[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling
Dear Francis I am not against dots per se but rather like pain-killers they have to be used carefully and with appreciation of their drawbacks/dangers. * Using dots without lots of prior listening for people with limited experience and knowledge of the tradition makes it almost impossible for them to produce a convincing nuance-enriched rendition of the traditional pieces. This is a bit less critical in Peacock/Clough type pieces where the inherent intricacy of the structure/variations makes little space for personal interpretation in the first place. Interestingly, I recently heard Stewart Hardy make a similar point re much of the Scott Skinner fiddle material. * Coming at a tune from the dots makes far more difficult to memorise the piece. If dots are still needed at the performance stage a goodly amount of brain capacity goes to responding to the dots rather than listening to what is happening or controlling the instrument. Having said this we'll be dotting in my class at The Sage Gateshead this evening but as participants will testify I am doing my best to wean them off. Regards Anthony P.S. If I may make so bold, the Playford type pieces with which you opened the second half of the NPS concert last month worked beautifully with the dots as a faithful rendition of what's written fits the smooth elegance of that style of dance. --- On Tue, 3/11/09, Francis Wood wrote: From: Francis Wood Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling To: "Anthony Robb" Cc: "NSP group" Date: Tuesday, 3 November, 2009, 10:15 AM On 3 Nov 2009, at 10:01, Anthony Robb wrote: > In my 20+ years playing up north I got to at least a couple of hundred > dances, parties, sessions, music evenings & concerts with a fair few > established players and never saw a page of dots used once Perhaps they were saying "Look out, its that Anthony. Quick, hide the dots, everyone!" More seriously, Anthony, Margaret & others, I am hugely enjoying this correspondance which shows this list at its best. Thanks for some great stuff. Important that it gets written down, and even if it gets no further than an email posting, that in itself has some permanence. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling
Thank you, Francis, for your appreciation. Dobson played in Mr. Thompson's String Band, as well as with Mr C A Richardson of Alnwick, whose compositions Dobson copied into his book. We will never know for sure whether or not Dobson, Darling, Readshaw and Wallace used 'dots' for performance purposes. Probably they played familiar tunes from memory; perhaps they wrote down new tunes which they'd acquired by ear so that they weren't forgotten. Maybe they copied tunes from publications/other people's books to save the expense of buying music. I have done all three since I was a teenager. But we weren't there in the nineteenth century, so all we can do is take the evidence we have and try to put it together in a logical way. Apologies for there being no reference to smallpipes, but here are a couple of snippets which people can interpret as they wish: The Alnwick Journal July 16, 1860: QUADRILLE BAND Mr B. Thompson begs leave to intimate that his String Band is always ready to attend Horticultural and other Fetes, Balls, Soirees, Pic-nics, and similar parties. Music, and Musical Instruments of every description, supplied to order on the shortest notice. The Alnwick Journal October 15, 1859: NORTHUMBERLAND LIGHT INFANTRY As the Band of the above regiment is about to be augmented, 10 or 12 Young Men from 16 years of age, and upwards of 5 feet in height are immediately required. They will receive a sound instruction in music theory, and upon the following instruments: Clarionets, Cornopeans, French Horns, Euphoniums and Side Drum. Margaret Francis Wood wrote : On 3 Nov 2009, at 10:01, Anthony Robb wrote: > In my 20+ years playing up north I got to at least a couple of > hundred > dances, parties, sessions, music evenings & concerts with a fair few > established players and never saw a page of dots used once Perhaps they were saying "Look out, its that Anthony. Quick, hide the dots, everyone!" More seriously, Anthony, Margaret & others, I am hugely enjoying this correspondance which shows this list at its best. Thanks for some great stuff. Important that it gets written down, and even if it gets no further than an email posting, that in itself has some permanence. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- This message was sent on behalf of marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/12993083.html
[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling
On 3 Nov 2009, at 10:01, Anthony Robb wrote: In my 20+ years playing up north I got to at least a couple of hundred dances, parties, sessions, music evenings & concerts with a fair few established players and never saw a page of dots used once Perhaps they were saying "Look out, its that Anthony. Quick, hide the dots, everyone!" More seriously, Anthony, Margaret & others, I am hugely enjoying this correspondance which shows this list at its best. Thanks for some great stuff. Important that it gets written down, and even if it gets no further than an email posting, that in itself has some permanence. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling
Hello Margaret Do you have any more info about William Dobson? Are you suggesting that he used dots in performance? In my 20+ years playing up north I got to at least a couple of hundred dances, parties, sessions, music evenings & concerts with a fair few established players and never saw a page of dots used once. Quite a few Scottish players brought their dots with them to perform and Joe began to use them when teaching bigger classes but the concept of regular players relying on dots is almost unthinkable to me. Perhaps there was some sort of east/west/north/south divide?? Possibly not when we remember that Morpeth Gathering rules at one time penalised players for using dots - is that still the case I wonder? Cheers Anthony --- On Tue, 3/11/09, marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk wrote: From: marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 3 November, 2009, 9:13 AM Yes, the William Darling is Grace Darling's father. It's a lovely little manuscript, currently on loan to the RNLI Museum at Bamburgh. William Dobson's manuscript also contains a list of tunes he could play, neatly divided up according to key signature; he obviously didn't feel the need to write down tunes he could play without dots! Best wishes Margaret -- Gibbons, John wrote : And the place! John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.d... [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.d...] On Behalf Of Paul Gretton Sent: 02 November 2009 17:10 To: [3]...@cs.d... Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file This is fascinating stuff. Thanks, Margaret. BTW, could the William Darling whom you mention possibly be Grace Darling's dad? The date you give could fit. Cheers, Paul Gretton -- This message was sent on behalf of [4]marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk at openSubscriber.com [5]http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/12990303. html To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.d 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.d 3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.d 4. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk 5. http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/12990303.html 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling
Yes, the William Darling is Grace Darling's father. It's a lovely little manuscript, currently on loan to the RNLI Museum at Bamburgh. William Dobson's manuscript also contains a list of tunes he could play, neatly divided up according to key signature; he obviously didn't feel the need to write down tunes he could play without dots! Best wishes Margaret -- Gibbons, John wrote : And the place! John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.d... [mailto:lute-...@cs.d...] On Behalf Of Paul Gretton Sent: 02 November 2009 17:10 To: n...@cs.d... Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file This is fascinating stuff. Thanks, Margaret. BTW, could the William Darling whom you mention possibly be Grace Darling's dad? The date you give could fit. Cheers, Paul Gretton -- This message was sent on behalf of marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/12990303.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file - William Darling
And the place! John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gretton Sent: 02 November 2009 17:10 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file This is fascinating stuff. Thanks, Margaret. BTW, could the William Darling whom you mention possibly be Grace Darling's dad? The date you give could fit. Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Margaret Watchorn Sent: 02 November 2009 17:02 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file I've found the recent comments about music in north Northumberland very interesting. I grew up among those who learned and played by ear (Joe Hutton, Will Atkinson, Jimmy Little, the Cheviot Ranters band in its various line-ups, and my dad, among many others) and owe them a great deal - including dozens of splendid tunes which still live in my head, if not on paper. When I was learning the pipes in 1974/75 with Joe at Alnwick Pipers Society, it was clear that he could also 'read the dots' when necessary. George Mitchell of the Cheviot Ranters was a very competent (and beautifully neat) amanuensis for other members of the band, and it's evident from some of the old sheets of manuscript I have that Willy Miller (fiddle player) could also jot down a tune when necessary. There are a few wonderful hand-written manuscripts from north Northumberland from the early and mid nineteenth century which indicate that some ordinary folk were competent music readers and writers. William Dobson of West Thirston (a joiner and fishing rod maker) filled his manuscript book with favourite tunes for the fiddle, including second parts for some melodies, beautifully written over a period of at least thirty years. The inclusion of about 20 hymn and metrical psalm tunes notated in up to four parts in a West Gallery style (tune often in the tenor line) indicates that he had some connection with a non-conformist chapel. William Darling of Bamburgh (c. 1810) also kept a manuscript book. His own attempts at composition are sometimes rudimentary - bar lines in the wrong place, note lengths not always accurate etc - but he clearly understood the basic principles of notation, as did John Readshaw and George Wallace, just over the border into Cumbria. So there's definitely evidence of people being able to read/notate music in north Northumberland, as well as plenty of examples of those who play (or played) by ear. Best wishes Margaret To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
