RE: Global Crossing Contact / BGP and SONET interaction question
You should be able to tell from (cisco speak) show controller pos a/b The counters should be increasing if there are any issues with the line or the path Make sure both ends sync from the line (as it's a syncronous link). A path switch event with won't impact BGP, if it did the entire internet would be a constant flap. Typically path switches are 50ms in the metro and not much longer on long distance (or is done at the optical layer). It also could be that the protection may need to be uni-directional. Make sure you set scramble on the link as some multiplexers still have inband traffic signal issues that IP traffic can trigger. Regards, Neil.
Re: Global Crossing Contact / BGP and SONET interaction question
On 26 Jul 2006, at 08:29, Forrest W Christian wrote: Randy Epstein wrote: I don't have an answer to the root cause of your problem, and I'm not looking for a discussion on route dampening (there are enough debates onthis issue to make your head spin), but may I suggest you raise your hold timers to prevent your BGP sessions from going down on short disturbances as these? From what I can tell the disturbances are less than a second in duration. It doesn't appear that this is a hold-timer issue, although I would like GX to set it at something higher than 90 seconds (mine is already at a higher value- but the lower value wins during negotiation).I really suspect that either a) GX has some semi-weird configuration where the SONET ring switching from the normal to the protect path and back causes BGP to reset on the border router I'm attached to or b) There is a separate issue which is causing BGP to flap. Or of course, something else completely different. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to figure out how to talk to anyone at GX which actually has access to the routers and knows anything about BGP. -forrest The timing of protection switching on a SONET ring is of completely the wrong order to upset a BGP session. From memory there's a designed in upper bound of 200 mS from fault to fully restored with typical values being more like 50 mS. One possibility that occurs to me is that the A end here might be using a router with a SONET card, and the router software is propagating a SONET event through the stack causing BGP to react to an event it wouldn't even see on a physically separate SONET ADM. That is pure speculation though.
Re: Global Crossing Contact / BGP and SONET interaction question
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randy Epstein) [Wed 26 Jul 2006, 07:44 CEST]: Recently my BGP session has started flapping on the GX circuit... It looks something like this: Jul 21 21:33:32.703 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Up There are no other log entries during the periods when this occur. Unfortunately this causes enough prefix flaps that any prefixes which are preferred through GX are damped for like a half hour by certain providers as my BGP routes get added/withdrawn through the GX link. I don't have an answer to the root cause of your problem, and I'm not looking for a discussion on route dampening (there are enough debates on this issue to make your head spin), but may I suggest you raise your hold timers to prevent your BGP sessions from going down on short disturbances as these? Wrong error condition - hold timer isn't triggered when the interface for a directly connected neighbor goes down. You'll want Global Crossing to configure a hold-timer on their Juniper or a carrier-delay on their Cisco router. Or configure "no bgp fast-external-fallover" but that has more side effects. -- Niels.
Re: Global Crossing Contact / BGP and SONET interaction question
Randy Epstein wrote: I don't have an answer to the root cause of your problem, and I'm not looking for a discussion on route dampening (there are enough debates onthis issue to make your head spin), but may I suggest you raise your hold timers to prevent your BGP sessions from going down on short disturbances as these? From what I can tell the disturbances are less than a second in duration. It doesn't appear that this is a hold-timer issue, although I would like GX to set it at something higher than 90 seconds (mine is already at a higher value- but the lower value wins during negotiation).I really suspect that either a) GX has some semi-weird configuration where the SONET ring switching from the normal to the protect path and back causes BGP to reset on the border router I'm attached to or b) There is a separate issue which is causing BGP to flap. Or of course, something else completely different. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to figure out how to talk to anyone at GX which actually has access to the routers and knows anything about BGP. -forrest
RE: Global Crossing Contact / BGP and SONET interaction question
