Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
Come on guys, I thought it was the artist not the tool, that was responsible for making amazing sounds. Maybe since PD is free so more artists get a chance to use it? When will they come up with the PD to CSound python conversion script? On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Chuckk Hubbard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 3:19 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > On Mar 8, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Martin Peach wrote: > > > > > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > >> It would be very nice to have a "cleansound" library of dsp > > >> objects, perhaps ported from Csound. > > > > > > You can already use [csoundapi~], which comes with most csound > > > varieties, to access anything in csound from pd. > > > > > > Right, but doesn't that mean you write your instruments in Csound, > > then control them in Pd? I was thinking Pd objects using the csound > > code. > > Seems obvious, doesn't it? AFAIK it would be perfectly legal to take > the code directly. > I find [csoundapi~] very useful. I tend to think, if you want Csound, > use Csound, but as a Linux enthusiast I think it's generally better > for an option to exist than to not exist. > How the two programs are structured is a different question. I don't > know for sure, but it might take some substantial changes. Csound > uses vectors and scalars for audio and control signals, somewhat > different than block size. Then again it might translate easily, I > dunno. > Csound has a huge library, some of the more advanced stuff might be > useful too, not just oscillators. > > -Chuckk > > -- > http://www.badmuthahubbard.com > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 3:19 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 8, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Martin Peach wrote: > > > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >> It would be very nice to have a "cleansound" library of dsp > >> objects, perhaps ported from Csound. > > > > You can already use [csoundapi~], which comes with most csound > > varieties, to access anything in csound from pd. > > > Right, but doesn't that mean you write your instruments in Csound, > then control them in Pd? I was thinking Pd objects using the csound > code. Seems obvious, doesn't it? AFAIK it would be perfectly legal to take the code directly. I find [csoundapi~] very useful. I tend to think, if you want Csound, use Csound, but as a Linux enthusiast I think it's generally better for an option to exist than to not exist. How the two programs are structured is a different question. I don't know for sure, but it might take some substantial changes. Csound uses vectors and scalars for audio and control signals, somewhat different than block size. Then again it might translate easily, I dunno. Csound has a huge library, some of the more advanced stuff might be useful too, not just oscillators. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Andy Farnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You take as many sines as the system will handle, typically > a thousand or so, and sum them. All must start on exactly the > same phase. Now, if we had a series of _all_ frequencies it would > give us an impulse, but instead set the difference between each > oscillator to be 1 cycle + delta, where delta is very small, maybe > 1Hz or less. This is an interesting concept, thanks for passing it along. > Hardly very scientific, but roughly from the few chances I've had > to try it on different systems... > > Csound - the King, all bow before Csound yeah boyee -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Mar 8, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Martin Peach wrote: > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> It would be very nice to have a "cleansound" library of dsp >> objects, perhaps ported from Csound. > > You can already use [csoundapi~], which comes with most csound > varieties, to access anything in csound from pd. Right, but doesn't that mean you write your instruments in Csound, then control them in Pd? I was thinking Pd objects using the csound code. .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] also some pd-music
Hi.
I have put a recording from yesterday's performance online. Music for
, the quartertone organ from the logos foundation. It's a live
recording (and video) from the first performance. Just for those
people who are interested in the things pd is used for.
About the use of pd:
Parts of the music are controled by 2 Wii's, using my own wiimote
external. The music itself is completely programmed in pd, with some
extra externals i'll put online when I've dome some more work on them.
For example all rhythms come out of a database with things I played on
piano. PD selects the rhythms during performance according to several
rules.
The first minute of the performance is not audible on this movie. The
wii's adjust the speed of the organ's windblower, but that's a bit too
silent for my video-camera. (The audience could hear it though.)
