Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

Hi!

Each time I listen to "Russians" by Sting (lyrics here, e.g.: 
http://www.lyricattack.com/s/stinglyrics/russianslyrics.html), what is 
the difference between

"I'm saying you" smth and
"I say to you" like Sting sings?

Thanks in advance.

Boris

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Walter Gilbert]

   I may not be the best person to explain the difference, but I'll 
try.  The difference is subtle.


In "When I say to you" -- the word "to" indicates that "I" am 
communicating with "you" particularly.


In using "When I'm saying you", there's no indication that anyone in 
particular is being addressed.  For example, "Believe me when I'm saying 
nice things" -- I could simply be trying to emphasize that when I say 
nice things, I mean it -- and I could be saying nice things to anyone, 
and mean it just as much.


On the other hand, if I were to say, "Believe me when I say to you that 
you're beautiful" ... the difference is that I'm trying to emphasize a 
personal connection with you ... the person I'm actually speaking to.


I should point out that, in conversational English, you'd almost never 
hear it spoken that way by a native speaker.  Most often, people would 
say, "Believe me when I *tell* you" rather than "Believe me when I *say 
to* you", which I can only imagine being used in song lyrics or poetry 
for the purpose of phrasing and meter.


I hope that helps somewhat, and hasn't caused you even more confusion.

Best,

Walt

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Twitter 



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. 
Get it now 


On 11/3/2010 12:39 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

Hi!

Each time I listen to "Russians" by Sting (lyrics here, e.g.: 
http://www.lyricattack.com/s/stinglyrics/russianslyrics.html), what is 
the difference between

"I'm saying you" smth and
"I say to you" like Sting sings?

Thanks in advance.

Boris




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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

Thanks, Walter. I think it clears this issue completely.

Boris

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Walter Gilbert]

  You're more than welcome, Boris.

I have to admire anyone who manages to learn English as a non-native 
speaker -- or any other language, really.  :-)


-- Walt

On 11/3/2010 1:48 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

Thanks, Walter. I think it clears this issue completely.

Boris




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RE: Minor question of Englsih

[Bob W]

[...]
> I should point out that, in conversational English, you'd almost never
hear it
> spoken that way by a native speaker.  Most often, people would say,
> "Believe me when I *tell* you" rather than "Believe me when I *say
> to* you", which I can only imagine being used in song lyrics or poetry for
the
> purpose of phrasing and meter.
> 

that's a very interesting observation. The first thing I thought of when you
wrote "believe me when I tell you" was the Beatles song "Oh Darling", which
includes exactly that phrase. I Googled "when I say to you" and in the first
100 results it appears almost exclusively in lyrics, with probably the
second most common occurrence being in biblical quotes or otherwise
rhetorical styles of speech and writing. It almost never appears in
'natural' English, and where it does I wonder if the writer is a native
speaker.

So Boris, believe Walt when he says to you...

[...]
> On 11/3/2010 12:39 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Each time I listen to "Russians" by Sting (lyrics here, e.g.:
> > http://www.lyricattack.com/s/stinglyrics/russianslyrics.html), what is
> > the difference between
> > "I'm saying you" smth and
> > "I say to you" like Sting sings?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Boris



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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

On 11/3/2010 10:07 AM, Bob W wrote:

... It almost never appears in 'natural' English, and where it does I
wonder if the writer is a native speaker.

So Boris, believe Walt when he says to you...


I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose 
Sting is native enough, isn't he?


Boris


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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Steven Desjardins]

There are just too many snappy replies to this one, Boris.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> On 11/3/2010 10:07 AM, Bob W wrote:
>>
>> ... It almost never appears in 'natural' English, and where it does I
>> wonder if the writer is a native speaker.
>>
>> So Boris, believe Walt when he says to you...
>
> I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose Sting is
> native enough, isn't he?
>
> Boris
>
>
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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[John Sessoms]

From: Boris Liberman

On 11/3/2010 10:07 AM, Bob W wrote:

> ... It almost never appears in 'natural' English, and where it does I
> wonder if the writer is a native speaker.
>
> So Boris, believe Walt when he says to you...

I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose
Sting is native enough, isn't he?


If memory serves he's from Scotland. I don't know if that makes him a 
native English speaker or not.


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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:38 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
>> I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose
>> Sting is native enough, isn't he?
>
> If memory serves he's from Scotland. I don't know if that makes him a native
> English speaker or not.

I have a biography of his life prior to The Police somewhere (or I
gave it to my brother). IIRC his mother or father came from the Isle
of Man, but he was born and grew up in Wallsend, Northumberland (near
Newcastle On Tyne).

Native English speaker ... I can't judge. That's awfully close to
Scotland ... ];-)

-- 
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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[mike wilson]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:38 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:


I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose
Sting is native enough, isn't he?


If memory serves he's from Scotland. I don't know if that makes him a native
English speaker or not.