Forrest: >Recently my BGP session has started flapping on the GX circuit... It >looks something like this: > >Jul 21 21:33:32.703 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Up > >There are no other log entries during the periods when this occur. >Unfortunately this causes enough prefix flaps that any prefixes which >are preferred through GX are damped for like a half hour by certain >providers as my BGP routes get added/withdrawn through the GX link. I don't have an answer to the root cause of your problem, and I'm not looking for a discussion on route dampening (there are enough debates on this issue to make your head spin), but may I suggest you raise your hold timers to prevent your BGP sessions from going down on short disturbances as these? >-forrest Randy
Global Crossing Contact / BGP and SONET interaction question
Two somewhat intertwined questions. I'll ask the second part first. I buy transit from Global Crossing and another carrier on HDLC encapsulated DS3's. Recently my BGP session has started flapping on the GX circuit... It looks something like this: Jul 21 21:17:43.731 UTC: %BGP-3-NOTIFICATION: received from neighbor 67.17.168.73 6/6 (cease) 0 bytes Jul 21 21:17:43.731 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Down BGP Notification received Jul 21 21:18:25.439 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Up Jul 21 21:29:52.315 UTC: %BGP-3-NOTIFICATION: received from neighbor 67.17.168.73 6/6 (cease) 0 bytes Jul 21 21:29:52.315 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Down BGP Notification received Jul 21 21:30:38.511 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Up Jul 21 21:31:34.411 UTC: %BGP-3-NOTIFICATION: received from neighbor 67.17.168.73 6/6 (cease) 0 bytes Jul 21 21:31:34.411 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Down BGP Notification received Jul 21 21:32:20.535 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Up Jul 21 21:32:52.547 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Down Peer closed the session Jul 21 21:33:32.703 UTC: %BGP-5-ADJCHANGE: neighbor 67.17.168.73 Up There are no other log entries during the periods when this occur. Unfortunately this causes enough prefix flaps that any prefixes which are preferred through GX are damped for like a half hour by certain providers as my BGP routes get added/withdrawn through the GX link. GX claims (although I'm not sure they really know) that these are caused by SONET ring switches. I can believe this, since I haven't seen any real circuit flaps, and my understanding is that a SONET switch should generally be fast enough that you normally won't see the transition other than perhaps an error counter or two cranking up. However, it seems strange that I'm getting a 6/6 (cease) notification which I read as "configuration change" from their router. GX also seems to be at a loss to explain why my BGP is flapping - other than to point at the SONET switches. I guess I'm trying to find out if someone on the list recognizes what this might be so I can perhaps help GX find and fix this. I'm also kinda curious as to whether or not typically a SONET ring switch event would actually propagate into a router in such a way that BGP would try to shut down the BGP sessions. I'm just having a hard time visualizing how a supposedly below-layer-two switch would cause bgp to reset in this manner. Not being a SONET expert even by any long stretch of the imagination leaves me with some holes here, but I thought the whole goal of SONET when used to provide DS3 circuits was to hide the ring switches as much as possible from the DS3 circuits - realizing that framing may be hard to preserve on a ring switch which would cause momentary loss of sync or similar - which usually shows up as an error instead of a interface flap. And finally, does anyone have a contact within GX with a clue? So far I'm not sure I've talked to anyone who knows anything but how to spell BGP. I'd really like to talk to someone about the real cause of these flaps and try to resolve them so they don't reoccur. -forrest
RE: SONET MUX
> Hello, > > We are looking for a OC3 -> 3xDS3 MUX. (If it can grow up to > a OC12 -> > 12xDS3 thats a plus) > Sonet side will be 1+1 protected > > I have looked at the following equipment is there any other > sonet muxes that > i should look at? > > Adtran Opti-3 > Adtran OPTI-6100 > Cisco ONS 15310, 15327 > Fujitsu Flashwave 4010, 4100, 4300 > Fujitsu FLM 150 The difference between Fuji and Cisco is the backplane architecture. The former is redundant and is a five nines solution. The latter is not and is a four nines solution. You will find the cisco device cheaper to buy and operate. The cisco is also less RU and less power. If you haven't already lighted your own dark fiber network, there's a lot to know at layer 1 to be sure you get the redundancy you're looking for in layer 3. Have you considered leasing circuits from a LEC or buying a wavelength managed service? -M<
RE: SONET MUX
Nortel OM3400 (up to OC 12) or 3500 (if you need more than an OC12) series work great and are widely deployed in just about every CO I've ever been in. We use them and have had no issues. -Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik Sundberg Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 1:13 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: SONET MUX Hello, We are looking for a OC3 -> 3xDS3 MUX. (If it can grow up to a OC12 -> 12xDS3 thats a plus) Sonet side will be 1+1 protected I have looked at the following equipment is there any other sonet muxes that i should look at? Adtran Opti-3 Adtran OPTI-6100 Cisco ONS 15310, 15327 Fujitsu Flashwave 4010, 4100, 4300 Fujitsu FLM 150 Does anybody have and horror stories about the products that i have listed, recommendations, other products??? Thanks Erik