Last remark: it's quartertone music, it's not out of tune. :-)
Find it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrcH8U2dR8
Regards,
yvan
--
if (argc > 1 && strcmp(argv[1], "-advice") == 0) { printf("Don't Panic!\n");
exit(42); }
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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > It would be very nice to have a "cleansound" library of dsp objects, > perhaps ported from Csound. > You can already use [csoundapi~], which comes with most csound varieties, to access anything in csound from pd. Martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Mar 8, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Andy Farnell wrote: > On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:08:45 -0500 > marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Frank Barknecht wrote: >>> Hallo, >>> Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: >>> Both use the same patch (the undulating diffraction effect). It's comparable because I translated the Csound version directly to Pd, both are 64 oscillator banks and it's clear that the Csound one sparkles while the Pd one sounds a bit muddy. >>> >>> Csound also is known as "CleanSound" in some circles. >> >> so why is then "pure" data not equally clean? >> marius. > > > Because it's optimised for real-time performance. > > Max/Pd strike a careful balance between for real-time capability. > The amazing sound quality of Csound comes about because it was > designed > for offline rendering, and it got realtime by dint of increased CPU > speeds. > > Like the difference between a 3D games engine and rendering a > raytracing > scene in 3DMax. > > In a way, it's not really a fair comparison at all, or at least we > could > say "what did you expect?!" It would be very nice to have a "cleansound" library of dsp objects, perhaps ported from Csound. .hc Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic. It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war on terrorism.- retired U.S. Army general, William Odom ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:08:45 -0500 marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frank Barknecht wrote: > > Hallo, > > Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > > > >> Both use the same patch (the undulating diffraction effect). It's > >> comparable because I translated the Csound version directly to Pd, both > >> are 64 oscillator banks and it's clear that the Csound one sparkles while > >> the Pd one sounds a bit muddy. > > > > Csound also is known as "CleanSound" in some circles. > > so why is then "pure" data not equally clean? > marius. Because it's optimised for real-time performance. Max/Pd strike a careful balance between for real-time capability. The amazing sound quality of Csound comes about because it was designed for offline rendering, and it got realtime by dint of increased CPU speeds. Like the difference between a 3D games engine and rendering a raytracing scene in 3DMax. In a way, it's not really a fair comparison at all, or at least we could say "what did you expect?!" > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > >> Both use the same patch (the undulating diffraction effect). It's >> comparable because I translated the Csound version directly to Pd, both >> are 64 oscillator banks and it's clear that the Csound one sparkles while >> the Pd one sounds a bit muddy. > > Csound also is known as "CleanSound" in some circles. so why is then "pure" data not equally clean? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > Both use the same patch (the undulating diffraction effect). It's > comparable because I translated the Csound version directly to Pd, both > are 64 oscillator banks and it's clear that the Csound one sparkles while > the Pd one sounds a bit muddy. Csound also is known as "CleanSound" in some circles. Ciao -- Frank ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
Yeah but mp3s always sound muddy to me... Martin Andy Farnell wrote: > > I looked for some sounds that demonstrate the difference of oscillator > accuracy. All I could find are these two snips from tracks, but it's a > fair comparison because; > > 1) "Functions of Time" (1996) An all Csound composition. > http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/FunctionsOfTime-track3.mp3 > > 2) "Look Ma, No hands!" (2005) An all Pd composition. > http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/Nohands-short.mp3 > > Both use the same patch (the undulating diffraction effect). It's > comparable because I translated the Csound version directly to Pd, both > are 64 oscillator banks and it's clear that the Csound one sparkles while > the Pd one sounds a bit muddy. > > It would be good to do a Max vs Pd comparison of the same someday. > > a. > > > On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:02:00 -0500 > marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> what I experience sometimes when I do very basic stuff like using >> phasors, is that I hear weird comb filtering of my environment after I >> put down my headphones. similar as if you look into bright light and >> then close the eyes, and you still see a review-image. >> regarding the difference between pd and max: are you talking about the >> music that people produce or are you talking about the digital signal >> process? >> m. >> >> Damian Stewart wrote: >>> hey, >>> >>> i was talking to a Portuguese musician tonight (Miguel Cardoso is his name) >>> and he was saying that he thought that Pd sounded much better than Max - a >>> fuller sound with the oscillators, he said. >>> >>> i hadn't really thought about this before, but i do know that to my ears my >>> Pd patches sound a lot richer than most Max/MSP stuff that I've heard - not >>> sure whether that's my source material or patches or whether it's at a >>> deeper architectural level than that. >>> >>> anyone have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to confirm this? reasons >>> why this might be the case? >>> >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] SIMULTAN04 Festival - Screening - Call for
