Re: [opensuse] Publisher Alternatives

[Kai Ponte]

On Thu, May 31, 2007 12:32 pm, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Thursday 31 May 2007 12:23, Kai Ponte wrote:

> Did you try flowing text in this manner from one page to another?

Yes, I tried that...

> How
> about between non-contiguous pages?

...tried that too...

> Can you mingle independent text
> lows within a given page?
>

...um...??

Listen, I'm a division manager. I am no longer technically minded and
cannot comprehend such requests.   :P


> All of these capabilities would be necessary for something such as
> magazine, journal, newspaper or sometimes even simple newsletter
> publishing.

Understood, and I imagine very doable on SUSE. I haven't really tried
Scribus but I remember some article about it in one of the Linux
magazines last year.

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher Alternatives

[Clint Tinsley]

> - Original Message -
> From: "Kai Ponte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: opensuse@opensuse.org
> Subject: [opensuse] Publisher Alternatives
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:23:09 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> 
> Just for fun, I gave myself five minutes to see if I could create a
> OOo document with two colums, which were "linked" like in Publisher.
> In other words, when I type or resize one, the words "spill" over into
> the other frame.
> 
> Sure enough, I did it in six minutes.
> 
> On a blank page, I clicked on Insert > Frame. I then resized my frame
> appropriately. I then added a whole bunch of text. I then added a
> picture as a second "column" to the page.
> 
> I then added a second frame and under the Options tab of the frame's
> properties, I saw a "Previous Link" and "Next Link"  I then linked the
> two frames and then resized the first. When I made the first frame
> smaller, the text auto-migrated over to the second frame.
> 
> I'd now say OOo does 80% of what publisher did.
> 
> I only need to see if it will do Word Art and cool borders.

Not to throw water on the fire...

You can do a lot in a word processor such as 00o to create newsletter like 
documents and picture management.  One editor who did my user group newsletter 
used WordPerfect and claimed that one reason she did was that the graphics 
quality she could get in WordPerfect was much better than in Publisher.  
However, managing her document when it came back to adding and rearranging 
things was not friendly, box tags would be on page, the contents would be on 
another, proof changes were H...  Very inefficient.  Scribus is available, 
coming of age, and I really would like to see how it holds up again PageMaker 
as a DTP and it would be really neat if I could move over my PM65 documents to 
Scribus.

Clint
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher Alternatives

[Randall R Schulz]

On Thursday 31 May 2007 12:23, Kai Ponte wrote:
> Just for fun, I gave myself five minutes to see if I could create a
> OOo document with two colums, which were "linked" like in Publisher.
> In other words, when I type or resize one, the words "spill" over
> into the other frame.
>
> Sure enough, I did it in six minutes.
>
> On a blank page, I clicked on Insert > Frame. I then resized my frame
> appropriately. I then added a whole bunch of text. I then added a
> picture as a second "column" to the page.
>
> I then added a second frame and under the Options tab of the frame's
> properties, I saw a "Previous Link" and "Next Link"  I then linked
> the two frames and then resized the first. When I made the first
> frame smaller, the text auto-migrated over to the second frame.
>
> ...

Did you try flowing text in this manner from one page to another? How 
about between non-contiguous pages? Can you mingle independent text 
flows within a given page?

All of these capabilities would be necessary for something such as 
magazine, journal, newspaper or sometimes even simple newsletter 
publishing.


Randall Schulz
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[opensuse] Publisher Alternatives

[Kai Ponte]

Just for fun, I gave myself five minutes to see if I could create a
OOo document with two colums, which were "linked" like in Publisher.
In other words, when I type or resize one, the words "spill" over into
the other frame.

Sure enough, I did it in six minutes.

On a blank page, I clicked on Insert > Frame. I then resized my frame
appropriately. I then added a whole bunch of text. I then added a
picture as a second "column" to the page.

I then added a second frame and under the Options tab of the frame's
properties, I saw a "Previous Link" and "Next Link"  I then linked the
two frames and then resized the first. When I made the first frame
smaller, the text auto-migrated over to the second frame.

I'd now say OOo does 80% of what publisher did.

