Re: VIRGIL: unjustly neglected books

[Mario DiCesare]

Colleagues,
Not as old as Haecker (who, despite some tendentious arguments, is still 
worth reading), but very much worth reading are two books from the 1960s:
	Viktor Poeschl, The Art of Vergil. 1962, translation by Gerda Seligson 
of Die Dichtkunst Vergils, 1950.
	Michael C. J. Putname, The Poetry of the Aeneid. 1965

Mario Di Cesare
David Wilson-Okamura wrote:
The mention of Haecker's book (which I haven't read either) is a good
reminder that our grandfathers' books are still useful, even if our parents
don't read them anymore. Or to put it another way, good books become
obsolete (if at all) piece by piece, not all at once. 

What are some good books (or good chapters) on Virgil that people don't
read anymore but that you  think are still useful? Earlier this week, I was
reading Jackson Knight's Roman Vergil (1944) and learned a great deal from
the chapter on meter and style.
---
David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
East Carolina UniversityVirgil reception, discussion, documents, &c
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Mario A. Di Cesare
Distinguished Professor (emeritus), SUNY
Founder & Director, Medieval & Renaissance Texts
 & Studies (MRTS) & Pegasus Paperbooks (1978-1996)
Director, Pegasus Press (1996-1998; 2002-2004)
Member, College for Seniors, University of North Carolina
 Center for Creative Retirement at UNC Asheville
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Fairview, NC 28730-8727
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Re: VIRGIL: Mantovano

[Mario DiCesare]

Colleagues,
There are no doubt several possibilities to explain *Mantovano*. He was 
born in Mantua, so the epithet is appropriate. But the allusion that 
seems to me most attractive is in the final stanza of Tennyson's *To 
Virgil* --
	I salute thee, Mantovano,
	  I that loved thee since my day began,
	Wielder of the stateliest measure
	  ever molded by the lips of man."

While hardly up to his *Ulysses,* Tennyson's poem is worth knowing, 
especially by Vergilians.

Mario
Phillip Harris wrote:
I am not familiar with the name Mantovano as it relates to Virgil.  Can 
you tell me the connection?
 
Thank you,
 
Phillip Harris
--
Mario A. Di Cesare
Distinguished Professor (emeritus), SUNY
Founder & Director, Medieval & Renaissance Texts
 & Studies (MRTS) & Pegasus Paperbooks (1978-1996)
Director, Pegasus Press (1996-1998; 2002-2004)
Member, College for Seniors, University of North Carolina
 Center for Creative Retirement at UNC Asheville
101 Booter Road
Fairview, NC 28730-8727
   Phone: 828-628-3883

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VIRGIL: Vergilius Christianus

[Mario DiCesare]

Colleagues,

It only seems that we have neglected our Italian colleague's inquiry 
about "Maro Cristianus."


I must confess. Thinking that our colleague would find my childhood 
Italian, though somewhat barbaric and learned at home and on the streets 
of Greenwich Village (Little Italy) in the 1030s, less minatory than 
proper English, I wrote him off-list in a kind of desperate idiom:


"Piu di quarant'anni fa, l'editore Columbia University Press ha 
pubblicato un mio libro, "Vida's Christiad and Vergilian Epic." La 
potrei trovare, particolarmente nel capitolo secondo ("Vida's Ars 
poetica and Vergilian Humanism"), studi brevi di poeti cristiani epici 
del quattrocento, fra cui il Mantovano. Non ho usato l'appellazione di 
"Vergilio cristiano" perche, come certe ti e' noto, erano altri poeti 
nominati cosi -- fra cui Vida e Sannazaro."


Slim pickings, anyway. In another email, I noted the interesting study 
of Mantuan by Vladimir Zabughin, "Un beato poeta" (Rome 1917) and 
Zabughin's compact pages on Mantuan in his splendid two-volume "Vergilio 
nel Rinascimento Italiano: Da Dante a Torquato Tasso," Bologna: 
Zanichelli 1921-23.


