Re: [Marxism] Gun control and assault weapons
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * > There was some disagreement, but in general we agreed that our society > would be better off if civilians did not possess assault weapons. We also > agreed that the police shouldn’t have them either. Exactly. I've argued our role is supporting gun control and bringing to the movement the need to include the police in those who need to be disarmed. But regarding "how" to confiscate guns... that isn't going to happen. We are a long way from even support for a nation-wide gun buyback program, why get into the weeds of hypothetical when there is real support today for other changes. Since mental health always ends up coming into the discussion too, socialists bring opposition to criminalizing people but instead universal health care. And any discussion on gun control must include suicides and non-mass shootings -- both related to handguns and not long guns. We should be bringing slogans/platforms for disarming the police, universal health care and revolutionary change to how our economic system is organized so that no one is buried in debt, losing their home, without work, attending schools without resources... Also, I think focusing on the fact that we can't fight tanks with ar15s misses some important points (not to mention the history of improvisation done by guerrillas to defeat armies). One being, in what world are we talking about that cops will be murdering fewer people because those individuals are carrying guns? It isn't the guns that have stopped police in the examples often brought up for how guns stop police abuse, it is the workers being organized. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Gun control and assault weapons
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/ https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/ Data on mass shootings paints a different portrait than the blood-red apocalyptic tones reverberating in the mass media. On a tangential note, the 2nd amendment was not passed to beef up slave patrols. https://www.theroot.com/2nd-amendment-passed-to-protect-slavery-no-1790894965?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=The_Root_facebook _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Gun control and assault weapons
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Interesting John, thanks. A couple of points you made perked my interest. Firstly, it must be genuinely worrying that the ultra-reactionary wing of the Right in the USA is armed to the teeth. I can't imagine how I would feel if the Tory right/UKIP had assault weapons in their homes, but I would hazard a guess that it would be distressing. This point got me thinking though: " Such a political movement will only develop seriously if it is outside of and opposed to the Democratic Party, which would welcome it in in order to smother it. So, that means taking the first steps towards building a mass working class party to oppose both the parties of big business." Do comrades on here think there is a link between the lack of a social democratic movement in America and the lack of gun control? I'm sure it's not the whole story, but given that social democracy's MO is essentially that the state is neutral and the vehicle for social change, it might go some way to explain why in many Western European capitalist democracies there is an acceptance that weapons should be controlled for public safety reasons, while in America there is not. On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 12:43 PM, John Reimann via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > We had a discussion the other evening among a small group about gun control > and the growing youth movement in favor of it. The issue got more > complicated by the minute. But in the end, I think the question boils down > to: “How should socialists relate to what seems to be a growing movement > among some high school students in favor of some sort of increased gun > regulation – in particular banning assault weapons?” > > There was some disagreement, but in general we agreed that our society > would be better off if civilians did not possess assault weapons. We also > agreed that the police shouldn’t have them either. > > Then matters get more complicated: How are you going to go about > confiscating them in the present political climate, where the NRA gun > fanatics/the racists are feeling so powerful and on the offensive? You are > going to end up with one shoot out after another, and with a rebellion from > among the police themselves, many of whom are also members of these racist > groups. Today, being armed to the teeth is normalized among many millions. > So, you have to reverse the entire political direction, the entire > political climate here in the US. That means developing a political > movement that takes up all the basic things that are bothering working > class people here – economics, racism, sexism, the environment, jobs... the > whole nine yards. > Such a political movement will only develop seriously if it is outside of > and opposed to the Democratic Party, which would welcome it in in order to > smother it. So, that means taking the first steps towards building a mass > working class party to oppose both the parties of big business. > Read entire article here: > https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/03/01/some-thoughts-on-gun-control/ > > > -- > *“How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone > willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine > sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us > thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?” *Sophie Scholl, > executed by the Nazis 2/22/1943. She was 21 years old. > Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ > options/marxism/nelsontim86%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Gun control and assault weapons
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * We had a discussion the other evening among a small group about gun control and the growing youth movement in favor of it. The issue got more complicated by the minute. But in the end, I think the question boils down to: “How should socialists relate to what seems to be a growing movement among some high school students in favor of some sort of increased gun regulation – in particular banning assault weapons?” There was some disagreement, but in general we agreed that our society would be better off if civilians did not possess assault weapons. We also agreed that the police shouldn’t have them either. Then matters get more complicated: How are you going to go about confiscating them in the present political climate, where the NRA gun fanatics/the racists are feeling so powerful and on the offensive? You are going to end up with one shoot out after another, and with a rebellion from among the police themselves, many of whom are also members of these racist groups. Today, being armed to the teeth is normalized among many millions. So, you have to reverse the entire political direction, the entire political climate here in the US. That means developing a political movement that takes up all the basic things that are bothering working class people here – economics, racism, sexism, the environment, jobs... the whole nine yards. Such a political movement will only develop seriously if it is outside of and opposed to the Democratic Party, which would welcome it in in order to smother it. So, that means taking the first steps towards building a mass working class party to oppose both the parties of big business. Read entire article here: https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/03/01/some-thoughts-on-gun-control/ -- *“How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?” *Sophie Scholl, executed by the Nazis 2/22/1943. She was 21 years old. Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