I have a biography of his life prior to The Police somewhere (or I
gave it to my brother). IIRC his mother or father came from the Isle
of Man, but he was born and grew up in Wallsend, Northumberland (near
Newcastle On Tyne).

Native English speaker ... I can't judge. That's awfully close to
Scotland ... ];-)



Wallsend is England's equivalent to RabCNesbittland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7VoFiagfs

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:16 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:38 AM, John Sessoms 
>> wrote:
>>
 I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose
 Sting is native enough, isn't he?
>>>
>>> If memory serves he's from Scotland. I don't know if that makes him a
>>> native
>>> English speaker or not.
>>
>>
>> I have a biography of his life prior to The Police somewhere (or I
>> gave it to my brother). IIRC his mother or father came from the Isle
>> of Man, but he was born and grew up in Wallsend, Northumberland (near
>> Newcastle On Tyne).
>>
>> Native English speaker ... I can't judge. That's awfully close to
>> Scotland ... ];-)
>>
>
> Wallsend is England's equivalent to RabCNesbittland.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7VoFiagfs

Maybe that *is* native English ... !
-- 
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RE: Minor question of Englsih

[John Coyle]

Hey, hold up Mike - I once worked in Wallsend, lovely people - shame about
the place!

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of mike
wilson
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:16 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Minor question of Englsih

Wallsend is England's equivalent to RabCNesbittland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7VoFiagfs

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[P. J. Alling]

Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English dialect.  
Sting certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.


On 11/3/2010 7:38 AM, John Sessoms wrote:

From: Boris Liberman

On 11/3/2010 10:07 AM, Bob W wrote:

> ... It almost never appears in 'natural' English, and where it does I
> wonder if the writer is a native speaker.
>
> So Boris, believe Walt when he says to you...

I have no reason not to. But speaking of native speakers, I suppose
Sting is native enough, isn't he?


If memory serves he's from Scotland. I don't know if that makes him a 
native English speaker or not.





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bankruptcy."
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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Jeffery Smith]

My only points of reference are Sean Connery and the Fat Bastard.

Jeffery


On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English dialect.  Sting 
> certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.
> 


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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[John Sessoms]

From: Jeffery Smith


My only points of reference are Sean Connery and the Fat Bastard.

Jeffery

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>

Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English
dialect.  Sting certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.



Don't forget Mister "Beam me up Scotty" Scott.

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Adam Maas]

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:44 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: Jeffery Smith
>>
>> My only points of reference are Sean Connery and the Fat Bastard.
>>
>> Jeffery
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>> >

 Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English
 dialect.  Sting certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.

>
> Don't forget Mister "Beam me up Scotty" Scott.
>

Who was born in Vancouver, BC, not Scotland. In fact James Doohan
isn't even Scottish by background, his parents were Irish. Doohan did
have a gift for accents though and did a fair Scots accent in Star
Trek.


-Adam

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

Is Colm Meanie Scottish? Drat, he's also Irish. It seems Irishmen have 
invaded Star Trek universe...


Boris


On 11/6/2010 5:44 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

From: Jeffery Smith


My only points of reference are Sean Connery and the Fat Bastard.

Jeffery

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>

Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English
dialect. Sting certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.



Don't forget Mister "Beam me up Scotty" Scott.




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RE: Minor question of Englsih

[Bob W]

The Scottish are all Irish really.

> Is Colm Meanie Scottish? Drat, he's also Irish. It seems Irishmen have
invaded
> Star Trek universe...
> 
> Boris
> 
> 
> On 11/6/2010 5:44 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
> > From: Jeffery Smith
> >>
> >> My only points of reference are Sean Connery and the Fat Bastard.
> >>
> >> Jeffery
> >>
> >> On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
> >> >
>  Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English
>  dialect. Sting certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.
> 
> >
> > Don't forget Mister "Beam me up Scotty" Scott.
> >
> 
> 
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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

All peoples on the Earth are brothers. And sisters.

Boris

On 11/7/2010 10:58 AM, Bob W wrote:

The Scottish are all Irish really.


Is Colm Meanie Scottish? Drat, he's also Irish. It seems Irishmen have

invaded

Star Trek universe...

Boris


On 11/6/2010 5:44 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

From: Jeffery Smith


My only points of reference are Sean Connery and the Fat Bastard.

Jeffery

On Nov 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:



Scottish, no matter how much the Scots deny it, is an English
dialect. Sting certianly didn't grow up speaking Gaelic.



Don't forget Mister "Beam me up Scotty" Scott.




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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[eckinator]

2010/11/7 Boris Liberman :
>
> All peoples on the Earth are brothers. And sisters.

I am NOT your sister!!! Get that outta yer rotten mind!!!

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Cotty]

On 7/11/10, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Is Colm Meanie Scottish? Drat, he's also Irish. It seems Irishmen have
>invaded Star Trek universe...

