Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses for spamfromarchives

[David Beaumont]

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> The META tags say don't 'index' the index pages themselves, but follow
> the links to the messages, and on the message pages 'index' the
> contents, but don't follow links.
> 
> This is appropriate for a public archive. Presumably you want 
> people to
> be able to search for and find stuff in a public archive.
> 
Yes I understand the metatag.  What we want is no emails available to the
public where our members email address can easily be worked out.  We achieve
this very well through Nabble and their archive of our mail -
www.bargeforum.org.  We have never found the mailman archives very user
friendly, quite basic in fact.  So in this case we want nofollow and
noindex.  The public can search our public Nabble archives as much as they
want.

> If the archive is private, it can only be accessed by logging in. The
> 'pipermail' URL doesn't work and access is via the 'private' CGI which
> requires login with list member email address and password.
> 
> It won't change the META tags, but they will be irrelevant 
> since robots
> can't log in and access the pages.
> 
> Email obfuscation has nothing to do with public/private. 

Thanks for explaining that, it was my only concern about going private.  The
mailman help is not clear on this and I had not noticed the move to a
passworded directory because every time I changed to private I had to be
already logged in to make the change.  Now logging in, making the change,
logging out and testing has made it clear how it works.  The great thing
about mailman is support like this. But as our archive gets bigger and more
useful, mailman's basic interface does fall shorter and shorter. 

Thanks

David  


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses for spam fromarchives

[David Beaumont]

I've just checked myself and the HTML source still seems to allow robots:
 on each message and  on the index page.  I would want
noindex and nofollow on both pages.  

Changing to private archives doesn't seem to make any difference to that,
does it only apply to new archiving?  The help is a bit vague here, does
public mean the data is prepared for public posting  (emails obscufacted)
and private mean they are not, or does private mean they are not put on the
web? i.e. which of private and public is actually the most secure?

Also search engines still seem to be able to see the data e.g. type 
"neoprene site:lists.shire.net/pipermail/dbamain/ " into Google, maybe this
will go in a few days?

David

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of David Beaumont
> Sent: 08 September 2008 20:19
> To: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses 
> for spam fromarchives
> 
> Thanks is this still the case at  
> http://lists.shire.net/pipermail/dbamain/
> ?  We have just put a password on so I am hoping that will 
> stop robots too.
> 
> David 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: 08 September 2008 20:00
> > To: David Beaumont
> > Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses 
> > for spam from archives
> > 
> > It helps to disallow but the site is allowing.  So possible 
> > some engines
> > will bot the whole site:
> > 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/robots.txt
> > 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses for spam from archives

[David Beaumont]

Thanks is this still the case at  http://lists.shire.net/pipermail/dbamain/
?  We have just put a password on so I am hoping that will stop robots too.

David 

> -Original Message-
> From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 08 September 2008 20:00
> To: David Beaumont
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses 
> for spam from archives
> 
> It helps to disallow but the site is allowing.  So possible 
> some engines
> will bot the whole site:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/robots.txt
> 
> 
> On Mon, September 8, 2008 8:25 am, David Beaumont wrote:
> > We have had a lot of spams sent directly to our list 
> members (i.e. not
> > sent
> > via mailman).  All of them have subject headings taken from 
> list emails
> > already sent out genuinely via mailman.  Almost all have 
> our specific list
> > prefix (but interesting not every one).
> >
> > Has anyone else had this recently (started 3rd Sept approx and the
> > spammers
> > listed from address has 'kiev' in it)?
> >
> > I can only think of 2 ways this has happened
> >
> > 1) Our public archives have been harvested by a spammer.  This would
> > account
> > for the subject headings being used.  Email addresses are 
> displayed in the
> > archives as, literally, 'name at domain.com' which is not 
> immediately
> > harvestable but wouldn't take much code to convert ' at ' 
> to '@'. How do
> > we
> > make this more secure? I notice this list's archives are 
> not standard
> > mailman format!
> >
> > 2) One of our members PCs has been attacked and the 
> subjects and email
> > addresses taken from there.  All our emails are delivered 
> with the reply
> > to
> > address being the list but the originators email showing.  
> This would
> > account for a small number of the spams not having our list 
> prefix in the
> > subject heading (they would not have the prefix if stored 
> in the sent box
> > of
> > the person that created the genuine message).  However I 
> would expect at
> > least some members to report spam with entirely non list 
> subjects from the
> > same spammer.
> >
> > --
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> >
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> >
> 
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses for spam from archives

[David Beaumont]

> >I notice this list's archives are not standard
> >mailman format!
> 
> 
> I assume by 'this list' you mean [EMAIL PROTECTED] In what way
> are the archives "not standard"?