I only need to see if it will do Word Art and cool borders.

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Kevin Donnelly]

On Thursday 31 May 2007 09:52, jdd wrote:
> OOo generates an html code that prints quite like OOo would print the
> page.
> You can have a little better code with starting directly an html page
> (not a text page)

It may not be too bad if you convert a finished page, but if you make 
corrections or changes, you will find that the yuckiness of the HTML 
increases exponentially :-)  You can get situations where the font of a 
heading changes, for instance, and you can't change it back - the reason is 
usually because OOo has inserted some markup of its own (the dreaded ) 
which you can't get at unless you look at the code view.  But if you have to 
do that, it's easier to use Quanta from the start.

-- 
Pob hwyl / Best wishes

Kevin Donnelly

www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg
www.klebran.org.uk - Gwirydd gramadeg rhydd i'r Gymraeg
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

Jos van Kan wrote:


OOO generates horrible html as well, so I guess the answer is yes. :-)


yes and no :-)

OOo generates an html code that prints quite like OOo would print the 
page.


You can have a little better code with starting directly an html page 
(not a text page)


some years ago OOo couldn't use mor than one table level and _change_ 
any html page it reads accordingly


The original StarOffice was a _very good_ frame editor (one could 
build frames and edit each frame in place), but this was dropped with 
OOo...


jdd

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Jos van Kan]

Carl Spitzer wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 18:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
>> Ken Jennings wrote:
>>
>>> wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.
>> what a horrible idea :-)))
>>
> 
> Cant we do that now in OOo for those not inclined to use text editors or
> Quanta?
> 
> 
OOO generates horrible html as well, so I guess the answer is yes. :-)

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

Carl Spitzer wrote:

On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 18:43 +0200, jdd wrote:

Ken Jennings wrote:


wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.

what a horrible idea :-)))



Cant we do that now in OOo for those not inclined to use text editors or
Quanta?




OOo is perfect for printing, sombody can export to html a document 
mainly done for printing. Using OOo as site generator is not a good idea.


If you want to generate a site, nowaday, without html, better install 
a CMS. A very small one is PmWiki (http://pmwiki.org)


jdd

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Kevin Donnelly]

On Thursday 31 May 2007 00:45, Pueblo Native wrote:
> While not completely disagreeing with you, I think there are a couple of
> levels between professional publisher and home user.  The most common
> one I would think of is a person who runs a small newsletter for an
> organization or club of some sort.  They don't need _all_ the features
> of an InDesign, but they would like the publication to come off a little
> more professionally.  Another group might be people that run a
> professional document, but infrequently (an annual or semi-annual
> report) and their primary business is not publishing.  I really wouldn't
> want to shell out close to a grand for a program I use very infrequently.

This is a long thread about something that seems to me to be a non-issue.  
Scribus does what you specify here, and is also intended for pro-am work 
where you hand things off to printers.  It is cross-platform, handles PDFs to 
a very high standard, and is intended to work closely with Inkscape for 
non-photo graphics.  Is there any reason why the OP, after having looked at 
it, is casting around (almost perversely, one might say) for something else?  

Scribus is very easy to use (my 13-year old found his way around it easily, 
and I can assure you I found it a lot easier than Microsoft Publisher), but 
has also been the basis for "proper" publishing work (there was a series in 
Linux Magazine last year from someone who was using it to publish a community 
newspaper in Belfast).  

So instead of spending time looking at "alternatives" which are not going to 
be as good, the OP would be better advised, IMO, to start experimenting with 
Scribus.

-- 
Pob hwyl / Best wishes

Kevin Donnelly

www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg
www.klebran.org.uk - Gwirydd gramadeg rhydd i'r Gymraeg
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Doug McGarrett]

On Wednesday 30 May 2007 19:45, Pueblo Native wrote:
> Doug McGarrett wrote:
> > Yes, I know UNIX programs are horrendously expensive, but they are such
> > because the purchasers are going to make a lot of money using them. 
> > (Does the expression "Microsoft" ring a bell?)  If you really need a
> > "real" publishing system, you are probably making money using it.  Pay
> > the tab.
>
> While not completely disagreeing with you, I think there are a couple of
> levels between professional publisher and home user.  The most common
> one I would think of is a person who runs a small newsletter for an
> organization or club of some sort.  They don't need _all_ the features
> of an InDesign, but they would like the publication to come off a little
> more professionally.  Another group might be people that run a
> professional document, but infrequently (an annual or semi-annual
> report) and their primary business is not publishing.  I really wouldn't
> want to shell out close to a grand for a program I use very infrequently.