James Doohan who played Scotty was Canadian ;-)

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RE: Minor question of Englsih

[Bob W]

> On 7/11/10, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> >Is Colm Meanie Scottish? Drat, he's also Irish. It seems Irishmen have
> >invaded Star Trek universe...
> 
> James Doohan who played Scotty was Canadian ;-)
> 

Canadians and New Zealanders are all Scottish.

Apart from the Albanian ones.

B


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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[eckinator]

2010/11/7 Bob W :
>
> Canadians and New Zealanders are all Scottish.
>
> Apart from the Albanian ones.

anyone have the lyrics of Spitting Image's Albanian anthem by any chance?

It went something like Albania / much less repressive than Romania /
much easier to spell than Bophuthatsvania / ...

Thanks
Ecke

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[eckinator]

found part of it from a source that attributes it to a 1982 Alexei Sayle single:

"Albania! Albania!
Not nearly as repressive as Roumania
Easier to spell than Boueftsgwachgznia
And if we don't win any games
The secret police will confiscate our dentures
The secret police will take away our extra meat ration
The secret police will shout at our slippers...""

ring a bell anyone?

2010/11/7 eckinator :
> 2010/11/7 Bob W :
>>
>> Canadians and New Zealanders are all Scottish.
>>
>> Apart from the Albanian ones.
>
> anyone have the lyrics of Spitting Image's Albanian anthem by any chance?
>
> It went something like Albania / much less repressive than Romania /
> much easier to spell than Bophuthatsvania / ...
>
> Thanks
> Ecke
>

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

On 11/7/2010 11:32 AM, eckinator wrote:

2010/11/7 Boris Liberman:


All peoples on the Earth are brothers. And sisters.


I am NOT your sister!!! Get that outta yer rotten mind!!!



ROTFLMAO.



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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

Albania or Elbonia?

Boris

On 11/7/2010 12:39 PM, eckinator wrote:

found part of it from a source that attributes it to a 1982 Alexei Sayle single:

"Albania! Albania!
Not nearly as repressive as Roumania
Easier to spell than Boueftsgwachgznia
And if we don't win any games
The secret police will confiscate our dentures
The secret police will take away our extra meat ration
The secret police will shout at our slippers...""

ring a bell anyone?

2010/11/7 eckinator:

2010/11/7 Bob W:


Canadians and New Zealanders are all Scottish.

Apart from the Albanian ones.


anyone have the lyrics of Spitting Image's Albanian anthem by any chance?

It went something like Albania / much less repressive than Romania /
much easier to spell than Bophuthatsvania / ...

Thanks
Ecke






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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Steven Desjardins]

I'm an American playing an American.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> Albania or Elbonia?
>
> Boris
>
> On 11/7/2010 12:39 PM, eckinator wrote:
>>
>> found part of it from a source that attributes it to a 1982 Alexei Sayle
>> single:
>>
>> "Albania! Albania!
>> Not nearly as repressive as Roumania
>> Easier to spell than Boueftsgwachgznia
>> And if we don't win any games
>> The secret police will confiscate our dentures
>> The secret police will take away our extra meat ration
>> The secret police will shout at our slippers...""
>>
>> ring a bell anyone?
>>
>> 2010/11/7 eckinator:
>>>
>>> 2010/11/7 Bob W:

 Canadians and New Zealanders are all Scottish.

 Apart from the Albanian ones.
>>>
>>> anyone have the lyrics of Spitting Image's Albanian anthem by any chance?
>>>
>>> It went something like Albania / much less repressive than Romania /
>>> much easier to spell than Bophuthatsvania / ...
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Ecke
>>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Adam Maas]

I think Bob W was commenting on one of history's more interesting
jokes. At some time not too long after the fall of the Roman Empire,
the Scots and the Irish switched places. Scotland is actually named
after the Irish, who were known as the Scotti to the Romans.

-Adam

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:30 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> All peoples on the Earth are brothers. And sisters.
>
> Boris
>
> On 11/7/2010 10:58 AM, Bob W wrote:
>>
>> The Scottish are all Irish really.
>>

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[Boris Liberman]

That I did not know. Thanks.

On 11/7/2010 4:09 PM, Adam Maas wrote:

I think Bob W was commenting on one of history's more interesting
jokes. At some time not too long after the fall of the Roman Empire,
the Scots and the Irish switched places. Scotland is actually named
after the Irish, who were known as the Scotti to the Romans.

-Adam

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:30 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:

All peoples on the Earth are brothers. And sisters.

Boris

On 11/7/2010 10:58 AM, Bob W wrote:


The Scottish are all Irish really.






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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[P. J. Alling]

On 11/7/2010 4:32 AM, eckinator wrote:

2010/11/7 Boris Liberman:

All peoples on the Earth are brothers. And sisters.

I am NOT your sister!!! Get that outta yer rotten mind!!!


Does that you won't be wearing the wimple  then?

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Re: Minor question of Englsih

[eckinator]

2010/11/7 P. J. Alling :
>>
> Does that you won't be wearing the wimple  then?

if it is rainproof and made by Kata...

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