Thanks I mean the archives at
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Ours are at http://lists.shire.net/pipermail/dbamain/

On ours you will see the emails have the ' at ' obscuration.   Yours don't
seem to show the email in any form.  How do we change to your format?

David

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[Mailman-Users] Harvesting of email addresses for spam from archives

[David Beaumont]

We have had a lot of spams sent directly to our list members (i.e. not sent
via mailman).  All of them have subject headings taken from list emails
already sent out genuinely via mailman.  Almost all have our specific list
prefix (but interesting not every one).

Has anyone else had this recently (started 3rd Sept approx and the spammers
listed from address has 'kiev' in it)?

I can only think of 2 ways this has happened

1) Our public archives have been harvested by a spammer.  This would account
for the subject headings being used.  Email addresses are displayed in the
archives as, literally, 'name at domain.com' which is not immediately
harvestable but wouldn't take much code to convert ' at ' to '@'. How do we
make this more secure? I notice this list's archives are not standard
mailman format!

2) One of our members PCs has been attacked and the subjects and email
addresses taken from there.  All our emails are delivered with the reply to
address being the list but the originators email showing.  This would
account for a small number of the spams not having our list prefix in the
subject heading (they would not have the prefix if stored in the sent box of
the person that created the genuine message).  However I would expect at
least some members to report spam with entirely non list subjects from the
same spammer.   

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Control of newsgroup posters

[David Beaumont]

Thanks but we have the newsgroup because some members, albeit a few, prefer
a newsgroup interface.  They would definitely not want to use the newsgroup
to read and then have to use email to post.   

I am experimenting with the mailman option 'List of non-member addresses
whose postings will be immediately held for moderation' and adding
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  which is what shows in the headers of the gated
newsgroup posts (with * being a random number).  Am I wasting my time
looking into that?  If not do I have the * right - I don't understand the
mailman help line  "start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular
expression match", can someone give examples of that usage to obtain the
wildcard function?

Thanks

David



> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Sapiro  
> 
> >Is there a simple way to control newsgroup posters?  We 
> interface our 
> >mailman list to a newsgroup.  We find that not only do 
> people who post 
> >via the newsgroup NOT have to subscribe to our email list, we also 
> >cannot hold their posts for moderation.  We would like the 
> opposite of both of these.
> 
> 
> That's not the way it works. The assumption is if you are 
> gating from news that you want all the posts from the news group.
> 
> It you only want posts on the list from list members and want 
> them moderated by the list, don't gate to the list from the 
> news group, just gate from the list to the news group and 
> have list members post to the list and not the news group.

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[Mailman-Users] Control of newsgroup posters

[David Beaumont]

Is there a simple way to control newsgroup posters?  We interface our
mailman list to a newsgroup.  We find that not only do people who post via
the newsgroup NOT have to subscribe to our email list, we also cannot hold
their posts for moderation.  We would like the opposite of both of these.

Thanks, apologies if it is in the FAQ (which it usually is), I have searched
in vain for the answer using 'newsgroup' and 'moderation'.  

David

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Re: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another not asattachments

[David Beaumont]

I'm getting confused.  To clarify, in Mailman 2.1.8 content filtering terms:
we are 'filtering the content' , 
we are not 'removing message attachments that have a matching content type' 
we are 'removing message attachments that don't match multipart/mixed,
multipart/alternative or text/plain', 
we are removing message attachments that match exe, bat, cmd,
com,pif,scr,vbs,cpl ', 
we are 'collapsing multipart/alternative to its first part content', 
we are converting text/html parts to plain text.  

is that solution 2?  By the way I still don't know how to configure solution
1.  

