Re: [Mailman-Users] list of members question
Hi! You can send an e-mail to: listname-request@ With the word who and then your administrative password for the list in the subject line. The caveat there is if there are any hidden members, they will not return. AFAIK, you cannot change how many subscribers are shown in the administration interface as Mailman comes out of the package. --Krystal On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way for a list owner to see all subscribers of a list on one web page? One list has 140 members. Or can a list be requested via email? I know that I, as listserv admin, can get this list via the gui. Don Hone http://edirectory.ohio.edu/?$search?uid=hone Ohio University -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/zipfel%40greenacrestechnology.com Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman servers coordination: find spammers
The problem I see with this is much like the DNSBLs and Block lists (spamhaus?). As Jason put it, one person's spam could very much be another person's ham, so mail starts getting rejected by those who outright trust such a database and it is hell trying to get removed from those said lists. Not to mention, there is so much forgery and many changes to spam tricks that even SA has to keep up with it. :-( Personally, I think spam filtering/watching/fighting should be done per server, per user, etc. Would be real nice if the ISP's would start doing that... My opinion. :-) Jason Pruim wrote: First, I think it would have better luck on the developers mailing list :) But as for the idea, I think it could work, but someone would have to provide the hosting for the database that would hold all the info. And we would have to figure out who would be a trusted source to report the spam My spam might be your ham... I need lunch hehe In general though I like the idea and would love to hear from others on it as well :) On Jul 14, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Gadi Evron wrote: I often see addresses popping up and subscribing to all visible lists on my servers. Sometimes they're a curious individual, and most times they are spammers harversting addresses (as these are open only to admin). I wonder what the coding price would be, if it can even work with mailman, to create a central trusted DB which watched subscription trends? 1. It could be used for security. 2. It could fight spammers on the mailman front. 3. If we deal with the security and privacy implications of the first two, or want a constructive cause--collect cool trends and provide with a mailing lists index by tag words and activity. Think technorati.. This of course, is just a neat idea. Thoughts? Thanks, Gadi. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/japruim%40raoset.com Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 11287 James St Holland, MI 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/zipfel%40greenacrestechnology.com Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
(figures, apparently my mail program is one of those *broken* ones so apologies, this originally sent off list) Hello Cyndi, I do see where you are coming from, but abuse issues can go the opposite direction from your description, and usually does. The host I work for does NOT turn off mass subscription capability (but also only provides the web interface). With that said, our abuse policy states that all users must be double-opt in. Whether this is done via Mailman or they're own script and database is up to the user, but they had better be able to provide proof that the subscriber was double-opt in. The reason for this is simple. Most hosts providing Mailman (or similar package) do so on shared servers (our servers have up to 2000 lists per server). If *for any reason what-so-ever* a user's list causes an ISP to take notice, the ISP will most likely take notice by blocking that shared server affecting all 1999 other lists on that server. Most ISP's will then specifically request proof that the message was requested and not unsolicited, and the best (and yes, legal way) to prove that is if you have proof that the user was opted into the list TWICE. In our eyes, the problem has nothing to do with some spammer mass subscribing users (we have NEVER had this problem, actually... unless the admin gets they're password compromised). It has everything to do with covering our customers butts. :-) Just offering the other side of the issue. Krystal Cyndi Norwitz wrote: Please let me know if I should post this elsewhere too. The Mass Subscribe feature has two settings: on and off. Although Mailman was designed for users to self-install, and presumably they can trust themselves not to abuse it, the truth is that an awful lot of Mailman list owners do not have access to the full software, just the web interface. My use of Mailman is through my ISP, but there are other users who use software installed by a business group, university, or other entity. My ISP has chosen to turn off Mass Subscribe. Only the invite feature is left. I completely understand why they have done this and I have to concur. They have thousands of users and hundreds of mailing lists. The potential for abuse is great. They did a mass subscribe for me when I transfered my lists from another provider, but they're not going to do one or two subscribers here, three or four there, and so on. It's a huge pain in the neck for users not to be able to add subscribers directly. For my larger lists, I prefer subscribers to do it themselves, but I have the occasional person who just can't manage it. But I also run smaller lists, including several for a nonprofit, and it's just embararssing that I can't add the board members and others who ask me to. My request is for an intermediate step that the provider can set. Something like subscribing one name at a time (so it's too much of a pain for a spammer to put in a thousand names) or up to 10 a day, or something that will make a large provider feel more comfortable but not completely remove the feature from the users. Thanks, Cyndi @ sonic.net -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/zipfel%40greenacrestechnology.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