I am the editor of a very nice little newsletter, The Pedal Steel Newsletter, 
published by the Pedal Steel Guitar Association, Inc.  It comes out 10 times 
a year, and runs 12 to 16 pages. It includes digital photographs, ads, and is 
published on a Macintosh, using M/S Word, and up to now, Pagemaker. Since 
Pagemaker is obsolete and not  supported any more, it will go to Adobe 
InDesign, which costs around $270. InDesign runs on Mac Os X version 4, which 
is BSD UNIX, I believe. (A version also runs on Windows.)  That does not mean 
it runs on Linux, of course, but it's a UNIX routine that is not at the
$1K level.  If enough Linux users asked, it might be ported.  This program 
provides copy ready for a commercial printer.  (We run about 1500 copies a 
month.)  Oh, the PSGA is not making money on the publication; it is a
dues-paying self-supporting non-profit organization.

--doug



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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Carl Spitzer]

On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 18:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
> Ken Jennings wrote:
> 
> > wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.
> 
> what a horrible idea :-)))
> 

Cant we do that now in OOo for those not inclined to use text editors or
Quanta?


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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

Doug McGarrett wrote:
> Yes, I know UNIX programs are horrendously expensive, but they are such
> because the purchasers are going to make a lot of money using them.  (Does
> the expression "Microsoft" ring a bell?)  If you really need a "real" 
> publishing system, you are probably making money using it.  Pay the tab.
>
>   
While not completely disagreeing with you, I think there are a couple of
levels between professional publisher and home user.  The most common
one I would think of is a person who runs a small newsletter for an
organization or club of some sort.  They don't need _all_ the features
of an InDesign, but they would like the publication to come off a little
more professionally.  Another group might be people that run a
professional document, but infrequently (an annual or semi-annual
report) and their primary business is not publishing.  I really wouldn't
want to shell out close to a grand for a program I use very infrequently.




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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Doug McGarrett]

On Wednesday 30 May 2007 15:56, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
> Onsdag 30 maj 2007 21:47 skrev Ken Jennings:
> > On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > > I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would
> > > depend upon circumstances.  

There have to be UNIX programs to do this.  It is impossible for there not
to be.  So buy one.  If it won't run on Linux, there are (relatively) cheap
UNIX os's out there.  I have Solaris, which I got for very little, but never
installed.

Yes, I know UNIX programs are horrendously expensive, but they are such
because the purchasers are going to make a lot of money using them.  (Does
the expression "Microsoft" ring a bell?)  If you really need a "real" 
publishing system, you are probably making money using it.  Pay the tab.

(As an aside, you probably got a free Photoshop teaser with your graphics
card.  The full program costs US$ 998.00, according to the latest B&H 
catalog from New York.)  

--doug
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Doug McGarrett]

On Wednesday 30 May 2007 12:15, Ken Jennings wrote:
> On Friday 2007-05-25 08:41, Kai Ponte wrote:
> > On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
> > > I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
> > > Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
> > > others
> > > out there that show  promise?
> >
> > AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and
> > power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other
> > day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover
> > Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows
> > alternatives here:
> >
> > http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
> >
> > It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be
> > there on occasion.
>
> (Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd
> recommend PageStream.  http://www.grasshopperllc.com
>
> Other than low-end DTP work, don't use MS Publisher for anything else.  My
> wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.  It looked
> OK, but I wondered why it took so long for the pages to load.  I looked at
> the html and discovered that when Publisher exports to HTML it generates
> horribly bloated HTML and unnecessarily converts some text boxes to
> bitmaps. I rebuilt their web site using straight HTML and the new version
> was about 1 percent of the size of the Publisher version.

