Re: [PD] pattern extraction/recognition

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Dr. Greg Wilder hat gesagt: // Dr. Greg Wilder wrote:

> Here are a few highly accomplished and respected authors on the subject. 
>   Their research is a quick google away...
> 
> Emilios Cambouropoulos
> Roger Dannenberg
> Pierre-Yves Rolland
> David Temperley

Also Robert Rowe's "Machine Musicianship" is a nice intro to this and
related topics.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] pattern extraction/recognition

[Dr. Greg Wilder]

cristiano listas wrote:
> Hi, i'm looking for a way to make a patch that recognizes musical motifs 
> from a flute player in real-time.
> 
> Maybe using ann externals to first training with the player, or with 
> some recorded material.
> 
> There is other ways to do that?

Cris,

While recent research has demonstrated solid progress, this is a _very_ 
deep subject with many remaining difficulties.  The primary issues are 
best demonstrated with a few questions:

1 - What specifically constitutes pattern similarity during the matching 
process?  Is it a rhythmic pattern?  Pitch?  Are both required for 
identification?

2 - How much (and in what ways) can the input deviate from the expected 
pattern and still be recognizable?

3 - What type of "extra" events are allowable without damaging the 
integrity of the original?  For example, if 5 consecutive "extra notes" 
were detected at the start of your motive would you want the system to 
identify it as the original, a variation, or might it be part of a 
new/different (but possibly related) idea?

Here are a few highly accomplished and respected authors on the subject. 
  Their research is a quick google away...

Emilios Cambouropoulos
Roger Dannenberg
Pierre-Yves Rolland
David Temperley

HTH,
Greg


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Re: [PD] pattern extraction/recognition

[cristiano listas]

thanks all for reply,


the best performance I ever heard using musical pattern recognition was by
> the trombone player george lewis
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lewis_(trombonist)
> he uses a max patch called voyager. I have no idea how it works, maybe you
> find some documentation online. he worked on it for several years. and it
> was extremely good.
> marius.


thanks a lot, in this
paper,George
talk about the voyager programming in the FORMULA  language, some
interesting insights, thinking buy the cd



Have begun to look Nick Collins work (bbcut), that looks to be very good
with supercollider.

Looks that legato notes are a problem with fiddle~.  Maybe  a output mix of
fiddle~ and fft~? just guessing.


I think that the length of the pattern to be recognized should be variable,
but following the "common sense" concept of motif: 3 to 10 notes.

The motif is a rythmic/melodic pattern - i will think rythm and melody
separately, but in some moment they will interact i still don't figure out
how.

Aubio semms great, i will try a binary that i found
here.

Looks like i have a lot of work to do.

Thanks
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Re: [PD] pattern extraction/recognition

[marius schebella]

the best performance I ever heard using musical pattern recognition was 
by the trombone player george lewis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lewis_(trombonist)
he uses a max patch called voyager. I have no idea how it works, maybe 
you find some documentation online. he worked on it for several years. 
and it was extremely good.
marius.

Oded Ben-Tal wrote:
>> Hi, i'm looking for a way to make a patch that recognizes musical motifs
>> from a flute player in real-time.
> 
> The first problem is how accurate you expect the pattern recognition to 
> be. I have a piece where I ask Pd to make binary descriminations on input 
> from the flute player, in real time. It works fine.
> It is simple enough to get note information from fiddle~ and write that as 
> a list or a table. The problem is that you won't get 100% of the flute 
> notes (legato notes sometime don't trigger etc.) and the notes fiddle 
> estimates are not always perfect.
> The next problem is how fast can pd process the list/table to identify 
> pattern. That will depend on the length of the patterns (of course) but 
> also the narrower the definition of what pd needs to look for the faster 
> it can match (probably).
> To create a system that works for you, you will definately need to start 
> with recordings before you have something to work with a player on.
> 
> There is a fair ammount of research on music pattern recognition out 
> there, though real-time is not a priority for most at this stage.
> 
> Oded
> 
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Re: [PD] pattern extraction/recognition

[Oded Ben-Tal]

> Hi, i'm looking for a way to make a patch that recognizes musical motifs
> from a flute player in real-time.

The first problem is how accurate you expect the pattern recognition to 
be. I have a piece where I ask Pd to make binary descriminations on input 
from the flute player, in real time. It works fine.
It is simple enough to get note information from fiddle~ and write that as 
a list or a table. The problem is that you won't get 100% of the flute 
notes (legato notes sometime don't trigger etc.) and the notes fiddle 
estimates are not always perfect.
The next problem is how fast can pd process the list/table to identify 
pattern. That will depend on the length of the patterns (of course) but 
also the narrower the definition of what pd needs to look for the faster 
it can match (probably).
To create a system that works for you, you will definately need to start 
with recordings before you have something to work with a player on.

There is a fair ammount of research on music pattern recognition out 
there, though real-time is not a priority for most at this stage.

Oded

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[PD] pattern extraction/recognition

[cristiano listas]

Hi, i'm looking for a way to make a patch that recognizes musical motifs
from a flute player in real-time.

Maybe using ann externals to first training with the player, or with some
recorded material.

There is other ways to do that?

Someone is doing something similar on Pd?

Pd is the best choice to do that work?

Sorry for many questions.
Thanks for atention.

cris
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