Re: [Mailman-Users] Aliases file and upgrading

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> 1) Is there any problem with manually adding the extra alias 
>> owner-listname for each migrated list and
>> 2) Is is possible that mailman 2.1.9 is generating references to 
>> owner-listname and if so, is that a problem?
>
>
>I just found the answer to question 1.  If you add the alias manually it will 
>be removed when you run mailman's genaliases command.  I'm going to look at 
>postfix's virtual aliasing capabilities to see if I can solve this.


There are a few possible approaches to 1) (bear with me, I'm not a
postfix guy)

1a) map owner-listname to listname-owner in /etc/aliases or some other
non-mailman aliases file. This way I think you can avoid the 'group
mismatch error' that would result if you tried to pipe the
owner-listname address directly to the wrapper in an alias file not
owned by Mailman's user:group.

1b) add the owner-listname pipe alias to Mailman's data/aliases and
don't run Mailman's genaliases. Just rely on list creation/deletion to
add/remove the appropriate stanzas, and manually add the
owner-listname for new lists.

1c) create another set of postfix alias files with the same ownership
as the ones in Mailman's data/ directory and put the owner-listname
pipe aliases there.

But, 1) should not be necessary because the answer to 2) is No. Mailman
itself is not generating mail to owner-listname unless owner-listname
is a list member, owner or moderator. It should not be an owner or
moderator, at least not of the same list - i.e., the owners and
moderators of listx should not contain any listx-* addresses and
should not contain any owner-listx address unless that address is
deliverable outside of Mailman. If owner-listname is a list member,
that address should be changed to listname-owner.

You can use Mailman's

  bin/find_member owner-

to see if any owner- addresses are members of which lists.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Comcast, Yahoo, Hotmail blocking us

[Michael Anderson]

We changed our Sendmail configuration to send out one message at a time and
it seems to be working fine so far. Thanks for all the help.

MA


> From: Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Organization: Not Very Much
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:02:12 -0700
> To: Michael Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Mailman Users 
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Comcast, Yahoo, Hotmail blocking us
> 
> Michael Anderson wrote:
>> 
>> I can't imagine that sending one message at a time to 1500 users on a real
>> busy listserv would be a good idea.. Could it not really be slow?
> 
> 
> Well, you asked how to slow it down ...
> 
> OTOH, it won't be that slow. If your MTA as as blinding fast as you
> say, I imagine that for moderate sized messages, say 10 KB, it would
> take well under a minute to deliver to the MTA.
> 
> I don't know how many members are on the many lists at python.org, but
> many of these lists have personalized and/or VERPed delivery and thus
> send an individual message to each subscriber, and it doesn't seem to
> be an issue there.
>


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Comcast, Yahoo, Hotmail blocking us

[Mark Sapiro]

Michael Anderson wrote:
>
>I can't imagine that sending one message at a time to 1500 users on a real
>busy listserv would be a good idea.. Could it not really be slow?


Well, you asked how to slow it down ...

OTOH, it won't be that slow. If your MTA as as blinding fast as you
say, I imagine that for moderate sized messages, say 10 KB, it would
take well under a minute to deliver to the MTA.

I don't know how many members are on the many lists at python.org, but
many of these lists have personalized and/or VERPed delivery and thus
send an individual message to each subscriber, and it doesn't seem to
be an issue there.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Aliases file and upgrading

[runner]

> 1) Is there any problem with manually adding the extra alias 
> owner-listname for each migrated list and
> 2) Is is possible that mailman 2.1.9 is generating references to 
> owner-listname and if so, is that a problem?


I just found the answer to question 1.  If you add the alias manually it will 
be removed when you run mailman's genaliases command.  I'm going to look at 
postfix's virtual aliasing capabilities to see if I can solve this.