This may be heresy, but why not make a little money off of M/S?  Sell them
the revised code!  Make them a reasonable offer based on the time you put in,
and they'll probably buy it.

Another thought:  Copyright all the contributions you made--_ before _
you offer it.  I'm not a lawyer, so you should check with one before 
proceeding.  


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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Verner Kjærsgaard]

Onsdag 30 maj 2007 21:47 skrev Ken Jennings:
> On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote:
> [...]
>
> > I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would
> > depend upon circumstances.  I'm sure your going to have some people
> > scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and
> > purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like
> > OpenOffice).
>
> Publisher is probably the worst part of the Microsoft Office suite.  It
> just doesn't work for reasonably serious work or for things Microsoft touts
> as the target uses of Publisher.
>
> I wrote earlier about the lame web page export from publisher.   My wife
> also designed some postcard mailers for her business using publisher. 
> Don't let those registration marks in the output fool you -- the output
> from Publisher is completely unusable at every professional bulk printing
> service we tried. Output to postscript and/or converting that to PDF does
> not improve Publisher output usability either.
>
> In the end I did her postcards in OpenOffice.  The only sticking point was
> determining exactly the page size to use. Once that was solved the OOo PDF
> files were good everywhere we tried to print them and the finished results
> were perfect.
>
> Publisher is unsuitable for anything other than the most simple DTP
> projects that you will output directly to your own printer.

Please let me add to the above (very true) statement...

MS-Publisher is a disaster in a number of ways. One of my very good friends is 
a virtual expert in MSP. He's done 1000s of hours of work in the programme, 
only to realize that NO printer will take his files. And they cannot be 
converted to anything proper without loosing contents and all.

So now, when he is so dammed good at the programme, he realizes that all his 
expertize is lost due to a clear case of vendor lock-in.

I said that to him 5 years ago. He didn't listen. The reason for not listening 
was simple, MSP is so simple to use, that it to the untrained it appears very 
attractive. Once trapped...

My advice; Linux has got Scribus and propably others too, stick to them (or 
OO) and avoid MSP at all costs. As simple as that.

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Verner Kjærsgaard
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Ken Jennings]

On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote:
[...]
> I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would
> depend upon circumstances.  I'm sure your going to have some people
> scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and
> purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like
> OpenOffice).

Publisher is probably the worst part of the Microsoft Office suite.  It just 
doesn't work for reasonably serious work or for things Microsoft touts as the 
target uses of Publisher.   

I wrote earlier about the lame web page export from publisher.   My wife also 
designed some postcard mailers for her business using publisher.  Don't let 
those registration marks in the output fool you -- the output from Publisher 
is completely unusable at every professional bulk printing service we tried.   
Output to postscript and/or converting that to PDF does not improve Publisher 
output usability either.  

In the end I did her postcards in OpenOffice.  The only sticking point was 
determining exactly the page size to use. Once that was solved the OOo PDF 
files were good everywhere we tried to print them and the finished results 
were perfect.

Publisher is unsuitable for anything other than the most simple DTP projects 
that you will output directly to your own printer.
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

Kai Ponte wrote:
> On Wed, May 30, 2007 9:15 am, Ken Jennings wrote:
>   
>> (Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go
>> I'd
>> recommend PageStream.  http://www.grasshopperllc.com
>> 
>
> Well, I downloaded it. First impressions aren't that great, but I'm
> sure it would work. It didn't easily let me wrap text in a box nor did
> it have any templates for me to start from.
>
> On top of that, it is a SDI app - yech. I can't tell you how annoying
> SDI apps are to me.
>
> All the same, if I'm needing DTP, I might buy it. It would be worth
> $99 to give Linux DTP more support.
>
>   
I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would
depend upon circumstances.  I'm sure your going to have some people
scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and
purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like
OpenOffice).  Of course, if they're looking to buy or upgrade, it would
be a whole different discussion.  I guess it depends upon why they are
moving.
>
>   

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Kai Ponte]

On Wed, May 30, 2007 9:15 am, Ken Jennings wrote:
>
> (Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go
> I'd
> recommend PageStream.  http://www.grasshopperllc.com

Well, I downloaded it. First impressions aren't that great, but I'm
sure it would work. It didn't easily let me wrap text in a box nor did
it have any templates for me to start from.

