Re: [NTG-context] Protect the lettrine

[Otared Kavian via ntg-context]

Hi,

Adding \hfill\break to the short line solves the issue, but probably there is a 
better way to achieve the correct result.

\setupinitial[n=2]

\setuphead[chapter][
  after={\placeinitial},
  page=no,
]

\starttext
\chapter{one}
Kermit Ruffins \hfill\break % <---

Meet me at the second line.

\chapter{two}
\input knuth

Meet me at the second line.
\stoptext


Best regards: Otared

> On 13 Jun 2023, at 04:43, Thangalin via ntg-context  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm using KeenWrite Themes (specifically, Boschet) to typeset a chapter 
> wherein the first letter is a lettrine. When the first paragraph is too 
> short, the second paragraph overlaps the lettrine.
> 
> % SOT
> \setupinitial[n=2]
> 
> \setuphead[chapter][
>   after={\placeinitial},
>   page=no,
> ]
> 
> \starttext
> \chapter{one}
> Kermit Ruffins
> 
> Meet me at the second line.
> 
> \chapter{two}
> \input knuth
> 
> Meet me at the second line.
> \stoptext
> % EOT
> 
> Produces: https://i.stack.imgur.com/kNDqw.png 
> 
> 
> How would you instruct ConTeXt to "protect" the lettrine such that regardless 
> of whether the first paragraph spans multiple lines, a short first paragraph 
> will still prevent the second paragraph from overlapping the lettrine?
> 
> That is, the setups should work in both cases, without any knowledge about 
> the first paragraph length being added between \starttext and \stoptext.
> 
> ConTeXt LMTX version: 2023.06.04 18:58
> 
> Thank you!
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___

Otared Kavian
e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




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[NTG-context] xml nbsp?

[Hans van der Meer via ntg-context]

What happened to the non breaking space in XML? It has disappeared in a way. See the minimal example attached.dr. Hans van der Meer

test-nbsp.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [NTG-context] letfrozen?

[Hans van der Meer via ntg-context]

Of course. But without that \enabledirective I can redefine the frozen macro at 
will, as a simple test did show.
The crux, however, is that one wants to protect the frozen code always, 
irrespective of that directive setting.

dr. Hans van der Meer
> On 12 Jun 2023, at 19:47, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
> wrote:
> 
> On 6/12/2023 12:32 PM, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context wrote:
>>> On 12 Jun 2023, at 11:12, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 6/12/2023 10:57 AM, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context wrote:
 The manual LMTX-primitives on page 21 tells me:
You can explicitly freeze an unfrozen macro.
...
A redefinition will now give: You can't redefine a frozen macro.
 But is this true? The following code seems to contradict this:
 \def\HOME{myhome}
 \writestatus{1}{\meaning\HOME}
 \letfrozen\HOME
 \writestatus{2}{\meaning\HOME}
 \def\HOME{other home}
 \writestatus{3}{\meaning\HOME}
 
 Is this mechanism broken? It looks so useful to prevent accidental 
 redefinition!
>>> 
>>> here i run with
>>> 
>>> \enabledirectives[overloadmode=error]
>>> 
>>> (you can do that in cont-sys.mkxl)
>>> 
>>> \enabledirectives[overloadmode=warning]
>>> Hans
>>> 
>> Pity. Now I get on loading the tex file:
>> "csname overload > fatal error, protection level 4, control sequence 'nbsp', 
>> properties 'immutable', file 't-hvdm-text.tex', line 63
>> while I had hoped that frozen would give me something like:
>> illegal attempt to redefine \HOME
>> Byproduct (not unwanted) the above illegal redefinition to be solved :-)
>> May I ask why obviously the frozen-mechanism seems (yet?) unimplemented?
> It's okay and has been around for quite a while now.
> 
> \enabledirectives[overloadmode=error]
> 
> \starttext
> 
>\frozen\def\HOME{}
> 
>\def\HOME{!}
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> -
>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
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Re: [NTG-context] xml nbsp?

[Bruce Horrocks via ntg-context]

  is not a pre-defined named character in XML (but it is in HTML which 
lulls you into a false sense of security).

See the link below for some more detail and a fix.



> On 13 Jun 2023, at 11:01, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context 
>  wrote:
> 
> What happened to the non breaking space in XML? It has disappeared in a way. 
> See the minimal example attached.
> 
> dr. Hans van der Meer
> 


test-nbsp.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
> 

—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK

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Re: [NTG-context] letfrozen?

