that are difficult to find and install on their own.
> 
> Surely I don't blame you for the not-invented-here approach of others, but
> LXD appears to be difficult to build or integrate, even on native Debian.
> 
> Regards
> Harri
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Richard Hector]

On 25/02/19 4:52 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 9:46 PM Richard Hector  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I see that lxd in ubuntu cosmic and disco is a transitional package for
> snap - I see that lxd can be used for snap packages, but they're not the
> same thing, right?
> 
> 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-August/040455.html
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxd/+bug/1788040
>  
> 
> And Debian buster (even sid) still doesn't have lxd at all.
> 
> 
> They have snapd. Which you can then use to instal lxd.
>  
> 
> Is lxd not the future of lxc after all? At least in debian-based
> distros? Or is it expected (by ubuntu) that we only use lxc for snap
> packages?
> 
> 
> You mean "use lxc from snap packages"?
> Read the two links above.

Ah. I see I had it all backwards.

This is unfortunate for those of us who don't really like the
snap(/flatpak/appimage/etc) model where we have to have (and keep
current) multiple copies of the same software to get around dependency
issues.

It also doesn't fit very well with the Debian stable model, if the snap
package is coming from outside Debian.

Oh well - I guess the lxc package is sticking around, right? And maybe
someone will pick up packaging lxd for Debian.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Harald Dunkel]

On 2/25/19 11:20 AM, Stéphane Graber wrote:
> snapd + LXD work fine on CentOS 7, it's even in our CI environment, so
> presumably the same steps should work on RHEL 7.
>
Apparently it doesn't work that fine:

[root@centos7 ~]# yum install snapd
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, langpacks
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
 * base: ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de
 * extras: ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de
 * updates: mirror.infonline.de
No package snapd available.
Error: Nothing to do

Of course I found some howtos on the net (e.g.
https://computingforgeeks.com/install-snapd-snap-applications-centos-7/),
but thats not the point. The point is to integrate LXD without 3rd-party
tools that are difficult to find and install on their own.

Surely I don't blame you for the not-invented-here approach of others, but
LXD appears to be difficult to build or integrate, even on native Debian.


Regards
Harri
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Fajar A. Nugraha]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Stéphane Graber 
wrote:

> snapd + LXD work fine on CentOS 7, it's even in our CI environment, so
> presumably the same steps should work on RHEL 7.
>
>
Awesome !

> In the past I've built private RPMs for lxd on centos. It became a hassle
> though as (for example) I need to port additional packages as well. And I
> needed to change the kernel to a newer one, unsupported by centos. But it
> works.
> >
> > So if you're willing to build from source, it should still work.
>

I forgot to mention that this was on an ancient centos 6, not 7 :)

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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Stéphane Graber]

snapd + LXD work fine on CentOS 7, it's even in our CI environment, so
presumably the same steps should work on RHEL 7.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:54 AM Fajar A. Nugraha  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 3:15 PM Harald Dunkel  wrote:
>>
>> On 2/25/19 4:52 AM, Fajar A. Nugraha wrote:
>> >
>> > snapcraft.io  is also owned by Canonical.
>> >
>> > By using lxd snap, they can easly have lxd running on any distro that 
>> > already support snaps, without having to maintain separate packages.
>> >
>>
>> The problem is that there is no standard for all "major" distros,
>> as this discussion shows:
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/redhat/comments/9lbm0c/snapd_for_rhel/
>>
>
> You mean "RHEL doesn't have snapd"? You'd have to ask redhat then.
>
>>
>> Debian already has an excellent packaging scheme.
>
>
> Sure.
>
> The question now is "is anybody willing to maintain debian lxd packages"
>
>>
>> The RPM world
>> doesn't follow snapd, as it seems.
>
>
> Really?
> https://docs.snapcraft.io/installing-snap-on-fedora/6755
>
>>
>> And if you prefer your favorite
>> tool inside a container you can find docker images everywhere.
>>
>> A few years ago compatibility was achieved on source code level.
>> Sorry to say, but you lost that for lxd. And snaps are not a
>> replacement.
>>
>
> In the past I've built private RPMs for lxd on centos. It became a hassle 
> though as (for example) I need to port additional packages as well. And I 
> needed to change the kernel to a newer one, unsupported by centos. But it 
> works.
>
> So if you're willing to build from source, it should still work.
>
> --
> Fajar
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Fajar A. Nugraha]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 3:15 PM Harald Dunkel 
wrote:

