RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
I like to open this up with a "marketing" hat vs. a "development" hat. I think you need to familiarize yourself with Orion, and look at the "official" doc, what there is of it at www.orionserver.com, plus the unofficial material at www.jollem.com and www.orionsupport.com. I actively encourage students and developers to play with Orion and jboss/tomcat (www.jboss.org). The only thing I am not sure of (and this list hasn't answered the question) is how would Orion hold up traffic wise, in say running an "e" store the size of Sears and Roebucks? Is this just a task suitable to the big guns, like WebSphere and Weblogic, or can Orion stand up in the boxing ring? I see Orion and the open source contenders making a nice niche into the low and middle company markets, but not into the fortune five hundred (at present). A big bottleneck is the support and documentation issues. If you look at the open source databases, for example (www.mysql.com and www.postgresql.org), the first h! ! ! as excellent documentation and the second is OK. Both offer excellent support services though companies and lists, but they have a hard time upsetting the big guns, such as Oracle. And you have to enlighten companies about what the little guy offers (besides price) that the big name does not. (my .02 insights) -Original Message- From: Korosh Afshar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:17 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group We are starting to venture into the orion world cautiously but steadly. would you care to share any insight on pitfals to watch for or issues to deal with or anything that might hinder our development effort if not dealt with upfront? this could be technical or non-technical issues particular to orion. any such insight from your students would do much to improve the product and for us to deal with appropriately. k. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 1:17 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: THANK YOU! My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 weeks I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: * It is free for use as a development environment. * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. * Its CPU footprint is very small. * It has a robust implementation of servlets. * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, we would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the participants paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants had prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and BEA-Weblogic. Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt more secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using a home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization (saving them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion Server, the quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had on our community would never have happened. By offering this training for free to all participants, and by training them using Orion Server, we are growing EJB specialists in Maryland who are partial to using Orion Server. This translates to experienced engineers expressing an affinity for Orion Server in the workplace over other competing technologies. I sincerely thank you and your organization for providing us this invaluable resource. Thank you, Michael L. Van CEO, JUGerNaut [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS. We are holding a graduation ceremony for this course and others on March 14, 2001. After the ceremony, we are offering open enrollment into JUGerNaut (free) and thus, to a slew of courses we will be offering (free to all participants). They are: Java Programmer Level Certification (13 - 22 weeks) Java Developer Level Certification (16 weeks) Java Architect Level Certification (depending on demand) J2ME (the vm used on embedded systems) Java Security AP
RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
I would second that request. >From: "Mike Cannon-Brookes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:52:16 +1100 > >Is there any chance of getting this course put online so that others >outside >of Maryland can benefit? It sounds like you've built something quite unique >as a tutorial that teaches people the basics of servlets, XML/XSLT, EJBs >etc? > >(I help run OrionSupport and we'd be happy to put it up / host it there) > >It would serve as a nice compliment to the jollem.com tutorials. > >-mike > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:17 PM > > To: Orion-Interest > > Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > > > > > > To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the > > Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 >weeks > > I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the > > Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each > > participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at > > home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. > > > > I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: > > * It is free for use as a development environment. > > * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. > > * Its CPU footprint is very small. > > * It has a robust implementation of servlets. > > * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. > > * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. > > > > On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for > > offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, >we > > would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the >participants > > paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants >had > > prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your > > product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and > > BEA-Weblogic. > > > > Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt >more > > secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using >a > > home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course > > produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization >(saving > > them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion > > Server, the > > quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had >on > > our community would never have happened. > > > > By offering this training for free to all participants, and by > > training them > > using Orion Server, we are growing EJB specialists in Maryland who are > > partial to using Orion Server. This translates to experienced engineers > > expressing an affinity for Orion Server in the workplace over other > > competing technologies. I sincerely thank you and your organization for > > providing us this invaluable resource. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Michael L. Van > > CEO, JUGerNaut > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > PS. We are holding a graduation ceremony for this course and others on > > March 14, 2001. After the ceremony, we are offering open enrollment >into > > JUGerNaut (free) and thus, to a slew of courses we will be > > offering (free to > > all participants). They are: > > Java Programmer Level Certification (13 - 22 weeks) > > Java Developer Level Certification (16 weeks) > > Java Architect Level Certification (depending on demand) > > J2ME (the vm used on embedded systems) > > Java Security API (14 weeks) > > All courses use peer instruction (the students use books and a syllabus >to > > guide them as they study the topics together) and all courses are free >to > > partipants. Additionally, we are rolling out a new legal-referral plan >to > > all members that will help to ensure they will never be "stiffed" on a > > contract again. Please contact me for more information. > > > > > > > _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