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 6/13/2023 12:43 PM, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context wrote:

Of course. But without that \enabledirective I can redefine the frozen macro at 
will, as a simple test did show.
The crux, however, is that one wants to protect the frozen code always, 
irrespective of that directive setting.
there are several caregories, like primitive, permanent, instance, 
mutable, immutable and frozen


at some point we could deepfreeze them all but in the end that makes no 
sense because then we can't for instance run tikz


so in the end it's mostly about warnings and errors (one can actually 
distinguish between categories)


there's also \overloaded and \aliased and \enforced etc

of course you can at some point do

\newcount\overloadmode

but who can predict side effects (and one can argue that tex is 
progrmamable and that users get what they ask for) and keep in mind that 
all should also not hit performance too badly


there's quite a bit involved here .. pretty all context commands have 
some kind of flagging and protection (which also is handy for tracing)


You can spent hours playing with prefixes:

\frozen
\permanent
\immutable
\mutable
%primitive
\noaligned
\instance
\untraced
\global
\tolerant
\protected
\overloaded
\aliased
\immediate
\deferred
\semiprotected
\enforced
\inherited
\constant

if you're in the mood.

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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Re: [NTG-context] Protect the lettrine

[Thangalin via ntg-context]

Thanks Otared,

Unfortunately, that's adding content between \starttext and \stoptext,
which isn't tenable in my situation. The user is writing in Markdown, which
is automatically converted to XHTML then passed to ConTeXt, and so the
setups need to account for this scenario without modifying the source
document.

Cheers!

On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 1:30 AM Otared Kavian via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Adding \hfill\break to the short line solves the issue, but probably there
> is a better way to achieve the correct result.
>
> \setupinitial[n=2]
>
> \setuphead[chapter][
>   after={\placeinitial},
>   page=no,
> ]
>
> \starttext
> \chapter{one}
> Kermit Ruffins \hfill\break % <---
>
> Meet me at the second line.
>
> \chapter{two}
> \input knuth
>
> Meet me at the second line.
> \stoptext
>
>
> Best regards: Otared
>
> On 13 Jun 2023, at 04:43, Thangalin via ntg-context 
> wrote:
>
> I'm using KeenWrite Themes (specifically, Boschet) to typeset a chapter
> wherein the first letter is a lettrine. When the first paragraph is too
> short, the second paragraph overlaps the lettrine.
>
> % SOT
> \setupinitial[n=2]
>
> \setuphead[chapter][
>   after={\placeinitial},
>   page=no,
> ]
>
> \starttext
> \chapter{one}
> Kermit Ruffins
>
> Meet me at the second line.
>
> \chapter{two}
> \input knuth
>
> Meet me at the second line.
> \stoptext
> % EOT
>
> Produces: https://i.stack.imgur.com/kNDqw.png
>
> How would you instruct ConTeXt to "protect" the lettrine such that
> regardless of whether the first paragraph spans multiple lines, a short
> first paragraph will still prevent the second paragraph from overlapping
> the lettrine?
>
> That is, the setups should work in both cases, without any knowledge about
> the first paragraph length being added between \starttext and \stoptext.
>
> ConTeXt LMTX version: 2023.06.04 18:58
>
> Thank you!
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
>
>
> Otared Kavian
> e-mail: ota...@gmail.com 
> Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
>
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Re: [NTG-context] Protect the lettrine

[Thangalin via ntg-context]

Here's the output I'm looking to achieve:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/XeZQS.png

Note how the second line honours the lettrine's width and padding, in the
same way that the second line of the first paragraph in Knuth's quote
respects the width and padding.

On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 2:01 PM Thangalin  wrote:

> Thanks Otared,
>
> Unfortunately, that's adding content between \starttext and \stoptext,
> which isn't tenable in my situation. The user is writing in Markdown, which
> is automatically converted to XHTML then passed to ConTeXt, and so the
> setups need to account for this scenario without modifying the source
> document.
>
> Cheers!
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 1:30 AM Otared Kavian via ntg-context <
> ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Adding \hfill\break to the short line solves the issue, but probably
>> there is a better way to achieve the correct result.
>>
>> \setupinitial[n=2]
>>
>> \setuphead[chapter][
>>   after={\placeinitial},
>>   page=no,
>> ]
>>
>> \starttext
>> \chapter{one}
>> Kermit Ruffins \hfill\break % <---
>>
>> Meet me at the second line.
>>
>> \chapter{two}
>> \input knuth
>>
>> Meet me at the second line.
>> \stoptext
>>
>>
>> Best regards: Otared
>>
>> On 13 Jun 2023, at 04:43, Thangalin via ntg-context 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm using KeenWrite Themes (specifically, Boschet) to typeset a chapter
>> wherein the first letter is a lettrine. When the first paragraph is too
>> short, the second paragraph overlaps the lettrine.
>>
>> % SOT
>> \setupinitial[n=2]
>>
>> \setuphead[chapter][
>>   after={\placeinitial},
>>   page=no,
>> ]
>>
>> \starttext
>> \chapter{one}
>> Kermit Ruffins
>>
>> Meet me at the second line.
>>
>> \chapter{two}
>> \input knuth
>>
>> Meet me at the second line.
>> \stoptext
>> % EOT
>>
>> Produces: https://i.stack.imgur.com/kNDqw.png
>>
>> How would you instruct ConTeXt to "protect" the lettrine such that
>> regardless of whether the first paragraph spans multiple lines, a short
>> first paragraph will still prevent the second paragraph from overlapping
>> the lettrine?
>>
>> That is, the setups should work in both cases, without any knowledge
>> about the first paragraph length being added between \starttext and
>> \stoptext.
>>
>> ConTeXt LMTX version: 2023.06.04 18:58
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> Otared Kavian
>> e-mail: ota...@gmail.com 
>> Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___
>>
>
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Re: [NTG-context] Protect the lettrine

[linguafalsa--- via ntg-context]

On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 02:01:14PM -0700, Thangalin via ntg-context wrote:
> Thanks Otared,
> 
> Unfortunately, that's adding content between \starttext and \stoptext,
> which isn't tenable in my situation. The user is writing in Markdown, which
> is automatically converted to XHTML then passed to ConTeXt, and so the
> setups need to account for this scenario without modifying the source
> document.
> 

Yeah yeah yeah, tenable. A lot of things aren't tenable. Anyhow,
What source document are you talking about here?

You're already sourcing the lines after chapter one. As a matter of
fact, if you weren't sourcing, then you'd have zilch, nada, zero, empty,
null, void, an space, a separation, an abstract 

Just define Kermit Muffins and it should be good to go 


\setupinitial[n=2]

\def\KermitMuffins{\vbox{Kermit Muffins\par\hskip 1.3cm \tfd Meet me at
the second line}}

\setuphead[chapter][
  after={\placeinitial},
  page=no,
]

\starttext
\chapter{one}
\KermitMuffins

\chapter{two}
\input knuth

Meet me at the second line.
\stoptext



> Cheers!
> 
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 1:30 AM Otared Kavian via ntg-context <
> ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Adding \hfill\break to the short line solves the issue, but probably there
> > is a better way to achieve the correct result.
> >
> > \setupinitial[n=2]
> >
> > \setuphead[chapter][
> >   after={\placeinitial},
> >   page=no,
> > ]
> >
> > \starttext
> > \chapter{one}
> > Kermit Ruffins \hfill\break % <---
> >
> > Meet me at the second line.
> >
> > \chapter{two}
> > \input knuth
> >
> > Meet me at the second line.
> > \stoptext
> >




> >
> > Best regards: Otared
> >
> > On 13 Jun 2023, at 04:43, Thangalin via ntg-context 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I'm using KeenWrite Themes (specifically, Boschet) to typeset a chapter
> > wherein the first letter is a lettrine. When the first paragraph is too
> > short, the second paragraph overlaps the lettrine.
> >
> > % SOT
> > \setupinitial[n=2]
> >
> > \setuphead[chapter][
> >   after={\placeinitial},
> >   page=no,
> > ]
> >
> > \starttext
> > \chapter{one}
> > Kermit Ruffins
> >
> > Meet me at the second line.
> >
> > \chapter{two}
> > \input knuth
> >
> > Meet me at the second line.
> > \stoptext
> > % EOT
> >
> > Produces: https://i.stack.imgur.com/kNDqw.png
> >
> > How would you instruct ConTeXt to "protect" the lettrine such that
> > regardless of whether the first paragraph spans multiple lines, a short
> > first paragraph will still prevent the second paragraph from overlapping
> > the lettrine?
> >
> > That is, the setups should work in both cases, without any knowledge about
> > the first paragraph length being added between \starttext and \stoptext.
> >
> > ConTeXt LMTX version: 2023.06.04 18:58
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > ___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> > the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> >
> > ___
> >
> >
> > Otared Kavian
> > e-mail: ota...@gmail.com 
> > Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> > the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> >
> > ___
> >

> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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-- 
... an anecdote from IBM's Yorktown Heights Research Center.  When a
programmer used his new computer terminal, all was fine when he was sitting
down, but he couldn't log in to the system when he was standing up.  That
behavior was 100 percent repeatable: he could always log in when sitting and
never when standing.

Most of us just sit back and marvel at such a story; how could that terminal
know whether the poor guy was sitting or standing?  Good debuggers, though,
know that there has to be a reason.  El

Re: [NTG-context] Protect the lettrine

[Thangalin via ntg-context]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, linguafalsa, I appreciate it.

The source document is written in Markdown using KeenWrite, my Markdown
editor. Inserting typesetting instructions into the document would defeat
the software's architecture, hence being untenable. After the Markdown is
transformed into XHTML, a specific theme instructs ConTeXt how to typeset
the XHTML.

Here's a video showing how theme selection works:

https://youtu.be/3QpX70O5S30?list=PLB-WIt1cZYLm1MMx2FBG9KWzPIoWZMKu_&t=14

I hope this explains the situation more clearly about why changing the code
between \starttext and \stoptext isn't an option, as you've done with
introducing and using a macro.

Greets!

On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 7:33 PM linguafalsa--- via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 02:01:14PM -0700, Thangalin via ntg-context wrote:
> > Thanks Otared,
> >
> > Unfortunately, that's adding content between \starttext and \stoptext,
> > which isn't tenable in my situation. The user is writing in Markdown,
> which
> > is automatically converted to XHTML then passed to ConTeXt, and so the
> > setups need to account for this scenario without modifying the source
> > document.
> >
>
> Yeah yeah yeah, tenable. A lot of things aren't tenable. Anyhow,
> What source document are you talking about here?
>
> You're already sourcing the lines after chapter one. As a matter of
> fact, if you weren't sourcing, then you'd have zilch, nada, zero, empty,
> null, void, an space, a separation, an abstract
>
> Just define Kermit Muffins and it should be good to go
>
>
> \setupinitial[n=2]
>
> \def\KermitMuffins{\vbox{Kermit Muffins\par\hskip 1.3cm \tfd Meet me at
> the second line}}
>
> \setuphead[chapter][
>   after={\placeinitial},
>   page=no,
> ]
>
> \starttext
> \chapter{one}
> \KermitMuffins
>
> \chapter{two}
> \input knuth
>
> Meet me at the second line.
> \stoptext
>
>
>
> > Cheers!
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 1:30 AM Otared Kavian via ntg-context <
> > ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Adding \hfill\break to the short line solves the issue, but probably
> there
> > > is a better way to achieve the correct result.
> > >
> > > \setupinitial[n=2]
> > >
> > > \setuphead[chapter][
> > >   after={\placeinitial},
> > >   page=no,
> > > ]
> > >
> > > \starttext
> > > \chapter{one}
> > > Kermit Ruffins \hfill\break % <---
> > >
> > > Meet me at the second line.
> > >
> > > \chapter{two}
> > > \input knuth
> > >
> > > Meet me at the second line.
> > > \stoptext
> > >
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Best regards: Otared
> > >
> > > On 13 Jun 2023, at 04:43, Thangalin via ntg-context <
> ntg-context@ntg.nl>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm using KeenWrite Themes (specifically, Boschet) to typeset a chapter
> > > wherein the first letter is a lettrine. When the first paragraph is too
> > > short, the second paragraph overlaps the lettrine.
> > >
> > > % SOT
> > > \setupinitial[n=2]
> > >
> > > \setuphead[chapter][
> > >   after={\placeinitial},
> > >   page=no,
> > > ]
> > >
> > > \starttext
> > > \chapter{one}
> > > Kermit Ruffins
> > >
> > > Meet me at the second line.
> > >
> > > \chapter{two}
> > > \input knuth
> > >
> > > Meet me at the second line.
> > > \stoptext
> > > % EOT
> > >
> > > Produces: https://i.stack.imgur.com/kNDqw.png
> > >
> > > How would you instruct ConTeXt to "protect" the lettrine such that
> > > regardless of whether the first paragraph spans multiple lines, a short
> > > first paragraph will still prevent the second paragraph from
> overlapping
> > > the lettrine?
> > >
> > > That is, the setups should work in both cases, without any knowledge
> about
> > > the first paragraph length being added between \starttext and
> \stoptext.
> > >
> > > ConTeXt LMTX version: 2023.06.04 18:58
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > >
> > >
> ___
> > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to
> > > the Wiki!
> > >
> > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > > webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> > > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> > >
> > >
> ___
> > >
> > >
> > > Otared Kavian
> > > e-mail: ota...@gmail.com 
> > > Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ___
> > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to
> > > the Wiki!
> > >
> > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > > webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> > > archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> > > wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> > >
> > >
> __