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[Mailman-Users] Aliases file and upgrading

[runner]

Just tried to upgrade by migrating our lists from mailman 1.0 to mailman 2.1.9 
on new hardware.  Pre-upgrade testing worked fine but after the real migration 
I saw a lot of "user unknown" errors in postfix's maillog.After 
investigating I found a lot of rejected mail destined for owner-listname.  I 
compared the list aliases from the old and new mailman installs and discovered 
the old  version generated an alias in the format owner-listname and 
listname-owner but the new mailman only generates listname-owner.  My first 
thought was to add the additional alias to each migrated list to catch these 
emails.  However, I also decided I might need to determine where these emails 
are coming from; maybe not.  They either came from the old mailman system and 
for whatever reason, were delayed and subsequently delivered to the new server. 
 Or, the new mailman server generated them because of some setting that was 
migrated from the old server. 

I'm not concerned about the first scenario but I'd like to know if the second 
scenario is possible.  I'd like to find the answer to these two questions:

1) Is there any problem with manually adding the extra alias owner-listname for 
each migrated list and
2) Is is possible that mailman 2.1.9 is generating references to owner-listname 
and if so, is that a problem?  



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Comcast, Yahoo, Hotmail blocking us

[Mark Sapiro]

Michael Anderson wrote:

>Suddenly, these major ISP's were refusing our connections. We are not on
>their blacklists. This all started on one day.
>
>After a great deal of investigation by my sysadmin and my University IT guys
>we have come to the conclusion that it might have been caused by updating
>our mail gateway machine. We upgraded from an antiquated PIX to one that is
>lightening fast. Plus we upgraded our bandwidth at the same time.
>
>So, what is happening is we are delivering the mail so fast that these ISP's
>are rejecting mail because they have thresholds in place that block large
>quantities of mail coming in from the same server in a short time.


I suppose that's possible, but before going down that road, I would
make sure that the domain that the server identifies itself as in SMTP
HELO or EHLO is the same domain returned by an rDNS lookup of its IP
address.

I.e. if I connect from IP 10.0.0.1 and identify myself in HELO as
example.com, an rDNS lookup of 10.0.0.1 should return example.com. If
this is not the case, or if the rDNS returns a 'generic' name such as
DSL-10-0-0-1.example.com, this is sufficient reason for some ISPs to
block you.


>So, the question I have is - is there any way to set mailman so that it
>doesn't send all its copies of a message to yahoo.com for instance all at
>once? Can you break it up? We have 200 yahoo users which is over their
>threshold.


There is no throttling per se in Mailman. You can probably slow things
down a bit by setting

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

in mm_cfg.py which will cause Mailman to deliver each recipient to the
outgoing MTA in a separate SMTP transaction instead of sending in one
transaction with up to 500 recipients. You can accomplish the same
thing by setting

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1

but if you're sending to 1 recipient per transaction, you might as well
get the advantage of VERP like delivery for better bounce detection.

If you have default Mailman settings, it is possible that Mailman is
delivering all 200 Yahoo recipients to the MTA in a single
transaction. Then, the MTA may or may not attempt to deliver all 200
to Yahoo in a single transaction which Yahoo may not like. If so, the
above settings may help.

If you want to slow things more than that, you need to investigate how
to do it in the MTA.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hyphenated Lists Stopped Working

[Mark Sapiro]

Alan Sill wrote:
>
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>> The bottom line is there is a bug in MaildirRunner.py. It doesn't  
>>> work
>>> with hyphenated list names as it conflates the last part of the name
>>> with the -bounces, -request, etc. suffixes.
>>
>>
>> The attached MaildirRunner.patch.txt file contains a patch which I
>> think will fix this bug. I've tested the revised regexp somewhat and
>> it seems to work, but I would appreciate your trying the patch and
>> reporting the results.
>>
>> Make a backup copy of Mailman/Queue/MaildirRunner.py, apply the patch
>> and restart Mailman.
>
>Is this bug only present in certain version of Mailman?  I have lists  
>with hyphenated list names that do not exhibit this problem.


The bug is in all Mailman 2.1.x versions but it only appears if you use
maildir delivery to Mailman which is not the default and which very
few sites use.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Comcast, Yahoo, Hotmail blocking us

[Bob Brown]

> Also, is there a way to find out which major blacklists your server is 
on
Try one of these:
http://www.mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx
http://www.dnsbl.info/advanced.asp

You should probably check spamhaus.org directly here: 
http://www.spamhaus.org/zen/

If you find yourself on one or more blacklists, visit the blacklist's Web 
page for information on removal or whitelisting.