Cheers,

Mario
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Re: VIRGIL: Loeb for student text?

[Mario DiCesare]

Dear Colleagues,

I agree with Christine Perkell: The Loeb would be deadly for such a 
course. There are several fine modern translations available, none of 
which of course "is" Vergil. Personally, I find Dryden's unattractive 
and difficult to read -- the end-stopped couplets seem to me the 
antithesis of epic style.


Cheers,

Mario A. Di Cesare






In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christine Perkell
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes


why not order two different paperbacks--one Aeneid, one Eclogues/
Georgics. I should think the Loeb would be deadly.



I admit to knowing nothing about what students want, even in Britain
let alone in America, nor have I ever looked at the Loeb in question
beyond seeing what Goold had to say about some difficulty, but what is
being sought in an English translation: something that gives a
reasonable approximation to the surface sense, or something that has
literary life? I can imagine that the former, if in workaday prose,
would be deadly, and the latter convey too much of the wrong life;
personally I find (for instance) Dryden a lot easier to take than Day
Lewis, but that is because I appreciate seventeenth-century poets more
than twentieth, not because in either case I feel I am reading Vergil.

Leofranc Holford-Strevens

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Re: VIRGIL: cheap Latin Virgil: is there anything in print?

[Mario DiCesare]

Dear Colleagues,

Splendid idea -- the poetry is so rich and compelling you just might get 
some new votaries.


Text: I don't know offhand of an inexpensive text but perhaps you could 
download the text from the web (I assume it's available) and provide, at 
very modest cost, xerox copies of selected passages. You'd probably have 
to provide line numbers for the passages -- any texts I've downloaded 
from the web have generally been innocent of such embellishments!


Cheers,

Mario A. Di Cesare



David Wilson-Okamura wrote:
As I explained several weeks ago, a couple of us at my university are 
teaching a course on Virgil in translation next semester and thought it 
might work to assign a facing-page translation, i.e., the Loeb. Trouble 
is, even the revised Loeb is still too stiff sounding.
 
I've abandoned the Loeb idea, but I'd still like for students to have 
the Latin text ready at hand, both while they're reading and while we're 
discussing it in class. This will give our classicists a chance to use 
their Latin for literary analysis and perhaps entice some our 
non-classicists to start learning the language.
 
One solution would be to require everyone in the class to buy the OCT, 
in addition to whichever translations we assign. But for the 
non-classicists in the bunch, that is going to seem unreasonable: why 
should I be required to purchase a $35 book that's written in a language 
I can't read?
 
My question then: does anyone know of another Latin text of Virgil 
that's in print and cheaper than the OCT?


---
Dr. David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org  david@virgil.org 


English Department  Virgil reception, discussion, documents, &c
East Carolina UniversitySparsa et neglecta coegi. -- Claude Fauchet
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VIRGIL: Re: scansion of II.763

[Mario DiCesare]

Dear Denise D-Henry,

I suggest that Troia be read as a trisyllabic, i.e., Tro - i - a.

Mario A. Di Cesare


Denise Davis-Henry wrote:
Caris Amicis:  My AP Vergil class has found a line from Bk II, 763, that 
we cannot fit into dactylic hexameter.


It reads:praedam adservabant.  Huc undique Troia gaza



Any advice?  Denise D-Henry


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VIRGIL: Good grief!

[Mario DiCesare]

There's really not much to say about this.

I assume this is not bona fide Mantovaniana? If so: How did the 
interloper interlope?


Cheers for peace!

Mario
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VIRGIL: Google groups

[Mario DiCesare]

Dear David,

Let's hope the spammers get bored and go away. However, if it continues 
or if there's more of the same and this sort of thing continues to be a 
problem, then I would urge that we move to Google groups. Many members 
of ALSC moved there when problems cropped up on the main site, and 
everything seems to be going well.


Cheers, and thanks for your good work.

Mario
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