> On 2/25/19 4:52 AM, Fajar A. Nugraha wrote:
> >
> > snapcraft.io  is also owned by Canonical.
> >
> > By using lxd snap, they can easly have lxd running on any distro that
> already support snaps, without having to maintain separate packages.
> >
>
> The problem is that there is no standard for all "major" distros,
> as this discussion shows:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/redhat/comments/9lbm0c/snapd_for_rhel/
>
>
You mean "RHEL doesn't have snapd"? You'd have to ask redhat then.


> Debian already has an excellent packaging scheme.


Sure.

The question now is "is anybody willing to maintain debian lxd packages"


> The RPM world
> doesn't follow snapd, as it seems.


Really?
https://docs.snapcraft.io/installing-snap-on-fedora/6755


> And if you prefer your favorite
> tool inside a container you can find docker images everywhere.
>
> A few years ago compatibility was achieved on source code level.
> Sorry to say, but you lost that for lxd. And snaps are not a
> replacement.
>
>
In the past I've built private RPMs for lxd on centos. It became a hassle
though as (for example) I need to port additional packages as well. And I
needed to change the kernel to a newer one, unsupported by centos. But it
works.

So if you're willing to build from source, it should still work.

-- 
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Harald Dunkel]

On 2/25/19 4:52 AM, Fajar A. Nugraha wrote:


snapcraft.io  is also owned by Canonical.

By using lxd snap, they can easly have lxd running on any distro that already 
support snaps, without having to maintain separate packages.



The problem is that there is no standard for all "major" distros,
as this discussion shows:

https://www.reddit.com/r/redhat/comments/9lbm0c/snapd_for_rhel/

Debian already has an excellent packaging scheme. The RPM world
doesn't follow snapd, as it seems. And if you prefer your favorite
tool inside a container you can find docker images everywhere.

A few years ago compatibility was achieved on source code level.
Sorry to say, but you lost that for lxd. And snaps are not a
replacement.


Just my own $0.02. Regards
Harri
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Fajar A. Nugraha]

On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 9:46 PM Richard Hector 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I see that lxd in ubuntu cosmic and disco is a transitional package for
> snap - I see that lxd can be used for snap packages, but they're not the
> same thing, right?
>
>
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-August/040455.html
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxd/+bug/1788040


> And Debian buster (even sid) still doesn't have lxd at all.
>
>
They have snapd. Which you can then use to instal lxd.


> Is lxd not the future of lxc after all? At least in debian-based
> distros? Or is it expected (by ubuntu) that we only use lxc for snap
> packages?
>
>
You mean "use lxc from snap packages"?
Read the two links above.


> I'm currently using lxc on debian, but wondering what happens next ...
>
> This all seems odd since the linuxcontainers site says the project is
> sponsored by Canonical ...
>
>
snapcraft.io is also owned by Canonical.

By using lxd snap, they can easly have lxd running on any distro that
already support snaps, without having to maintain separate packages.

-- 
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Richard Hector]

On 24/02/19 7:18 AM, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Greetings, Richard Hector!
> 
>> Yep, sure. But LXD is currently the most common way to manage LXC,
>> right?
> 
> Right? Right?! Riiight???!!
> 
> Sorry, but your insistence is not going to change the facts.

Steady on. I wasn't insisting on anything; I was checking my
assumptions. Maybe my New Zealand English usage is more unusual than I
thought.