> SIMULTAN04 is open for submissions of innovative works which use > technology in a > creative, ingenious way or are based on a peculiar, unusual story. > The video section is open to all video artists and not only, who can apply > with narratives, experimental video, animations, vj-ing movies and motion > graphics. This sounds very much like the "video section" is not the only section, yet I can't find any information about any other section in the call for entry, and the submission instructions seem to imply that any submitted work is some sort of video :confused: ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
I looked for some sounds that demonstrate the difference of oscillator accuracy. All I could find are these two snips from tracks, but it's a fair comparison because; 1) "Functions of Time" (1996) An all Csound composition. http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/FunctionsOfTime-track3.mp3 2) "Look Ma, No hands!" (2005) An all Pd composition. http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/Nohands-short.mp3 Both use the same patch (the undulating diffraction effect). It's comparable because I translated the Csound version directly to Pd, both are 64 oscillator banks and it's clear that the Csound one sparkles while the Pd one sounds a bit muddy. It would be good to do a Max vs Pd comparison of the same someday. a. On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:02:00 -0500 marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > what I experience sometimes when I do very basic stuff like using > phasors, is that I hear weird comb filtering of my environment after I > put down my headphones. similar as if you look into bright light and > then close the eyes, and you still see a review-image. > regarding the difference between pd and max: are you talking about the > music that people produce or are you talking about the digital signal > process? > m. > > Damian Stewart wrote: > > hey, > > > > i was talking to a Portuguese musician tonight (Miguel Cardoso is his name) > > and he was saying that he thought that Pd sounded much better than Max - a > > fuller sound with the oscillators, he said. > > > > i hadn't really thought about this before, but i do know that to my ears my > > Pd patches sound a lot richer than most Max/MSP stuff that I've heard - not > > sure whether that's my source material or patches or whether it's at a > > deeper architectural level than that. > > > > anyone have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to confirm this? reasons > > why this might be the case? > > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] SIMULTAN04 Festival - Screening - Call for entry
--- SIMULTAN04 Festival - Screening - Call for entry | www.simultan.org --- SIMULTAN04 - Video and Media Arts Festival will take place in Timisoara, Romania between May 22nd -24th 2008. Under the theme "Temporary Tactics", Simultan04 explores a conflict situation, a difficult cohabitation between the independent audio-visual works and the cultural, social and political context in which they are born. "Temporary Tactics" wishes to highlight time and space connected "speculative" situations, the practice of acting and reacting, of making and creating, in the moment and in response to the stimulus of one's immediate environment. --- SIMULTAN04 is open for submissions of innovative works which that make use of technology in a creative, ingenious way or are based on a peculiar, unusual story. The video section is open to all video artists and not only, who can apply with narratives, experimental videos, animations, vj-ing movies and motion graphics. Those interested may apply with a maximum number of 2 video works, each having a duration that must not exceed 3 minutes. Terms and conditions, technical details, application form here: http://www.simultan.org/en/2008/callforentry.htm The deadline for the submission of works and applications is April 10th, 2008 (postmark) After the event, a DVD/catalogue will be published, each of the admitted participants will receive a DVD/catalogue by the end of 2008. no application fee required! For additional information please contact: Levente Kozma email: simultan[at]simultan.org, tel: +40-740.300.806 for more details please visit www.simultan.org --- a video review of SIMULTAN03 www.youtube.com/simultanfestival www.myspace.com/simultanfestival ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pyext and pd on mac os x
Sweet! That works perfectly. Thanks, Thomas! -David On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Thomas Grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey all, > I had the chance to compile py on a 10.4 machine... the binary is in > http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/osx. I hope it works for you. > > gr~~~ > > Am 03.03.2008 um 21:04 schrieb Thomas Grill: > > > > > Am 03.03.2008 um 19:29 schrieb marius schebella: > > > >> Thomas Grill wrote: > >>> It is possible to build 10.4-compatible packages on 10.5, > > > > It _should_ be possible but i see now why it isn't. There are > > problems linking with the 10.4 SDK and i don't have enough time to > > look into how to work around the problem. > > It would be great if someone on a 10.4 system could provide a binary. > > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c
hey, As far as I know, they're a 2 different pvoc~ externals. This is long time ago namespace conflict. One is from fftease library other from bsaylor. Does anyone know the authors emails to advice them? cheers glerm 2008/3/7, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Oops, sorry, my brain was turned off... auto-pilot went astray... I > just added bsaylor/pvoc~.c to Pd-extended, it should be in the > nightly builds starting tomorrow. > > .hc > > > On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:40 PM, robcanning wrote: > > > > > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >> > >> cd pure-data/trunk/externals > >> make vbap > > hi hc, > > > > make vbap to build pvoc~? really? > >> > >> Or its included in Pd-extended. > > i'm on debian Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227 and the > > pvoc~.pd_linux isn't here > > > > i have a C file in: > > > > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/bsaylor/pvoc~.c > > > > and also > > > > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/fftease/pvoc~.c > > > > maybe i am missing something? > > > > thanks > > > > rob c > >> > >> .hc > >> > >> On Mar 7, 2008, at 6:57 AM, robcanning wrote: > >> > >>> hi, > >>> can anyone tell me how i get pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c > >>> i cant find a makefile and dont know how to write one > >>> i'm on debian testing and Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227 > >>> thanks > >>> rob c > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > >>> listinfo/pd-list > >> > >> > >> > >> - > >> --- > >> > >> I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have > >> three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for > >> their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their > >> spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > All information should be free. - the hacker ethic > > > > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mdeGranular~
> looks very interesting and would be nice to have it in pd Indeed - maybe the best way to request this would be to ask the author if he is interested in making it cross-platform using Thomas Grill's flext. I would also love to try this object! km ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Add Path problems
Thank you guys! Even if it's still a bit confusing for me to configure paths (some of them don't appear in the path although they are active ), you solved my problems. I installed yesterday "Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080307-windowsxp-i386.exe" from http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2008-03-08/, and that's great, even pmpd works properly, I just add Gem.dll because it wasn't there, and apparently it works fine.Thanks again! Delphine ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!
Am 08.03.2008 um 13:15 schrieb Matteo Sisti Sette: Linux sounds better than Windows! i have speaker cables made of pure gold. i know what i'm talking about. cheers, sven. I'm not sure whether this was serious or sarchastic. nobody will deny that. of course not. at least not here. Well.. Of course I won't deny that Linux IS better than Windows, but I am quite skeptic about the statement that it SOUNDS better. Does it, really?? In which sense? just listen to make up your mind upon it: http://tinyurl.com/34yzq5 http://tinyurl.com/se967 gr~~~ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!
> Linux sounds better than Windows! > i have speaker cables made of pure gold. > i know what i'm talking about. > cheers, > sven. I'm not sure whether this was serious or sarchastic. > > nobody will deny that. > of course not. at least not here. Well.. Of course I won't deny that Linux IS better than Windows, but I am quite skeptic about the statement that it SOUNDS better. Does it, really?? In which sense? And again (as in the case of Max vs PD), is the comparison between things people do on windows vs things people do on linux, or between the same thing played on the two platforms (e.g. the same patch in PD on windows vs on linux - and OBVIOUSLY on the same machine)? Or was the discussion about which one sounds better when PRONOUNCED? (i.e. "linux" sounds better than "windows", in which case I do agree) P.S. what about MacOS? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!
sven wrote: > i have speaker cables made of pure gold. > i know what i'm talking about. About expensive speaker cables: http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables cu Thomas -- "Prisons are needed only to provide the illusion that courts and police are effective. They're a kind of job insurance." (Leto II. in: Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune) http://thomas.dergrossebruder.org/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] iem_ambi in pd-extended 0.41
hi, [import iem_ambi] [ambi_decode3] doesn't get created iem_ambi.pd_linux doesn't exist thanks rob c /// Debian Testing Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227 compiled 07:30:28 Feb 27 2008 /// ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages
Georg Holzmann wrote: > Hallo! > >>> >>> There are also ambisonic externals from IEM and Jasch, for better >>> spatialization. > > I would not say "better" ;) - it depends ... > >> Maybe a Spatialisation with Pure-Data page would be nice - is there >> something like that out there already? a web page, academic papers, >> performance documentation, patches?? > > Last year I did a workshop on this, you can find the files here: > http://grh.mur.at/misc/PdSpatialization.tar.gz > > LG > Georg > > great stuff! thanks for sharing :) rob c ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] some pd-music, and a bit of a blah
i like it cos the sound really jumps out at you. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
