[OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch)
I was just taking a second (well, actually third) look at this and the more important baby (IMAP) was thrown out with the bath water (MTA debate). On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 11:50 -0700, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 20:36 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi All, [snip] Despite all it's goodness, one, if not the, primary detractor to Open Solaris's uptake was a paucity of 3rd party packages. Postponing until IllumOS integraton would allow more time for the repository to be updated and fleshed out, thereby creating a better initial impression of fresh and up to date Open Solaris based system. If the minimal supported server now path is chosen, then I think there really needs to be some POP3/IMAP package on the list, because it's not all just about web servers. Cyrus or Dovecot would be good choices. The proposed minimal set of packages to be supported is very web server centric. Email is still a BIG component of the Internet and I believe that at least one IMAP package should be included in the supported list. And that package should be either Dovecot (simpler) or Cyrus (bigger enterprise ready and more RFC conformant). There are many people running large Cyrus ZFS installations on Solaris based systems (although many OpenSolaris may have migrated by now) so I think it might not bee too difficult if we approached the appropriate Cyrus mailing list with a request to package for OI. Probably similarly for Dovecot, as last I communicated with Timo (admittedly in early Dovecot development) he was very helpful guy. My personal preference would be for Cyrus because of the RFC feature/conformance aspect. Also, I think SSH needs to be added to the supported list. I'm sure this one was merely an oversight. Thank you and have a nice day. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch)
Hi Ken, Most of us agree that the more packages and more of a cross section the stable build has, the better. However the main issue is supporting it, it's not simply packaging, its maintaining it to a high enough standard to be considered stable, if someone can come forward and not only offer a package but be willing to look after it, follow the security alerts, package and patch it, then great. For now we have some great people supporting many packages and consolidation, but getting more into the stable list requires more people interested in helping. Bye, Deano de...@cloudpixies.com -Original Message- From: Ken Gunderson [mailto:kgund...@teamcool.net] Sent: 13 February 2011 19:14 To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch) I was just taking a second (well, actually third) look at this and the more important baby (IMAP) was thrown out with the bath water (MTA debate). On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 11:50 -0700, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 20:36 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi All, [snip] Despite all it's goodness, one, if not the, primary detractor to Open Solaris's uptake was a paucity of 3rd party packages. Postponing until IllumOS integraton would allow more time for the repository to be updated and fleshed out, thereby creating a better initial impression of fresh and up to date Open Solaris based system. If the minimal supported server now path is chosen, then I think there really needs to be some POP3/IMAP package on the list, because it's not all just about web servers. Cyrus or Dovecot would be good choices. The proposed minimal set of packages to be supported is very web server centric. Email is still a BIG component of the Internet and I believe that at least one IMAP package should be included in the supported list. And that package should be either Dovecot (simpler) or Cyrus (bigger enterprise ready and more RFC conformant). There are many people running large Cyrus ZFS installations on Solaris based systems (although many OpenSolaris may have migrated by now) so I think it might not bee too difficult if we approached the appropriate Cyrus mailing list with a request to package for OI. Probably similarly for Dovecot, as last I communicated with Timo (admittedly in early Dovecot development) he was very helpful guy. My personal preference would be for Cyrus because of the RFC feature/conformance aspect. Also, I think SSH needs to be added to the supported list. I'm sure this one was merely an oversight. Thank you and have a nice day. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch)
On Feb 13, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: I was just taking a second (well, actually third) look at this and the more important baby (IMAP) was thrown out with the bath water (MTA debate). Both Cyrus (as perhaps most scalable/enterprise grade open source IMAP server) and Dovecot (backwards compatible with existing text mailboxes) may well have their place; one of those cases where, if keeping them both well maintained isn't too burdensome, choice would be desirable. (I've run UW imapd on Solaris 9 and later; poor performance, but for personal use only, the backward compatibility was a big deal, esp. since some Usenet readers can save to a text mbox file, and one can then use a mail client to read (and maybe even thread) the saved messages.) ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch)
On Sun, 2011-02-13 at 19:58 +, Deano wrote: Hi Ken, Most of us agree that the more packages and more of a cross section the stable build has, the better. However the main issue is supporting it, it's not simply packaging, its maintaining it to a high enough standard to be considered stable, if someone can come forward and not only offer a package but be willing to look after it, follow the security alerts, package and patch it, then great. For now we have some great people supporting many packages and consolidation, but getting more into the stable list requires more people interested in helping. I understand that. Be that as it may, however, consider the perception of a potential end user who hears about OI's stable server release and takes if for a test spin, only to learn that there's not even one single, solitary supported IMAP package. Last I looked, email was #1 use of the Internet, followed by WWW. Granted it's been a couple years since I last checked, but if email is not #1 I'll wager it's close behind as #2. Hence, in m view, that seems like a huge sector to be blowing off. Especially in light of comparatively rich support on the web framework front; apache, php, java, tomcat, python, ruby, perl. As well as having other major Internet service bases covered between Bind Sendmail, and not one, but two RDBMS systems. An IMAP option is, ohmo, is an essential component server side and the lack thereof not only leaves a huge gaping hole, but also potentially paints a target for negative evaluations and reviews. I don't really speak for the OI dev community so did not feel like it was my place to solicit help from e.g. Cyrus dev community. But I suspect that if someone of a bit higher profile approached them they'd be receptive. Problem solved, no? I say Cyrus becuase I've used pretty much all of these at one time or another and in modern times the choice pretty much boils down to Cyrus or Dovecot. Dovecot is less feature complete and under more active development. Cyrus would therefore likely involve less effort on the pkg maintenance side. My $0.02. I'm just trying to help. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