I look forward to previewing this wonderful course, when it is ready. -Original Message- From: Mike Cannon-Brookes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:52 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group Is there any chance of getting this course put online so that others outside of Maryland can benefit? It sounds like you've built something quite unique as a tutorial that teaches people the basics of servlets, XML/XSLT, EJBs etc? (I help run OrionSupport and we'd be happy to put it up / host it there) It would serve as a nice compliment to the jollem.com tutorials. -mike > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:17 PM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > > > To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: > > THANK YOU! > > My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the > Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 weeks > I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the > Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each > participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at > home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. > > I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: > * It is free for use as a development environment. > * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. > * Its CPU footprint is very small. > * It has a robust implementation of servlets. > * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. > * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. > > On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for > offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, we > would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the participants > paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants had > prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your > product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and > BEA-Weblogic. > > Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt more > secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using a > home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course > produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization (saving > them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion > Server, the > quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had on > our community would never have happened. > > By offering this training for free to all participants, and by > training them > using Orion Server, we are growing EJB specialists in Maryland who are > partial to using Orion Server. This translates to experienced engineers > expressing an affinity for Orion Server in the workplace over other > competing technologies. I sincerely thank you and your organization for > providing us this invaluable resource. > > Thank you, > > Michael L. Van > CEO, JUGerNaut > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > PS. We are holding a graduation ceremony for this course and others on > March 14, 2001. After the ceremony, we are offering open enrollment into > JUGerNaut (free) and thus, to a slew of courses we will be > offering (free to > all participants). They are: > Java Programmer Level Certification (13 - 22 weeks) > Java Developer Level Certification (16 weeks) > Java Architect Level Certification (depending on demand) > J2ME (the vm used on embedded systems) > Java Security API (14 weeks) > All courses use peer instruction (the students use books and a syllabus to > guide them as they study the topics together) and all courses are free to > partipants. Additionally, we are rolling out a new legal-referral plan to > all members that will help to ensure they will never be "stiffed" on a > contract again. Please contact me for more information. > > >
RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
We are starting to venture into the orion world cautiously but steadly. would you care to share any insight on pitfals to watch for or issues to deal with or anything that might hinder our development effort if not dealt with upfront? this could be technical or non-technical issues particular to orion. any such insight from your students would do much to improve the product and for us to deal with appropriately. k. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 1:17 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: THANK YOU! My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 weeks I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: * It is free for use as a development environment. * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. * Its CPU footprint is very small. * It has a robust implementation of servlets. * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, we would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the participants paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants had prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and BEA-Weblogic. Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt more secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using a home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization (saving them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion Server, the quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had on our community would never have happened. By offering this training for free to all participants, and by training them using Orion Server, we are growing EJB specialists in Maryland who are partial to using Orion Server. This translates to experienced engineers expressing an affinity for Orion Server in the workplace over other competing technologies. I sincerely thank you and your organization for providing us this invaluable resource. Thank you, Michael L. Van CEO, JUGerNaut [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS. We are holding a graduation ceremony for this course and others on March 14, 2001. After the ceremony, we are offering open enrollment into JUGerNaut (free) and thus, to a slew of courses we will be offering (free to all participants). They are: Java Programmer Level Certification (13 - 22 weeks) Java Developer Level Certification (16 weeks) Java Architect Level Certification (depending on demand) J2ME (the vm used on embedded systems) Java Security API (14 weeks) All courses use peer instruction (the students use books and a syllabus to guide them as they study the topics together) and all courses are free to partipants. Additionally, we are rolling out a new legal-referral plan to all members that will help to ensure they will never be "stiffed" on a contract again. Please contact me for more information.