On top of that, it is a SDI app - yech. I can't tell you how annoying
SDI apps are to me.

All the same, if I'm needing DTP, I might buy it. It would be worth
$99 to give Linux DTP more support.



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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

Ken Jennings wrote:


wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.


what a horrible idea :-)))

jdd
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Ken Jennings]

On Friday 2007-05-25 08:41, Kai Ponte wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
> > I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
> > Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
> > others
> > out there that show  promise?
>
> AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and
> power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other
> day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover
> Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows
> alternatives here:
>
> http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
>
> It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be
> there on occasion.

(Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd 
recommend PageStream.  http://www.grasshopperllc.com  

Other than low-end DTP work, don't use MS Publisher for anything else.  My 
wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.  It looked 
OK, but I wondered why it took so long for the pages to load.  I looked at 
the html and discovered that when Publisher exports to HTML it generates 
horribly bloated HTML and unnecessarily converts some text boxes to bitmaps.  
I rebuilt their web site using straight HTML and the new version was about 1 
percent of the size of the Publisher version.
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Carl Spitzer]

On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 23:41 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 27 May 2007, jdd wrote:
> > Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was
> > a very good application, verye asy to use
> 
> Interesting side note:
> Publisher was the project that Melinda Gates was in charge of before
> her last name became Gates, back when she had a reason to work.
> 
> http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/11/2006/7UR5.jpg
> With his choice of women, Bill chose one who is obviously
> a better project manager than himself, having only produced
> one clunker (Microsoft Bob), and three reasonably good products
> Publisher, Encarta, and Expedia.
> 
> Bill, on the other hand stoled DOS.

Married above his born station in life.  He won't get an invitation to
the Queens dinner party that way.


-- 
Carl Spitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Republican Party

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

jdd wrote:
> G T Smith wrote:
>
>> There is bit more to it that .. DTP publishers also output marks used to
>> align copy to professional printing presses and had support for some of
>> the formats used. A volume printer is somewhat different beast to a
>> desktop laser.
>
> I don't speak of professional work, here, I never could (nor will :-)
> use xpress...
>
> make pro work with publisher??
>
> jdd
>
Maybe I should have titled this "InDesign alternatives" then.

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

jdd wrote:
>
> But on a news paper, on can see the beginning of an article on the
> front page and the following on an other page or on an other column of
> the same page
>

By the way, what you mentioned is known as a "jump".   It's not
necessarily considered the best practice.  But I get what you are saying
in regards to the text frames.
> Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was
> a very good application, verye asy to use (I used it in classroom with
> pupils), much easier than PageMaker or Ventura (you see, I'm an old
> timer :-) I do not use such progamms for at least 3 years now, so I
> don'"t know what happen

Didn't know what happened to what?  Pagemaker became InDesign.
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Hudibras]

El lun, 28-05-2007 a las 07:44 -0400, James Knott escribió:
> John Andersen wrote:
> > On Sunday 27 May 2007, jdd wrote:
> >   
> >> Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was
> >> a very good application, verye asy to use
> >> 
> >
> > Interesting side note:
> > Publisher was the project that Melinda Gates was in charge of before
> > her last name became Gates, back when she had a reason to work.
> >
> >   
> 
> Her maiden name was "Ms. Dos".  ;-)

XDDD

Your're sharp!

AOP

> 
> -- 
> Use OpenOffice.org 

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[James Knott]

John Andersen wrote:
>
> Bill, on the other hand stoled DOS.
>
>   
Not quite.  He sold it to IBM, before he bought it from Seattle Computer
Products.  Tim Paterson of SCP developed QDOS as a development system,
while waiting for CP/M-86.


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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[James Knott]

John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 27 May 2007, jdd wrote:
>   
>> Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was
>> a very good application, verye asy to use
>> 
>
> Interesting side note:
> Publisher was the project that Melinda Gates was in charge of before
> her last name became Gates, back when she had a reason to work.
>
>   

Her maiden name was "Ms. Dos".  ;-)


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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

G T Smith wrote:


There is bit more to it that .. DTP publishers also output marks used to
align copy to professional printing presses and had support for some of
the formats used. A volume printer is somewhat different beast to a
desktop laser.