 -- Bob

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/01/2007 
12:48:06 PM:

> Suddenly, these major ISP's were refusing our connections. We are not on
> their blacklists. This all started on one day.
> 
> After a great deal of investigation by my sysadmin and my University IT 
guys
> we have come to the conclusion that it might have been caused by 
updating
> our mail gateway machine. We upgraded from an antiquated PIX to one that 
is
> lightening fast. Plus we upgraded our bandwidth at the same time.
> 
> So, what is happening is we are delivering the mail so fast that these 
ISP's
> are rejecting mail because they have thresholds in place that block 
large
> quantities of mail coming in from the same server in a short time.
> 
> So, the question I have is - is there any way to set mailman so that it
> doesn't send all its copies of a message to yahoo.com for instance all 
at
> once? Can you break it up? We have 200 yahoo users which is over their
> threshold.
> 
> We are grasping at straws on this one.
> 
> Also, is there a way to find out which major blacklists your server is 
on
> and also a way to find the addresses you need to request whitelisting? I
> have a feeling there is a repository for this that you can search, but I
> don't know where to find it.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> Michael
> 
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hyphenated Lists Stopped Working

[Alan Sill]

On Sep 1, 2007, at 5:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> The bottom line is there is a bug in MaildirRunner.py. It doesn't  
>> work
>> with hyphenated list names as it conflates the last part of the name
>> with the -bounces, -request, etc. suffixes.
>
>
> The attached MaildirRunner.patch.txt file contains a patch which I
> think will fix this bug. I've tested the revised regexp somewhat and
> it seems to work, but I would appreciate your trying the patch and
> reporting the results.
>
> Make a backup copy of Mailman/Queue/MaildirRunner.py, apply the patch
> and restart Mailman.

Is this bug only present in certain version of Mailman?  I have lists  
with hyphenated list names that do not exhibit this problem.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives, but won't deliver

[Kyle Banerjee]

Just in case someone else experiences insanely slow delivery, DNS
verifies on mail from mailman turned out to be the problem in my case.
I turned that off and made sure I could relay from localhost, and
everything works great.