SONET MUX
Hello, We are looking for a OC3 -> 3xDS3 MUX. (If it can grow up to a OC12 -> 12xDS3 thats a plus) Sonet side will be 1+1 protected I have looked at the following equipment is there any other sonet muxes that i should look at? Adtran Opti-3 Adtran OPTI-6100 Cisco ONS 15310, 15327 Fujitsu Flashwave 4010, 4100, 4300 Fujitsu FLM 150 Does anybody have and horror stories about the products that i have listed, recommendations, other products??? Thanks Erik
Looking for feedback on Huawei Ethernet over Sonet gear
I am looking for feedback on Huawei's Ethernet over Sonet gear, specifically its ability to do multi-point to multi-point between locations, 802.1Q and RSTP. regards, fletcher -- Fletcher Kittredge Great Works Internet 8 Pomerleau St. Biddeford, ME 04005-9457
Re: SONET
Quantitative analysis confirms said anecdote in many places other than the Baltimore tunnel. It varies widely by city, some are more resilient than others depending on a variety of factors ranging from geography to zoning ordinances. We just finished a comparison between NYC and Charlotte that had some interesting results - sometimes being a flat, waterless, boring place is a good thing. - Original Message - From: David Barak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:50 pm Subject: SONET > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > (Anybody here *NOT* seen cases where the 2 fibers > > leave the building on opposite > > sides, go down different streets - and rejoin 2 > > miles down the way because > > there's only one convenient bridge/tunnel/etc over > > the river, or similar?) > > > confirming anecdote: > > Remember the Baltimore tunnel fire? The protect ring > was in the conduit on one side, and the working was on > the other... > > David Barak > Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise: > http://www.listentothefranchise.com > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >
SONET
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > (Anybody here *NOT* seen cases where the 2 fibers > leave the building on opposite > sides, go down different streets - and rejoin 2 > miles down the way because > there's only one convenient bridge/tunnel/etc over > the river, or similar?) > confirming anecdote: Remember the Baltimore tunnel fire? The protect ring was in the conduit on one side, and the working was on the other... David Barak Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise: http://www.listentothefranchise.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
Need Help finding support for specific technology with SONET gear
Please CC me in all replies or reply offlist if not appropriate for list. I am trying to find equipment for an OC48+ ring for hauling DS3s. I've read lots of documentation on handling fiber failures and repathing the circuits the other direction on the ring. I know a lot of providers will sell half the OC48 as protected and the other half as unprotected, fiber cuts resulting in the unprotected circuits all being taken down for the protected circuits. But I need something a little different. I need something that will detect LOS on a single DS3 and repath that DS3 to a different port at a remote location. While not the cleanest transition, it will handle catastrophic failure of edge router configurations by redirecting circuits to a different location where routing is mirrored (and down until signaling is established). I also need something that will support transitioning all circuits leaving the ring at one location to another when communication is lost with that site. I can't imagine that someone hasn't done this, but I can't find any information on it. I'm not very familiar with SONET (a little lower level than I usually deal with) or what various vendors support. My telco boys tell me that their existing gear won't handle repathing single DS3's when they alarm; only fiber cuts. In addition, it would be nice if returning to the primary path can be manual or configured to wait a specified time interval to insure stability (nothing like equipment which likes to bring circuits up twice before resuming service). Hints, tips, and tricks welcome. I have certain edge routers that I need to ensure availability even during catastrophic failure without requiring each of the customers on those routers to maintain separate circuits. Thanks, Jack Bates
Canadian RBOC (Aliant) SONET ring sabotage
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&ie=UTF-8&newsclusterurl=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040610/PHONES10/TPNational/Canada shorter URL: http://ln.ooz.net/27115 Several days ago somebody cut both sides of a SONET ring in Newfoundland. From the article: The Atlantic Communications and Technical Workers, the union representing the striking employees, was quick to say they weren't responsible for the massive phone failure, with a spokesman adding that union members have been warned not to tamper with phone-company equipment.