I don't speak of professional work, here, I never could (nor will :-) 
use xpress...


make pro work with publisher??

jdd

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[G T Smith]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

jdd wrote:
> Pueblo Native wrote:
>> jdd wrote:
>>> think at what make these apps different. I did some years ago and
>>> found only one: the ability to have a text span several boxes
>>>
>>> and this can be achieved in OpenOffice .org.
>>>
>>> It's not obvious and I don't remember the recipe, but it can be done...
>>
>> My original idea was that the biggest difference between these products
>> was how they treated text.  In a word processor, for instance, most of
>> the time text was text.  In a DTP product, on the other hand, text is a
>> design element, just like photos and other graphics.  That was my
>> original concept, and I think that's pretty much gotten smashed.
> 
> A publisher program is able to giv a large page with différent objects
> in it, like a news paper.
> 
> Nearly any modern word processor can do so, that is have frames around a
> page with text, photos, titles, drawings...
> 
> But on a news paper, on can see the beginning of an article on the front
> page and the following on an other page or on an other column of the
> same page
> 
> OpenOffice is able to do so, thouhg not woth ease and when I tryed it
> (at least two years ago), this feature was biggy - I hope this is fixed
> now.
> 
> Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was a
> very good application, verye asy to use (I used it in classroom with
> pupils), much easier than PageMaker or Ventura (you see, I'm an old
> timer :-) I do not use such progamms for at least 3 years now, so I
> don'"t know what happen
> 
> jdd
> 
> 

There is bit more to it that .. DTP publishers also output marks used to
align copy to professional printing presses and had support for some of
the formats used. A volume printer is somewhat different beast to a
desktop laser.


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Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[John Andersen]

On Sunday 27 May 2007, jdd wrote:
> Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was
> a very good application, verye asy to use

Interesting side note:
Publisher was the project that Melinda Gates was in charge of before
her last name became Gates, back when she had a reason to work.

http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/11/2006/7UR5.jpg
With his choice of women, Bill chose one who is obviously
a better project manager than himself, having only produced
one clunker (Microsoft Bob), and three reasonably good products
Publisher, Encarta, and Expedia.

Bill, on the other hand stoled DOS.

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

Pueblo Native wrote:

jdd wrote:

think at what make these apps different. I did some years ago and
found only one: the ability to have a text span several boxes

and this can be achieved in OpenOffice .org.

It's not obvious and I don't remember the recipe, but it can be done...


My original idea was that the biggest difference between these products
was how they treated text.  In a word processor, for instance, most of
the time text was text.  In a DTP product, on the other hand, text is a
design element, just like photos and other graphics.  That was my
original concept, and I think that's pretty much gotten smashed.


A publisher program is able to giv a large page with différent objects 
in it, like a news paper.


Nearly any modern word processor can do so, that is have frames around 
a page with text, photos, titles, drawings...


But on a news paper, on can see the beginning of an article on the 
front page and the following on an other page or on an other column of 
the same page


OpenOffice is able to do so, thouhg not woth ease and when I tryed it 
(at least two years ago), this feature was biggy - I hope this is 
fixed now.


Notice than I use some old version of publiser by microsoft and it was 
a very good application, verye asy to use (I used it in classroom with 
pupils), much easier than PageMaker or Ventura (you see, I'm an old 
timer :-) I do not use such progamms for at least 3 years now, so I 
don'"t know what happen


jdd


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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Druid]

sodipodi is a program like scribus, I dont know the status of it
nowdays... their site seems a little broken and outdated
(http://www.sodipodi.com/index.php3)

also check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vector_graphics_editors


On 5/26/07, Pueblo Native <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

BandiPat wrote:
> On Thursday 24 May 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
>
>> I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
>> Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
>> others out there that show  promise?
>>
>
> ==
>
> Take a look at KWrite.  They have added several dtp features to it and
> it really shows promise.  There are still so many things missing from
> Scribus and it's still not very intuitive to use, so it's not the open
> & use type program.  If you're just needing something simple, KWrite
> may fill the void.  You can also get PageStream, if you want a full
> featured dtp program.  You can download a trial version and sadly it's
> not free, but the cost is not bad either for a mature program that it
> is.
>
>

I'll take a look at it, though with all the cross over between
traditional DTP and office software, you wonder if you can even draw
that line anymore.
What I'm looking at more is putting together a list of the office
programs (Outlook, Publisher, Frontpage) for which there is no direct
equivalent  in OpenOffice.  Being a journalism student myself, I could
see three major levels of people who may be looking for the DTP software.

