Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
b...@liddicott.com wrote: ^^^ what a surprise... > > > > Either way, top-posting is now the de-facto standard in the world, and > if you go on about it you will just look like a curmudgeon. Wikipedia > says: > > > > > This widespread policy in business communication made bottom and > inline posting so unknown among most users that some of the most > popular email programs no longer support the traditional posting style > > > You mean LookOut clients and users don't know how to do the right thing... Even my iPad does the right thing! (well mostly - it quotes in a way that allows both top posted and inline replies) Michelle PS: I love LookOut on my Mac, users still send in a way that it can't even quote properly, so I make a point of inlining the replies with all text in a different colour... and then replies to replies get another color... I'm looking forward to an epic thread when I get to over 256 colours (not because I can't but because most people can't tell) -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 06:47 PM, b...@liddicott.com wrote: > Either way, top-posting is now the de-facto standard in the world, and if > you go on about it you will just look like a curmudgeon. Wikipedia says: I considered top posting to this thread, but in HTML. () ascii ribbon campaign - against HTML e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments Alfie -- Alfie John al...@fastmail.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
> On Sep 8, 2015, at 9:36 AM, mikea wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 08:18:18AM -0700, Hugo Slabbert wrote: >> On Tue 2015-Sep-08 06:45:55 +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: >>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 04:39, Gary Baribault wrote: On 07/09/15 02:31 PM, mikea wrote: > On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 02:10:48PM -0400, Gary Baribault wrote: >> Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? > First, it was a standard. > > Second, it got too much traffic. I get the too much traffic part, what's wrong with it being a standard? >>> How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the world if >>> you follow a standard? >>> >> >> As a numbered list of gripes/issues/concerns it doesn't make too much sense. >> As a chronology, though? >> >> "First, this happened (which was fine). >> Then, this happened (which sucked)." >> >> Perhaps mikea meant the latter. > > > It's a standard, so they elect to not follow it. More the rule than the > exception nowadays w.r.t. standards, I fear. > > Second, it's a standard, so it gets too much mail, and they'd prefer not to > have to deal with even valid complaints, much less invalid complaints and > spam. > Postmaster isn’t really the place for deliverability issues, in my experience. The postmasters seem to be more about keeping the system up and running. Most bigger networks have dedicated filter staff that are separate from the postmaster team. It’s been years since I’ve had any response from postmaster@ other than “you need to go *here* for deliverability support. laura -- Having an Email Crisis? 800 823-9674 Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com (650) 437-0741 Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 08:18:18AM -0700, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > On Tue 2015-Sep-08 06:45:55 +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: > >On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 04:39, Gary Baribault wrote: > >>On 07/09/15 02:31 PM, mikea wrote: > >>>On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 02:10:48PM -0400, Gary Baribault wrote: > Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? > >>>First, it was a standard. > >>> > >>>Second, it got too much traffic. > >> > >>I get the too much traffic part, what's wrong with it being a standard? > >> > >How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the world if > >you follow a standard? > > > > As a numbered list of gripes/issues/concerns it doesn't make too much sense. > As a chronology, though? > > "First, this happened (which was fine). > Then, this happened (which sucked)." > > Perhaps mikea meant the latter. It's a standard, so they elect to not follow it. More the rule than the exception nowadays w.r.t. standards, I fear. Second, it's a standard, so it gets too much mail, and they'd prefer not to have to deal with even valid complaints, much less invalid complaints and spam. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
On Tue 2015-Sep-08 06:45:55 +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 04:39, Gary Baribault wrote: On 07/09/15 02:31 PM, mikea wrote: On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 02:10:48PM -0400, Gary Baribault wrote: Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? First, it was a standard. Second, it got too much traffic. I get the too much traffic part, what's wrong with it being a standard? How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the world if you follow a standard? As a numbered list of gripes/issues/concerns it doesn't make too much sense. As a chronology, though? "First, this happened (which was fine). Then, this happened (which sucked)." Perhaps mikea meant the latter. Bron ( responding to a top post with a standard form of quoting... ) -- Hugo ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 18:47, b...@liddicott.com wrote: > There's RFC 1855 of course: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 , a memo > which "does not specify an Internet standard of any kind". > The one mention of bottom-posting is that you should include > "summarize the original at the top of the message" or "include > justenough text of the original to give a context" "at the top of your > message". > > This pretty much summarizes my view: > * http://web.archive.org/web/20070607221125/ > http://alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm[1] > > > Either way, top-posting is now the de-facto standard in the world, > and if you go on about it you will just look like a curmudgeon. > Wikipedia says: Woah, I should have put more smileys on that ;) ;) :) !111!!111:p > > This widespread policy in business communication made bottom > > and inline posting so unknown among most users that some of the > > most popular email programs no longer support the traditional > > posting style > > See also: http://emailclientmarketshare.com/ > > Cheers, Ben > > > *From: *Suresh Ramasubramanian *Sent: *08 September 2015 01:53 > > > > On 08-Sep-2015, at 2:15 am, Bron Gondwana wrote: > > > > How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the > > world if > > you follow a standard? > > > > Bron ( responding to a top post with a standard form of quoting... ) > > The top posting, bottom posting and interleaved quoting camps > need conversion between each other much like 8 bit to quoted > printable, say. > > Some kind soul might want to come up with an RFC on this. > -- Bron Gondwana br...@fastmail.fm Links: 1. http://web.archive.org/web/20070607221125/http:/alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