Re: WorldCom's DWDM capabilities/OC12 SONET vs DWDM
Hi, On Thursday 27 February 2003 18:16, Max's Lists wrote: > thanks all for your input. > > on closer examination I found that the only two countries in Europe where > WorldCom seems to sell wavelength services retail are Belgium and > Luxemburg. There is some talk about selling DWDM wholesale in Spain, but I > am afraid this is just boilerplate language. WorldCom don't sell DWDM in Spain. They use capacity from other well know provideers. > if anyone knows anything about how to figure out DWDM prices in those two > countires ... i would be greatly appreciative If you need something in Spain mailme off list. Regards, Daniel
Re: WorldCom's DWDM capabilities/OC12 SONET vs DWDM
thanks all for your input. on closer examination I found that the only two countries in Europe where WorldCom seems to sell wavelength services retail are Belgium and Luxemburg. There is some talk about selling DWDM wholesale in Spain, but I am afraid this is just boilerplate language. if anyone knows anything about how to figure out DWDM prices in those two countires ... i would be greatly appreciative - Original Message - From: "David Barak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Max's Lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:18 PM Subject: Re: WorldCom's DWDM capabilities/OC12 SONET vs DWDM > > > --- Max's Lists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > it has come to my > > attention that WorldCom > > doesn't seem to have a DWDM network to speak of, and > > reportedly has spotty > > DWDM coverage only in metro areas, a fact well > > hidden from company's > > marketing literature that seems to avoid talking > > about speeds above oc-3. > > Your impression is pretty much correct. WorldCom > bought/obtained a large quantity of fiber before DWDM > capability was widely available, and has not spent > very much money on CapEX in the past couple of years. > Their current focus seems to be trying to maximize the > usage of their existing infrastructure. > > > > > > Two questions -- can anyone verify/offer more > > insights/point to better > > resources on WorldCom's DWDM startegy? > > > > And -- as the rumor mill seems to suggest -- is it > > indeed true that despite > > obvious network economics SONET-based OC-12 and > > OC-48 circuits are indeed > > enjoying lower street prices than DWDM oc-12/48 > > circuits? Any thoughts as to > > why this info is indeed correct? > > > This is also true, because a large number of providers > are in a similar place to WorldCom - i.e. > overprovisioned SONET gear, and don't want to upgrade > to a DWDM-based system until their SONET cicuits > absolutely need it. It shouldn't be all that > surprising - where you'll really see a lot of DWDM is > those providers who had loaded up on dark fiber, and > are now starting to light them. > > -David Barak > fully RFC 1925 compliant > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: WorldCom's DWDM capabilities/OC12 SONET vs DWDM
--- Max's Lists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: it has come to my > attention that WorldCom > doesn't seem to have a DWDM network to speak of, and > reportedly has spotty > DWDM coverage only in metro areas, a fact well > hidden from company's > marketing literature that seems to avoid talking > about speeds above oc-3. Your impression is pretty much correct. WorldCom bought/obtained a large quantity of fiber before DWDM capability was widely available, and has not spent very much money on CapEX in the past couple of years. Their current focus seems to be trying to maximize the usage of their existing infrastructure. > > Two questions -- can anyone verify/offer more > insights/point to better > resources on WorldCom's DWDM startegy? > > And -- as the rumor mill seems to suggest -- is it > indeed true that despite > obvious network economics SONET-based OC-12 and > OC-48 circuits are indeed > enjoying lower street prices than DWDM oc-12/48 > circuits? Any thoughts as to > why this info is indeed correct? This is also true, because a large number of providers are in a similar place to WorldCom - i.e. overprovisioned SONET gear, and don't want to upgrade to a DWDM-based system until their SONET cicuits absolutely need it. It shouldn't be all that surprising - where you'll really see a lot of DWDM is those providers who had loaded up on dark fiber, and are now starting to light them. -David Barak fully RFC 1925 compliant __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
WorldCom's DWDM capabilities/OC12 SONET vs DWDM
Folks: in working on a project it has come to my attention that WorldCom doesn't seem to have a DWDM network to speak of, and reportedly has spotty DWDM coverage only in metro areas, a fact well hidden from company's marketing literature that seems to avoid talking about speeds above oc-3. Two questions -- can anyone verify/offer more insights/point to better resources on WorldCom's DWDM startegy? And -- as the rumor mill seems to suggest -- is it indeed true that despite obvious network economics SONET-based OC-12 and OC-48 circuits are indeed enjoying lower street prices than DWDM oc-12/48 circuits? Any thoughts as to why this info is indeed correct? Max
RE: Cheap SONET mux recommendations
Don't think you can find products *without* NEBS/DC for products of this type, but have a look at: http://www.oasystel.com/ Regards, Andrew taqua.com > -Original Message- > From: Mathew Lodge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:17 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Cheap SONET mux recommendations > > > > I'm looking for recommendations for a small, cheap SONET ADM > for our labs. > It doesn't have to be fancy, just basic ADM and TDM mux > functionality -- we > don't care about NEBS, redundancy, remote management, cabling > simplicity, > power etc. > > Our ideal system would take in a channelized OC3/STM-1 and > drop out CT3 / > CE3 and T1 / E1 trunks. We're open to having a cheap > OC3/STM-1 to CT3/CE3 > ADM, and then using an M13 to demux the CT3/CE3, if that's a better > combination. > > Replies off-list appreciated (I can summarize if there is interest). > > Thanks, > > Mathew > > >
Cheap SONET mux recommendations
I'm looking for recommendations for a small, cheap SONET ADM for our labs. It doesn't have to be fancy, just basic ADM and TDM mux functionality -- we don't care about NEBS, redundancy, remote management, cabling simplicity, power etc. Our ideal system would take in a channelized OC3/STM-1 and drop out CT3 / CE3 and T1 / E1 trunks. We're open to having a cheap OC3/STM-1 to CT3/CE3 ADM, and then using an M13 to demux the CT3/CE3, if that's a better combination. Replies off-list appreciated (I can summarize if there is interest). Thanks, Mathew
