Re: VIRGIL: death by water
>Yesterday I received the following message from Tom Bestul, my old >Anglo-Saxon teacher: > >>I am editing a commentary on Proverbs by Alexander Nequam (d. 1217), and >>have encountered what seems to me a very curious statement about Aeneas, >>namely that he drowned in the battle with Turnus, and this fact was covered >>up by Virgil: >> >>Eneas conflictum Turni sustinere non ualens, phaselum intrare coactus est et >>sic submersus, licet Eneis virgiliana ueritatem historie ob gloriam Romani >>nominis commutauerit. >> >>I've checked the usual places; Servius, Augustine, Orosius, Bernard >>Silvestris, etc., and can find the tradition that Aeneas died in the >>climactic battle, and that his body was nowhere to be found (Serv ad Aen >>4.620, e.g). >> >>But I can't find a source for Nequam's claim that Aeneas was forced into a >>boat and drowned (I believe drowning is the intended meeting, rather than >>mere submersal (like Turnus, earlier), since the account is included in a >>list of other notables who drowned, such as Osiris and Frederick >>Barbarossa). > >I had a few ideas, most of which had occurred to him already: > >1. Livy 1.2 states that the site where Aeneas died is above the river Numicus. > >For death by drowning, see > >2. Ovid, Met. 14 says that the mortal part of Aeneas was washed away in the >Numicus. This is probably the most important source for the tradition that >Aeneas drowned. -- Might check a good commentary on this passage to see if >it gives any cross-references. > >3. Servius, in Aen. 1.259, 4.620 (which records the bizarre tradition that >Aeneas fell into the river while sacrificing, as does Servius auctus on >12.794), 6.88, 7.150 and 7.797 (which claim that the body _was_ found in >the river, contradicting what he says elsewhere), and 12.139 (which doesn't >mention the death of Aeneas, but says that the water for all Roman >sacrifices came from the Numicus; this explains the tradition that Aeneas >fell into the river while sacrificing). > >4. Tibullus 2.5.43-44 has "illic sanctus eris cum te ueneranda Numici / >unda deum caelo miserit indigetem," where te = Aeneas. Tibullus doesn't say >how Aeneas came to be in the worshipful wave of Numicus, but this is pretty >good evidence that the death by water tradition is older than Virgil. -- >Might check a good commentary on this passage to see if it gives any >cross-references. > >What I can't explain is Alexander's reference to a boat. Servius auctus (in >Aen. 1.259 and 12.794) says that Aeneas may have fallen into the river >while fleeing Messapus or Mezentius. Bits of Servius auctus did circulate >in the Middle Ages, but not widely, and that doesn't really solve the >problem anyway. > >A possibility: Alexander is conflating the death by water tradition with >Aen. 10.653, in which Turnus is lured into a boat by a phantom-Aeneas, in >order to draw him away from the fighting and save his life. > >-- Does anyone have a better source for "phaselum intrare coactus"? > Maybe not better, but Smith's commentary on Tibullus identifies Augustine's City of God (18.19) as quoting Varro on the subject of Aeneas' death; Justin 43.1.10 also dealt with the death of Aeneas; and so apparently did an anonymous work called the Origo gentis romanae 14.2; these seem to be the only passages relating to the death of Aeneas that could have been available to Neckham and haven't yet been cited -- and of which I do not have copies readily available. Another possibility is that the boat is simply Neckham's own elaboration of the scenario; presenting "the real story" that was covered up by Virgil might equally hint at an attempt to flatter someone who died by drowning (or someone who lost a relation by drowning) James L. P. Butrica Department of Classics The Memorial University of Newfoundland St. John's NL A1C 5S7 (709) 737-7914 / (709) 753-5799 (home) --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: inscription at cumae
I know there are plaques at Cumae with passages from the Aeneid--several at the entrance to the Cave of the Sibyl and at least one on the Acropolis [in reference to Daedalus and the sacrifice of his wings]. Can anyone help me with a COMPLETE list of the specific lines from the Aeneid on those plaques? Much appreciated!!! David Emes --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: death by water
Yesterday I received the following message from Tom Bestul, my old Anglo-Saxon teacher: >I am editing a commentary on Proverbs by Alexander Nequam (d. 1217), and >have encountered what seems to me a very curious statement about Aeneas, >namely that he drowned in the battle with Turnus, and this fact was covered >up by Virgil: > >Eneas conflictum Turni sustinere non ualens, phaselum intrare coactus est et >sic submersus, licet Eneis virgiliana ueritatem historie ob gloriam Romani >nominis commutauerit. > >I've checked the usual places; Servius, Augustine, Orosius, Bernard >Silvestris, etc., and can find the tradition that Aeneas died in the >climactic battle, and that his body was nowhere to be found (Serv ad Aen >4.620, e.g). > >But I can't find a source for Nequam's claim that Aeneas was forced into a >boat and drowned (I believe drowning is the intended meeting, rather than >mere submersal (like Turnus, earlier), since the account is included in a >list of other notables who drowned, such as Osiris and Frederick >Barbarossa). I had a few ideas, most of which had occurred to him already: 1. Livy 1.2 states that the site where Aeneas died is above the river Numicus. For death by drowning, see 2. Ovid, Met. 14 says that the mortal part of Aeneas was washed away in the Numicus. This is probably the most important source for the tradition that Aeneas drowned. -- Might check a good commentary on this passage to see if it gives any cross-references. 3. Servius, in Aen. 1.259, 4.620 (which records the bizarre tradition that Aeneas fell into the river while sacrificing, as does Servius auctus on 12.794), 6.88, 7.150 and 7.797 (which claim that the body _was_ found in the river, contradicting what he says elsewhere), and 12.139 (which doesn't mention the death of Aeneas, but says that the water for all Roman sacrifices came from the Numicus; this explains the tradition that Aeneas fell into the river while sacrificing). 4. Tibullus 2.5.43-44 has "illic sanctus eris cum te ueneranda Numici / unda deum caelo miserit indigetem," where te = Aeneas. Tibullus doesn't say how Aeneas came to be in the worshipful wave of Numicus, but this is pretty good evidence that the death by water tradition is older than Virgil. -- Might check a good commentary on this passage to see if it gives any cross-references. What I can't explain is Alexander's reference to a boat. Servius auctus (in Aen. 1.259 and 12.794) says that Aeneas may have fallen into the river while fleeing Messapus or Mezentius. Bits of Servius auctus did circulate in the Middle Ages, but not widely, and that doesn't really solve the problem anyway. A possibility: Alexander is conflating the death by water tradition with Aen. 10.653, in which Turnus is lured into a boat by a phantom-Aeneas, in order to draw him away from the fighting and save his life. -- Does anyone have a better source for "phaselum intrare coactus"? --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] East Carolina UniversityVirgil reception, discussion, documents, &c --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Was Virgil murdered?
Some of you may remember J.-Y. Maleuvre, a French scholar who believes that Virgil was murdered by Augustus. Ultimately, we decided that this was better discussed elsewhere. He does have a website, however, and adds new material from time to time.The most recent update deals with passages from Ovid. I don't endorse Maleuvre's position, but he has asked me to pass along news of the update, and I am happy to do so. The URL, for those who are interested, is http://www.virgilmurder.org --- Dr. David Wilson-Okamura [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://virgil.org English Department, East Carolina University, Greenville, NC 27858-4889 --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