kyle

On 8/30/07, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kyle Banerjee wrote:
> >
> >I've sent a few messages to the lists over the past couple hours. Here
> >is what I'm seeing:
> >
> >1) The files are appearing almost immediately in qfiles/out/ where
> >they seem to stay. Nothing is in retry or the other qfiles
> >directories.
> >
> >2) Even a couple hours later, nothing shows up in post, smtp, or
> >smtp-failure. However, someone who belonged to one of the lists sent
> >one through. I found the entry
> >
> >Aug 31 02:18:53 2007 (40546)
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> smtp to innopac for
> >2014 recips, completed in 11231.212 seconds
> >
> >The amount of time for the transaction seems insane. Load is
> >practically nonexistent.
>
>
> Your SMTP delivery to sendmail is incredibly slow. This is your entire
> problem. Your out queue is hoplessly backlogged due to the time it is
> taking to process SMTP. You will never catch up.
>
> You need to make changes in sendmail. See
> ,
> particularly 4.11 and 6.3, and make sure you are not doing DNS
> verifies on mail from Mailman.
>
>
> >3) When I send a message to the list, maillog makes it look like
> >everything happened. For example, if I send it to the list with 4
> >people in it
> >
> >Aug 31 02:47:54 innopacusers sm-mta[52010]: l7V2lmww052010:
> >from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=5888, class=0, nrcpts=1,
> >msgid=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >proto=ESMTP, daemon
> >=MTA-v4, relay=wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]
>
>
> This doesn't look like a message from Mailman. A message from a mailman
> list will normally be from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] in this case). And, if this came
> from Mailman, there would be entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs.
>
>
> >Aug 31 02:48:01 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED], delay=00:00:07, xdelay=00:00:02,
> >mailer=esmtp, pri=156118, relay=bus-ex02.bus.umich.edu.
> >[141.211.239.195], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Queued
> >mail for delivery)
> >Aug 31 02:48:02 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] , delay=00:00:08
> >, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118, relay=mx10.colorado.edu.
> >[128.138.128.110], dsn=2.0.0, stat=
> >Sent (Ok: queued as 31AB7C4A4B0)
> >Aug 31 02:48:03 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED], delay=00:00:09, x
> >delay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
> >relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [64.233.167.27], dsn=2.0.0,
> >stat=Sent (OK 1188528483 a70si1963649pye)
> >Aug 31 02:48:04 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED], delay=00:00:10, x
> >delay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
> >relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Queued
> >mail for delivery)
> >Aug 31 02:48:22 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]:
> >l7V2lmww052010:[EMAIL PROTECTED], delay=00:00:28,
> >xdelay=00:00:18, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
> >relay=relay.oregonstate.edu. [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> >(Ok: queued as 5D01C410AE6)
> >
> >The handoff to mailman shows up and it appears in /qfiles/out
> >Aug 31 02:40:58 innopacusers sm-mta[51781]: l7V2ep7j051777:
> >to="|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
> >webguru" , ctladdr=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (26/0), delay=00:00:01,
> >xdelay=00:
> >00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31857, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
>
> Mailman can do content filtering with I think more control than
> stripmime.pl
>
>
> >> In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
> >> empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
> >> it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
> >> *.bak file while it is being processed by
> >> OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)
> >>
> >> If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
> >> backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
> >> there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.
> >
> >This sounds like my problem. OutgoingRunner is running
> >
> >mailman 40546  0.0  1.7 19204 17236  ??  S11:11PM   0:01.49
> >/usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
> >--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> >
> >I can easily buy that there's a config issue, but the strange thing is
> >that we were functional for years and all of a sudden quit working
>
>
> What Mailman version is this?
>
>
> >(having said that, we have a hosted server, so it's conceivable
> >something was done to our machine -- it's happened before).
> >
> >I don't understand how OutgoingRunner works -- any suggestions for
> >directions for me to explore in seeing if my sendmail or mailman
> >config is screwi

[Mailman-Users] Comcast, Yahoo, Hotmail blocking us

[Michael Anderson]

Suddenly, these major ISP's were refusing our connections. We are not on
their blacklists. This all started on one day.

After a great deal of investigation by my sysadmin and my University IT guys
we have come to the conclusion that it might have been caused by updating
our mail gateway machine. We upgraded from an antiquated PIX to one that is
lightening fast. Plus we upgraded our bandwidth at the same time.

So, what is happening is we are delivering the mail so fast that these ISP's
are rejecting mail because they have thresholds in place that block large
quantities of mail coming in from the same server in a short time.

So, the question I have is - is there any way to set mailman so that it
doesn't send all its copies of a message to yahoo.com for instance all at
once? Can you break it up? We have 200 yahoo users which is over their
threshold.

We are grasping at straws on this one.

Also, is there a way to find out which major blacklists your server is on
and also a way to find the addresses you need to request whitelisting? I
have a feeling there is a repository for this that you can search, but I
don't know where to find it.

Thanks for your help.
Michael


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hyphenated Lists Stopped Working

[Karl Zander]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:10:38 -0700
  Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The bottom line is there is a bug in MaildirRunner.py. 
>It doesn't work
> with hyphenated list names as it conflates the last part 
>of the name
> with the -bounces, -request, etc. suffixes.

hummm...We have not had problems with hyphenated list 
names.  Just about all of our lists have hyphenated names. 
 Currently running 2.1.9, but we did not have problems 
with 2.1.8 or 2.1.7 either.

--Karl
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hyphenated Lists Stopped Working

[Mark Sapiro]

Karl Zander wrote:
>
>hummm...We have not had problems with hyphenated list 
>names.  Just about all of our lists have hyphenated names. 
> Currently running 2.1.9, but we did not have problems 
>with 2.1.8 or 2.1.7 either.


Neither did the OP have problems until he moved lists with hyphenated
names to a Mailman installation using maildir delivery to Mailman as
opposed to the normal piped delivery direct from the MTA.

The problem is in MaildirRunner.py which is "experimental for Mailman
2.1" and not used at most sites.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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