thanks for your time

David

> -Original Message-
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 11 December 2007 14:29
> To: David Beaumont; 'Brad Knowles'; 'Mark Sapiro'; 
> mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one 
> list to another not asattachments
> 
> On 12/11/07, David Beaumont wrote:
> 
> >  I should have added that not only are the original messages plain 
> > text but  the list is configured to convert text/html parts 
> to plain text.
> 
> Plain text or not for the main message body, you may still 
> have other bodyparts that are in other MIME formats, and you 
> could potentially be stripping them, or you could allow them 
> through.  If you do allow them through, then adding footers 
> to your outgoing messages may cause your "plain text" format 
> message to get encapsulated into a MIME multi-part/related 
> type, which may be displayed in your MUA in a manner that is 
> not palatable.
> 
> >
> > Isn't this  proposed solution number 2 in the FAQ  
> > 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.0
> 39.htp ? 
> > It  doesn't work for us.
> 
> Are you sure you're stripping all possible MIME bodypart 
> types that might be interfering with the mail, and not just 
> converting only the text/html parts into plain text and 
> leaving the rest alone?
> 
> >  Where do I configure proposed solution no. 1 and what is a 'MUA' 
> > referred to  in solution 3?  Maybe I could try those as 
> well.  We are 
> > already trying  solution 4 which I have to say works perfectly.
> 
> An MUA is a Mail User Agent.  In your case, the X-Mailer: 
> header in your message says that you're using "Microsoft 
> Office Outlook 11" as your MUA.  In my case, my MUA is 
> Eudora.  There are plenty of other options available.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

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Re: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another not asattachments

[David Beaumont]

I should have added that not only are the original messages plain text but
the list is configured to convert text/html parts to plain text. Isn't this
proposed solution number 2 in the FAQ
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp ? It
doesn't work for us. 

Where do I configure proposed solution no. 1 and what is a 'MUA' referred to
in solution 3?  Maybe I could try those as well.  We are already trying
solution 4 which I have to say works perfectly.

Thanks

David
> -Original Message-
> From: Brad Knowles 
...
> Your description of:
> 
>   We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another
>   more appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up,
>   losing the originators email address and with the text as an
>   attachment.  I.e. looking pretty crap.
> 
> Sounds exactly like the problem I was referring to.
> 
> And this doesn't have anything to do with text versus HTML 
> formatting, it has to do with MIME formatting and things like 
> what you perceive to be an "attachment".  This is explained 
> in some detail within the FAQ entry I referenced.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> LinkedIn Profile: 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another not asattachments

[David Beaumont]

Thanks but I don't think that is relevant as the original messages are in
plain text format, I have checked. 

David  

> -Original Message-
> From: Brad Knowles 
> Don't forget FAQ 4.39 at
>  039.htp>,
> which addresses the problems of HTML-formatted messages and 
> what happens to them when you start stripping or flattening 
> content, or adding footers, etc
> 
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another not asattachments

[David Beaumont]

yes thanks that is one FAQ I had read, with a slight amount of horror.  The
first suggestion is surely much too cumbersome for regular use, I take it
the 'Voila' is ironic. The second suggestion I could live with except that I
don't have server shell access and anyway it would not fix our particular
problem. 

thanks

David 

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 11 December 2007 01:50
> To: David Beaumont; mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one 
> list to another not asattachments
> 
> David Beaumont wrote:
> 
> >We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another more 
> >appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up, losing the 
> >originators email address and with the text as an attachment.  I.e. 
> >looking pretty crap.
> 
> 
> FAQ 3.9
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
> addresses a slightly different issue, but the techniques 
> described there will work just as well for bouncing a message 
> to another list.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

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[Mailman-Users] forwarding messages from one list to another not as attachments

[David Beaumont]

We need to forward moderated emails from one list to another more
appropriate list.  However they always arrive munged up, losing the
originators email address and with the text as an attachment.  I.e. looking
pretty crap.  This must be a common requirement however I can't find
anything in the FAQ and all I can find in the archives is this with no
answer:  

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg24118.html

I always get a quick reply to these queries often simply pointing to me to a
FAQ I have missed, I think it may be different this time! 

Thanks

David

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Re: [Mailman-Users] integrating mailman members list with another database

[David Beaumont]

Thnanks for very prompt response.  I can obtain the list of members although
I do not have server shell access, I can do it by email commands so that is
no problem.  I don't understand though how you use that.   

I should add our mailman list is on a suppliers server.  We have our own
website on a different suppliers server.  that website has a members only
section where members have to login.

Are you allowing only members of your list by making the only route to
subscribing your own web site after logging in to your own web site?  Thats
seems a great idea, we could do that and then we wouldn't need to run the
mailman subscribers list at all let alone once an hour.  We would need to
manuslly check all existing subscribers but only the once.  