I guess you're saying my assumption was wrong.

>> At least, when I ask LXC questions on here, people seem to be
>> surprised that I'm not using LXD.
> 
> I'm not using LXD. It's just not suitable for my use cases.

Ok. I'm not either, but that's more because it's not in Debian, and I
like to stick with packaged solutions where I can. I haven't even tried
it yet.

>> So with LXD transitioning to snap in Ubuntu, is it expected that LXD
>> will only be used for snap packages?
> 
>> And if I want to continue using LXC without snap, I won't get the
>> advantages of managing it with LXD?
> 
> I'd like to know the answer as well.

Right. We can both wait and see if someone else answers :-)

Richard
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Richard Hector!

> Yep, sure. But LXD is currently the most common way to manage LXC,
> right?

Right? Right?! Riiight???!!

Sorry, but your insistence is not going to change the facts.

> At least, when I ask LXC questions on here, people seem to be
> surprised that I'm not using LXD.

I'm not using LXD. It's just not suitable for my use cases.

> So with LXD transitioning to snap in Ubuntu, is it expected that LXD
> will only be used for snap packages?

> And if I want to continue using LXC without snap, I won't get the
> advantages of managing it with LXD?

I'd like to know the answer as well.
Snaps may be useful for distributors, but it's a maintenance headache for end
users.
Not to mention the growing disk space usage from snap packages.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Saturday, February 23, 2019 21:16:07

Sorry for my terrible english...

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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Richard Hector]

On 24/02/19 5:17 AM, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Greetings, Richard Hector!
> 
>> Hi all,
> 
>> I see that lxd in ubuntu cosmic and disco is a transitional package for
>> snap - I see that lxd can be used for snap packages, but they're not the
>> same thing, right?
> 
>> And Debian buster (even sid) still doesn't have lxd at all.
> 
>> Is lxd not the future of lxc after all?
> 
>> At least in debian-based distros? Or is it expected (by ubuntu) that we only
>> use lxc for snap packages?
> 
> LXC is containers, LXD is orchestration tool.
> You can't say that a flashlight is a future of lightbulb.
> They are simply not the same nor a replacement of each other.

Yep, sure. But LXD is currently the most common way to manage LXC,
right? At least, when I ask LXC questions on here, people seem to be
surprised that I'm not using LXD.

So with LXD transitioning to snap in Ubuntu, is it expected that LXD
will only be used for snap packages?

And if I want to continue using LXC without snap, I won't get the
advantages of managing it with LXD?

Richard
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Re: [lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Richard Hector!

> Hi all,

> I see that lxd in ubuntu cosmic and disco is a transitional package for
> snap - I see that lxd can be used for snap packages, but they're not the
> same thing, right?

> And Debian buster (even sid) still doesn't have lxd at all.

> Is lxd not the future of lxc after all?

> At least in debian-based distros? Or is it expected (by ubuntu) that we only
> use lxc for snap packages?

LXC is containers, LXD is orchestration tool.
You can't say that a flashlight is a future of lightbulb.
They are simply not the same nor a replacement of each other.

> I'm currently using lxc on debian, but wondering what happens next ...

> This all seems odd since the linuxcontainers site says the project is
> sponsored by Canonical ...


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Saturday, February 23, 2019 18:56:07

Sorry for my terrible english...

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[lxc-users] future of lxc/lxd? snap?

[Richard Hector]

Hi all,

I see that lxd in ubuntu cosmic and disco is a transitional package for
snap - I see that lxd can be used for snap packages, but they're not the
same thing, right?

And Debian buster (even sid) still doesn't have lxd at all.

Is lxd not the future of lxc after all? At least in debian-based
distros? Or is it expected (by ubuntu) that we only use lxc for snap
packages?

I'm currently using lxc on debian, but wondering what happens next ...

This all seems odd since the linuxcontainers site says the project is
sponsored by Canonical ...

Cheers,
Richard
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