Level 1:  Newsletter publisher (church, small school, etc), a one time
document that may need some touches but really doesn't need to be fine
tuned.
Level  2: Student newspaper (college/high school), maybe small town
newspaper that might be still published on the weekly or monthly basis
but still has a professional feel to it.
Level 3: Daily Newspaper and beyond (book publisher, magazine, something
that absolutely needs spot on color separation and other high level
features).
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

jdd wrote:
>
> think at what make these apps different. I did some years ago and
> found only one: the ability to have a text span several boxes
>
> and this can be achieved in OpenOffice .org.
>
> It's not obvious and I don't remember the recipe, but it can be done...

My original idea was that the biggest difference between these products
was how they treated text.  In a word processor, for instance, most of
the time text was text.  In a DTP product, on the other hand, text is a
design element, just like photos and other graphics.  That was my
original concept, and I think that's pretty much gotten smashed.
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

Pueblo Native wrote:


I'll take a look at it, though with all the cross over between
traditional DTP and office software, you wonder if you can even draw
that line anymore.


think at what make these apps different. I did some years ago and 
found only one: the ability to have a text span several boxes


and this can be achieved in OpenOffice .org.

It's not obvious and I don't remember the recipe, but it can be done...

jdd

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

BandiPat wrote:
> On Thursday 24 May 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
>   
>> I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
>> Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
>> others out there that show  promise?
>> 
>
> ==
>
> Take a look at KWrite.  They have added several dtp features to it and 
> it really shows promise.  There are still so many things missing from 
> Scribus and it's still not very intuitive to use, so it's not the open 
> & use type program.  If you're just needing something simple, KWrite 
> may fill the void.  You can also get PageStream, if you want a full 
> featured dtp program.  You can download a trial version and sadly it's 
> not free, but the cost is not bad either for a mature program that it 
> is.
>
>   

I'll take a look at it, though with all the cross over between
traditional DTP and office software, you wonder if you can even draw
that line anymore.
What I'm looking at more is putting together a list of the office
programs (Outlook, Publisher, Frontpage) for which there is no direct
equivalent  in OpenOffice.  Being a journalism student myself, I could
see three major levels of people who may be looking for the DTP software.

Level 1:  Newsletter publisher (church, small school, etc), a one time
document that may need some touches but really doesn't need to be fine
tuned.
Level  2: Student newspaper (college/high school), maybe small town
newspaper that might be still published on the weekly or monthly basis
but still has a professional feel to it.
Level 3: Daily Newspaper and beyond (book publisher, magazine, something
that absolutely needs spot on color separation and other high level
features).
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[BandiPat]

On Thursday 24 May 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
> I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
> Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
> others out there that show  promise?

==

Take a look at KWrite.  They have added several dtp features to it and 
it really shows promise.  There are still so many things missing from 
Scribus and it's still not very intuitive to use, so it's not the open 
& use type program.  If you're just needing something simple, KWrite 
may fill the void.  You can also get PageStream, if you want a full 
featured dtp program.  You can download a trial version and sadly it's 
not free, but the cost is not bad either for a mature program that it 
is.

regards,
Lee
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Kai Ponte]

On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
> I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
> Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
> others
> out there that show  promise?

AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and
power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other
day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover
Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows
alternatives here:

http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html


It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be
there on occasion.

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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[jdd]

Pueblo Native wrote:

I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any others
out there that show  promise?


openoffice draw?

jdd
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[opensuse] Publisher alternatives

[Pueblo Native]

I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any others
out there that show  promise?
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