Re: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
Michael, that still sounds useful in the form of a syllabus... That'd be a GREAT addition, if it was something you wanted to propagate. Even if not, a simple list of references for a given topic would be awfully handy. On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Michael Van wrote: > Mike, > > Thank you for your response. As you said, this course is unique. However, > the nature of the course is not in the printed material, rather in the > collaboration of software engineers. For example, on week 7, the subject of > servlet data-base connection pooling is introduced. However, the > participants get the suggested reading material for that subject (Wrox' > Advanced Java Server Programming, non-EJB version), and do the tutorials in > that book. For the XSL/XSLT portion (week 12), the subject and suggested > reading are introduced, but the learning happens in the assignment and > peer-discussion. > > This isn't different than any other course, but because of the reliance of > copywritten materials and in-depth peer-discussion, it wouldn't fit well > with the excellent tutorials on the Jollem site. Instead, it compliments > the existing tutorials by offering an educational roadmap in the syllabus, > and the structure of deadlines and assignments. > > Michael Van > CEO, JUGerNaut > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - Original Message - > From: Mike Cannon-Brookes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:52 AM > Subject: RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > > > > Is there any chance of getting this course put online so that others > outside > > of Maryland can benefit? It sounds like you've built something quite > unique > > as a tutorial that teaches people the basics of servlets, XML/XSLT, EJBs > > etc? > > > > (I help run OrionSupport and we'd be happy to put it up / host it there) > > > > It would serve as a nice compliment to the jollem.com tutorials. > > > > -mike > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:17 PM > > > To: Orion-Interest > > > Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > > > > > > > > > To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: > > > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > > > My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the > > > Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 > weeks > > > I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the > > > Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each > > > participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at > > > home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. > > > > > > I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: > > > * It is free for use as a development environment. > > > * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. > > > * Its CPU footprint is very small. > > > * It has a robust implementation of servlets. > > > * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. > > > * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. > > > > > > On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for > > > offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, > we > > > would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the > participants > > > paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants > had > > > prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your > > > product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and > > > BEA-Weblogic. > > > > > > Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt > more > > > secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using > a > > > home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course > > > produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization > (saving > > > them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion > > > Server, the > > > quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had > on > > > our community would never have happened. > > > > > > By offering this training for free to all participants,
Re: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
Mike, Thank you for your response. As you said, this course is unique. However, the nature of the course is not in the printed material, rather in the collaboration of software engineers. For example, on week 7, the subject of servlet data-base connection pooling is introduced. However, the participants get the suggested reading material for that subject (Wrox' Advanced Java Server Programming, non-EJB version), and do the tutorials in that book. For the XSL/XSLT portion (week 12), the subject and suggested reading are introduced, but the learning happens in the assignment and peer-discussion. This isn't different than any other course, but because of the reliance of copywritten materials and in-depth peer-discussion, it wouldn't fit well with the excellent tutorials on the Jollem site. Instead, it compliments the existing tutorials by offering an educational roadmap in the syllabus, and the structure of deadlines and assignments. Michael Van CEO, JUGerNaut [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Mike Cannon-Brookes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:52 AM Subject: RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > Is there any chance of getting this course put online so that others outside > of Maryland can benefit? It sounds like you've built something quite unique > as a tutorial that teaches people the basics of servlets, XML/XSLT, EJBs > etc? > > (I help run OrionSupport and we'd be happy to put it up / host it there) > > It would serve as a nice compliment to the jollem.com tutorials. > > -mike > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:17 PM > > To: Orion-Interest > > Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > > > > > > To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the > > Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 weeks > > I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the > > Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each > > participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at > > home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. > > > > I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: > > * It is free for use as a development environment. > > * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. > > * Its CPU footprint is very small. > > * It has a robust implementation of servlets. > > * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. > > * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. > > > > On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for > > offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, we > > would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the participants > > paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants had > > prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your > > product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and > > BEA-Weblogic. > > > > Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt more > > secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using a > > home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course > > produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization (saving > > them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion > > Server, the > > quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had on > > our community would never have happened. > > > > By offering this training for free to all participants, and by > > training them > > using Orion Server, we are growing EJB specialists in Maryland who are > > partial to using Orion Server. This translates to experienced engineers > > expressing an affinity for Orion Server in the workplace over other > > competing technologies. I sincerely thank you and your organization for > > providing us this invaluable resource. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Michael L. Van > > CEO, JUGerNaut > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > PS. We are holding a graduation ceremony for this course and others on > > March 14, 2001. After the ceremony, we are offering open enrollment into > > JUGerNaut (free) and thus, t
RE: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group
Is there any chance of getting this course put online so that others outside of Maryland can benefit? It sounds like you've built something quite unique as a tutorial that teaches people the basics of servlets, XML/XSLT, EJBs etc? (I help run OrionSupport and we'd be happy to put it up / host it there) It would serve as a nice compliment to the jollem.com tutorials. -mike > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Van > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:17 PM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: A thank you to Orion from the Annapolis Java User Group > > > To Orion and the people who offer support for this product: > > THANK YOU! > > My name is Michael Van Geertruy and I am the founder and CEO of the > Annapolis MD Java User Group, JUGerNaut (501-c-4). For the last 15 weeks > I've been teaching a course in this user group called "Java and the > Internet", using the OrionServer as a teaching platform. That is, each > participant in the course was required to download a version of Orion at > home, and then use OrionServer for thier work in the course. > > I chose Orion Server for a number of reasons. Most notably: > * It is free for use as a development environment. > * It is a TRUE implementation of the J2EE platform. > * Its CPU footprint is very small. > * It has a robust implementation of servlets. > * It has easy to understand, XML-based configuration files. > * It contains xalen and xerces, which allowed us to touch on XSLT's. > > On behalf of the JUGerNaut organization, I would like to thank you for > offering this tool for use in our development environment. Without it, we > would not have been able to offer this training for FREE (the participants > paid no money to attend the course). Indeed, many of the participants had > prior experience programming EJB's and commented on how superior your > product implements the J2EE when compared to Sybase, Oracle, and > BEA-Weblogic. > > Oral course surveys revealed that the participants in the course felt more > secure with the Java technologies of servlets, JSP's, CMP, and BMP using a > home-grown database-connection-pooling bean. Additionally, this course > produced an EJB that will be used by a local charity organization (saving > them thousands of dollars in development costs). Without Orion > Server, the > quality of training that we gave and the direct impact this program had on > our community would never have happened. > > By offering this training for free to all participants, and by > training them > using Orion Server, we are growing EJB specialists in Maryland who are > partial to using Orion Server. This translates to experienced engineers > expressing an affinity for Orion Server in the workplace over other > competing technologies. I sincerely thank you and your organization for > providing us this invaluable resource. > > Thank you, > > Michael L. Van > CEO, JUGerNaut > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > PS. We are holding a graduation ceremony for this course and others on > March 14, 2001. After the ceremony, we are offering open enrollment into > JUGerNaut (free) and thus, to a slew of courses we will be > offering (free to > all participants). They are: > Java Programmer Level Certification (13 - 22 weeks) > Java Developer Level Certification (16 weeks) > Java Architect Level Certification (depending on demand) > J2ME (the vm used on embedded systems) > Java Security API (14 weeks) > All courses use peer instruction (the students use books and a syllabus to > guide them as they study the topics together) and all courses are free to > partipants. Additionally, we are rolling out a new legal-referral plan to > all members that will help to ensure they will never be "stiffed" on a > contract again. Please contact me for more information. > > >