There's RFC 1855 of course: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 , a memo which "does not specify an Internet standard of any kind". The one mention of bottom-posting is that you should include "summarize the original at the top of the message" or "include just enough text of the original to give a context" "at the top of your message". This pretty much summarizes my view: * http://web.archive.org/web/20070607221125/http://alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm Either way, top-posting is now the de-facto standard in the world, and if you go on about it you will just look like a curmudgeon. Wikipedia says: > This widespread policy in business communication made bottom and inline > posting so unknown among most users that some of the most popular email > programs no longer support the traditional posting style See also: http://emailclientmarketshare.com/ Cheers, Ben From: Suresh Ramasubramanian Sent: 08 September 2015 01:53 > On 08-Sep-2015, at 2:15 am, Bron Gondwana wrote: > > How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the world if > you follow a standard? > > Bron ( responding to a top post with a standard form of quoting... ) The top posting, bottom posting and interleaved quoting camps need conversion between each other much like 8 bit to quoted printable, say. Some kind soul might want to come up with an RFC on this. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
> On 08-Sep-2015, at 2:15 am, Bron Gondwana wrote: > > How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the world if > you follow a standard? > > Bron ( responding to a top post with a standard form of quoting... ) The top posting, bottom posting and interleaved quoting camps need conversion between each other much like 8 bit to quoted printable, say. Some kind soul might want to come up with an RFC on this. --srs ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
Gary Baribault wrote: > Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? > > Hate to say it but Frank did say 'NOC email' ... rather than postmaster... well actaully didn't hate to say it, thought it might bring a smile ;-) Michelle > Gary B > > > On 07/09/15 01:53 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > >> You could try the generic NOC email address, ipmc24hrsurveillanced...@bt.com >> >> Frank >> >> -Original Message- >> From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Bron Gondwana >> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 7:22 AM >> To: mailop@mailop.org >> Subject: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems >> >> We're getting connection dropped after RCPT TO for customers trying to email >> to BTInternet. >> >> (delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with >> mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO) >> >> Does anybody have any contacts at btinternet to figure out if it's a more >> general problem or if they've just decided to blackhole FastMail silently. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bron. >> >> > > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop > -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 04:39, Gary Baribault wrote: > I get the too much traffic part, what's wrong with it being a standard? How can you be a special snowflake and make your own stamp on the world if you follow a standard? Bron ( responding to a top post with a standard form of quoting... ) -- Bron Gondwana br...@fastmail.fm ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
Thanks Frank, I'll forward the email that I sent to postmaster@[example.com] to there. (obviously, I sent it from another mail provider. It is somewhat hard to email about SMTP deliverability problems without one of those) Bron. On Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 03:53, Frank Bulk wrote: > You could try the generic NOC email address, ipmc24hrsurveillanced...@bt.com > > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Bron Gondwana > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 7:22 AM > To: mailop@mailop.org > Subject: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems > > We're getting connection dropped after RCPT TO for customers trying to email > to BTInternet. > > (delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with > mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO) > > Does anybody have any contacts at btinternet to figure out if it's a more > general problem or if they've just decided to blackhole FastMail silently. > > Thanks, > > Bron. > > -- > Bron Gondwana > br...@fastmail.fm > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop > > > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop -- Bron Gondwana br...@fastmail.fm ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
I get the too much traffic part, what's wrong with it being a standard? Gary B On 07/09/15 02:31 PM, mikea wrote: > On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 02:10:48PM -0400, Gary Baribault wrote: >> Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? > First, it was a standard. > > Second, it got too much traffic. > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 02:10:48PM -0400, Gary Baribault wrote: > Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? First, it was a standard. Second, it got too much traffic. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
Whatever happened to postmas...@example.com? Gary B On 07/09/15 01:53 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > You could try the generic NOC email address, ipmc24hrsurveillanced...@bt.com > > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Bron Gondwana > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 7:22 AM > To: mailop@mailop.org > Subject: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems > > We're getting connection dropped after RCPT TO for customers trying to email > to BTInternet. > > (delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with > mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO) > > Does anybody have any contacts at btinternet to figure out if it's a more > general problem or if they've just decided to blackhole FastMail silently. > > Thanks, > > Bron. > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems
You could try the generic NOC email address, ipmc24hrsurveillanced...@bt.com Frank -Original Message- From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Bron Gondwana Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 7:22 AM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: [mailop] BTInternet delivery problems We're getting connection dropped after RCPT TO for customers trying to email to BTInternet. (delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO) Does anybody have any contacts at btinternet to figure out if it's a more general problem or if they've just decided to blackhole FastMail silently. Thanks, Bron. -- Bron Gondwana br...@fastmail.fm ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop
