Re: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
Ah, I missed the checkin message on that! Thank you! -Brian On Apr 13, 2004, at 5:20 PM, Oleg Nitz wrote: On Tuesday 13 April 2004 15:17, Brian McCallister wrote: Huh, the ODMG slower thing is interesting as Armin just reemed us all out for letting the OTM get so much slower than ODMG ;-) Have I missed something? Are there any new performance tests? Armin emailed the -dev list a few days back =) When I tested last time, OTM was somewhat faster. Of course, when you use OTM PB-style Criteria/Queries instead of ODMG-style OQLQueries, the difference would be more noticeable. But don't forget that OTM provides true ACID transactions, pessimistic and optimistic locking strategies (automatic upgrading of read lock to write lock for modified objects) and some other nice features like automatic storing of object modifications (for modified objects only), automatic creation/deletion of otm-dependent objects, long transactions support. So I guess OTM may be slower in some tests, especially when you run them against in-memory database like HSQL. but it is a little bit less than mature at the moment. It is definately in the unstable category for 1.0. Completely agree. Oleg is in the process of doing a major factoring job on parts of it to clean it up and fix a couple bugs (otm-dependent proxied collections not detecting deletes unless an explicit write lock is obtained on the parent is a particularly unpleasant one for me). The refactoring is now finished, and the bug that you mentioned is now fixed, at least according to my tests. Please re-run your tests. Many thanks to you and to all who try OTM, test OTM and report bugs! ;-) Regards, Oleg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
On Wednesday 14 April 2004 15:51, Brian McCallister wrote: Have I missed something? Are there any new performance tests? Armin emailed the -dev list a few days back =) What was the subject? Still can't find. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
Hi Oleg, try this [OTM] Massive performance decrease between Feb and Apr version http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]msgNo=6875 regards, Armin Oleg Nitz wrote: On Wednesday 14 April 2004 15:51, Brian McCallister wrote: Have I missed something? Are there any new performance tests? Armin emailed the -dev list a few days back =) What was the subject? Still can't find. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
From my experience of using both (i ended up doing an ODMG - OTM conversion!): Note that i dont any of the more complicated stuff - just storing object trees, collections, etc, and querying the database. Also i dont use locking atall (one thing odmg does better i believe). Go with OTM. ODMG uses ODMG queries (sql like queries for selecting objects). OTM use a criteria classes for querying. I find OTM to be simpler, but more code intensive. ODMG is slower - Ditching ODMG and moving to OTM speeded up our app by about 5x! Doing complex (nested to several degrees a.b.c...) in OTM works - i never got it working in ODMG. Daniel. -Original Message- From: Jean-Francois Beaulac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 April 2004 17:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG Hi , i'm a real OJB newbie and I wonder which API should I use, i searched the mailing list and read the entire documentation on the website (i didnt read the entire JavaDoc of course) but i wasn't able to find a great comparison between the two APIs. It would be very usefull to me if somebody could post the main differences between both APIs Thanks Jean-Francois Beaulac trainee programmer @ www.beetext.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
Huh, the ODMG slower thing is interesting as Armin just reemed us all out for letting the OTM get so much slower than ODMG ;-) Right now there are a couple hidden nasties in the OTM -- I like the OTM a lot (if just so that I can do a query by identity without casting to a TransactionImpl) but it is a little bit less than mature at the moment. It is definately in the unstable category for 1.0. Oleg is in the process of doing a major factoring job on parts of it to clean it up and fix a couple bugs (otm-dependent proxied collections not detecting deletes unless an explicit write lock is obtained on the parent is a particularly unpleasant one for me). I will personally still be using OTM for my development, but we just switched from OTM to ODMG for major app in development where I work because of the relative maturity of the chunks of code. I hope to switch back to OTM in the not-too-distant future (or to JDO as it is shaping up to be a very thin wrapper around the OTM, and it isn't really a bad API from the client side, don't get me started on javax.jdo.spi though ;-) Providing a facade to swap between ODMG and OTM is pretty straightforward as the OTM can handle OQL style queries. -Brian On Apr 13, 2004, at 6:46 AM, Daniel Perry wrote: From my experience of using both (i ended up doing an ODMG - OTM conversion!): Note that i dont any of the more complicated stuff - just storing object trees, collections, etc, and querying the database. Also i dont use locking atall (one thing odmg does better i believe). Go with OTM. ODMG uses ODMG queries (sql like queries for selecting objects). OTM use a criteria classes for querying. I find OTM to be simpler, but more code intensive. ODMG is slower - Ditching ODMG and moving to OTM speeded up our app by about 5x! Doing complex (nested to several degrees a.b.c...) in OTM works - i never got it working in ODMG. Daniel. -Original Message- From: Jean-Francois Beaulac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 April 2004 17:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG Hi , i'm a real OJB newbie and I wonder which API should I use, i searched the mailing list and read the entire documentation on the website (i didnt read the entire JavaDoc of course) but i wasn't able to find a great comparison between the two APIs. It would be very usefull to me if somebody could post the main differences between both APIs Thanks Jean-Francois Beaulac trainee programmer @ www.beetext.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
Sorry i was being a bit dense early morning after a very long weekend! My app has a huge amount of db activity, and 99.9% of it doesnt require locking (concurrent actions on the same objects will never happen as users only share read-only objects) So i mainly use the Persistance Broker api directly. (that was what i was refering to with regards to speed) And a little OTM when i need locking for administrative tasks. Daniel. -Original Message- From: Brian McCallister [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 April 2004 13:17 To: OJB Users List Subject: Re: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG Huh, the ODMG slower thing is interesting as Armin just reemed us all out for letting the OTM get so much slower than ODMG ;-) Right now there are a couple hidden nasties in the OTM -- I like the OTM a lot (if just so that I can do a query by identity without casting to a TransactionImpl) but it is a little bit less than mature at the moment. It is definately in the unstable category for 1.0. Oleg is in the process of doing a major factoring job on parts of it to clean it up and fix a couple bugs (otm-dependent proxied collections not detecting deletes unless an explicit write lock is obtained on the parent is a particularly unpleasant one for me). I will personally still be using OTM for my development, but we just switched from OTM to ODMG for major app in development where I work because of the relative maturity of the chunks of code. I hope to switch back to OTM in the not-too-distant future (or to JDO as it is shaping up to be a very thin wrapper around the OTM, and it isn't really a bad API from the client side, don't get me started on javax.jdo.spi though ;-) Providing a facade to swap between ODMG and OTM is pretty straightforward as the OTM can handle OQL style queries. -Brian On Apr 13, 2004, at 6:46 AM, Daniel Perry wrote: From my experience of using both (i ended up doing an ODMG - OTM conversion!): Note that i dont any of the more complicated stuff - just storing object trees, collections, etc, and querying the database. Also i dont use locking atall (one thing odmg does better i believe). Go with OTM. ODMG uses ODMG queries (sql like queries for selecting objects). OTM use a criteria classes for querying. I find OTM to be simpler, but more code intensive. ODMG is slower - Ditching ODMG and moving to OTM speeded up our app by about 5x! Doing complex (nested to several degrees a.b.c...) in OTM works - i never got it working in ODMG. Daniel. -Original Message- From: Jean-Francois Beaulac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 April 2004 17:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG Hi , i'm a real OJB newbie and I wonder which API should I use, i searched the mailing list and read the entire documentation on the website (i didnt read the entire JavaDoc of course) but i wasn't able to find a great comparison between the two APIs. It would be very usefull to me if somebody could post the main differences between both APIs Thanks Jean-Francois Beaulac trainee programmer @ www.beetext.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question : OTM or ODMG
On Tuesday 13 April 2004 15:17, Brian McCallister wrote: Huh, the ODMG slower thing is interesting as Armin just reemed us all out for letting the OTM get so much slower than ODMG ;-) Have I missed something? Are there any new performance tests? When I tested last time, OTM was somewhat faster. Of course, when you use OTM PB-style Criteria/Queries instead of ODMG-style OQLQueries, the difference would be more noticeable. But don't forget that OTM provides true ACID transactions, pessimistic and optimistic locking strategies (automatic upgrading of read lock to write lock for modified objects) and some other nice features like automatic storing of object modifications (for modified objects only), automatic creation/deletion of otm-dependent objects, long transactions support. So I guess OTM may be slower in some tests, especially when you run them against in-memory database like HSQL. but it is a little bit less than mature at the moment. It is definately in the unstable category for 1.0. Completely agree. Oleg is in the process of doing a major factoring job on parts of it to clean it up and fix a couple bugs (otm-dependent proxied collections not detecting deletes unless an explicit write lock is obtained on the parent is a particularly unpleasant one for me). The refactoring is now finished, and the bug that you mentioned is now fixed, at least according to my tests. Please re-run your tests. Many thanks to you and to all who try OTM, test OTM and report bugs! ;-) Regards, Oleg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