Hello, Let me first say I was in no way competing with Cyndi's suggestion, I should probably have prefaced by saying I think the option provided is a good one. And again, we have no modifications to Mailman that is not built in to modify (we have turned off personalization for example, but no code modifications). Double Opt-In is simply that the user stated twice that they want to subscribe to the list. In Mailman's option, Double Opt-In would be 'Confirm'. Basically, it forces the subscriber to say yes I want on this list, and then say yes, I really really really do want to be on this list. This way, if someone like say, Spam Arrest contacts us and says we have X spam complaint, we can contact the user and say what's up, and they say here's when the user subscribed, here's when they said yea I really want that, and now Spam Arrest leaves us alone and the list is not blacklisted. It's one of those double edged swords. In our case, it's not that we don't trust our users (but have a TOS in place of course just in case), it's that we don't trust other ISP's and Spam blackholes. For this reason, the burden of proof is placed on the account holder. If a user mass-subscribes say, 10,000 members from a list of addresses they bought somewhere else, that user has absolutely no way to provide proof that the subscriber ever opted in to that list SPECIFICALLY. However, on the flip side, if a user is moving from another host, or has multiple lists, or they're own signup pages/database, etc... they still have they're own proof but are using the mass subscription option to use. Hence why I personally do not think removing it entirely is a grand idea, and why offering a way for hosts to control the subscription process to a point could be very helpful. Krystal Fil wrote: Hi Krystal, I'd be interested to know what you call double opt-in. Is it a web subscription + email reply with the cookie, or double-that (and in that case, what is the scenario). FWIW I don't think the option Cindy proposes passes Occam's razor. For the moment it looks like lots of complexity for a need that is not well defined and certainly not generic. If the ISP has deliberately crippled Mailman's interface up to the point it's not usable any more, they should probably try and come up with a solution; or at least try to explain (to the devs or the users) why and how. -- Fil -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
That is EXACTLY right. Mark Sapiro wrote: My understanding of this is that double opt-in and what I call confirmed opt-in are the same thing and that they mean 1. User requests to be on the list via a web form, email, etc. This is the first opt-in. Note that strictly speaking, this probably precludes unsolicited invitations, although an invitation in response to any show of interest such as even checking a box on a paper form would be OK. 2. An email with confirmation instructions is sent to the users address to be subscribed to verify that the person who receives mail at that address really wants to be on the list. 3. Only after the user follows the confirmation process of step 2 does the user get added to the list. That's the second opt-in. The key idea in this process is that the user's email address is only added to the list after an affirmative response to an email sent to that address. I expect Krystal will correct me if I'm mistaken. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL's Client TOS Notification
Remember, AOL is not the only retarded ISP out there. Working for a web hosting company, I see this happen all the time. AOL is notorious, but so is Comcast, Bellsouth, and Verizon (to name a few). but hey, if it wasn't for Spam and horrible ISP's that block everyone except themselves... think of how many jobs would be lost? :-) - Original Message From: Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mailman mailman-users@python.org Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 5:51:18 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL's Client TOS Notification On 7/14/07 3:53 PM, Dave Dewey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Ralf Hildebrandt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): * Rick Pasotto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have recently been getting some of these from one of my mailing lists. Welcome to the wonderful world of AOL retards. There is nothing in it (that I've been able to see) that would tell me who the user is that is rejecting the email. There are several AOL addresses subscribed but only one rejection each time a mailing goes out. Do you use VERP to send out the mails? If you do that you can see who the culprit is. VERP doesn't work any longer for these, as of a couple months ago. They now redact ALL information that can be used to identify the user, including verp'd addresses. That's unfortunate. At this point, what's the point of getting them if they won't give you any useful information as to who doesn't want the list mail they requested. But it's always been clear that AOL assumes everyone outside is a spammer. They probably can't get their minds around the idea that some of their own customers subscribe to lists and then mark them as spam when they no longer want them rather than properly unsubscribing. And that we, as responsible list owners, want to get them off our lists. I know some will disagree but if it comes to it, then I just make it clear that I don't accept AOL users as subscribers. If they want to subscribe, they will have to do so from a real ISP. Messageid still works, for whatever reason it's the one piece of header info that isn't redacted at this point. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/zipfel%40greenacrestechnology.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