I assume we would just edit the HTML of the standard mailman subscribe page
to tell them to login to our site instead.  One question though is there a
simple way to prevent non members subscribing by just guessing the subscribe
email address? Oh one more when our members leave they will still stay as
subscribers to the mailman list.  

thnaks

David



Steven Stern wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 11/04/2007 05:25 PM, David Beaumont wrote:
> 
> Here's the basic outline:
> 
> Extract a list of member email addresses.
> 
>  /usr/local/mailman/bin/sync_members -g=no -w=no -d=no -a=no -f
> file_of_email_addresses list_name_here
> 
> The list is set up so confirmation of subscription is required (and we
> never confirm when someone tries).
> 
> We run this process at the top of every hour.  Users
> subscribe/unsubscribe through our member services profiler, not through
> he list itself.
> 
> - --
> 
>   Steve
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFHLldpeERILVgMyvARAk1yAJ9zSkdAnh+5yHcO8C2KoEuCM/mtgQCeMq6M
> KewzwVXddD6LQh/NtvhXoG4=
> =nVUV
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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[Mailman-Users] integrating mailman members list with another database

[David Beaumont]

We run a mailman list.  Anyone can subscribe but we would prefer to restrict
subscription to members of our not-for-profit organisation.  We have those
members on an online database.  Has anyone ever linked the mailman list of
subscribers to another database of email addresses and is there any way
apart fom manually checking against our membership list and manually
deleting subscribers to our mailman list?

Apologies if it's in the FAQ I did look though.

thanks

David
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[Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface and registration

[David Beaumont]

Our usenet newsgroup 'annexcafe' have started requiring registration, to
prevent spamming of the newsgroup.  However since they did this the
interface with out mailman list has stopped working both ways.  Emails no
longer get posted to the newsgroup and newsgroup postings no longer get sent
out as emails.  

The newsgroup now requires users to log in with their username and password,
but there is no option to put login details into mailman that I can find.
We have mailman v 2.1.8

Has any had this problem and got round it?  Or anyone know of newsgroup
providers that don't require login?  Or of any software that does emails,
web based forums and newsgroups in one?

Thanks

David


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[Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe links in footers and passwords

[David Beaumont]

Firstly is there a way to globally remove passwords for all users on a list.
They are a pain, users forget them and I trust our users not to need one.

Secondly and alternatively I notice at the foot of each of the mailman
developers emails is an 'unsubscribe' link that takes you to your own
details page in mailman

Eg "Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/david%40johmar.com";

How do you get the individuals email address to be included at the end of
that link?

Thanks

David

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and forums

[David Beaumont]

Is there any software that provides or allows mailman to integrate with
forum software (by that I mean a web based method to view all posts by
thread etc..) And I don't mean the basic mailman archive which is pretty
basic.  Something more like 'Yahoo groups'.

Thanks

David

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[Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface - prevention of spam transfer from newsgroup to emails list

[David Beaumont]

Very occasionally spam has been sent to the newsgroup which our mailman list
interfaces with.  The spam has then been uploaded to the email list and sent
out.  This can only get worse. We never get spam on our mailing list
normally because you have to be a member to email to it. Of course there is
no such restriction on the newsgroup.   Is there a simple way to restrict
postings picked up from the newsgroup to be from members of the email list
only?

Thanks


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[Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface - upload to mailman not working

[David Beaumont]

We interface to a newsgroup, details:

"The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. 
news.annexcafe.com
 
The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. 
annexcafe.dba.bargemain"

Emails are transferred to the newsgroup OK.  Until September last year
newsgroup postings were picked up by mailman and distributed as emails.
However since then that bit has stopped working, any ideas why?  Our
supplier says the newsrunner process is running.  

Thanks

David

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[Mailman-Users] Newsgroup interface picking up spam

[David Beaumont]

On our members only list how can we prevent the newsgroup interface picking
up posts (spam) from non members?  We have mailman 2.1.8.  I see here 

http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html 

there is an option

"Should newsgroup posts not sent from the list be resent to the list?
Specifies whether or not messages posted by people out there in the world
who are not members of the list should be gated and distributed to list
members. " 

Which would seem to be the answer but we don't have that, is it new in
2.1.9?

Thanks

David


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