Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

The technique doesn't work with the post-raw-conversion RGB composite tools, 
only in the raw conversion plug-in. 

Doing overall input sharpening is generally better performed on the raw data as 
there is more overhead and more data to work with then. The RGB tools are best 
used for creative and output sharpening. 

G

On Nov 21, 2013, at 6:16 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

> Thanks Godfrey. I've been sharpening in PS after conversion but I'll give 
> this a try.
> 
> Paul via phone
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The 
>>> alt key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
>>> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
>> 
>> Paul, 
>> 
>> It works the same in Lightroom as it does in the Camera Raw plugin. I'm 
>> running PS CS 5.1 with Camera Raw 6.7, but I'm sure it's the same with later 
>> versions.
>> 
>> You go to the Detail panel in Camera Raw, hold the Option key down, and 
>> click on any of the Amount, Radius, Detail, or Masking sliders. Keeping the 
>> Option key held down, slide the slider around. You'll see the effect of the 
>> adjustment against a high-pass filtered gray backdrop. If you lift off the 
>> Option key, the view returns to normal, then you can press it again (mouse 
>> button still down on the slider) to return to the high-pass filtered view. 


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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Paul Stenquist]

Thanks Godfrey. I've been sharpening in PS after conversion but I'll give this 
a try.

Paul via phone

> On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:10 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> 
>> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The 
>> alt key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
>> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
> 
> Paul, 
> 
> It works the same in Lightroom as it does in the Camera Raw plugin. I'm 
> running PS CS 5.1 with Camera Raw 6.7, but I'm sure it's the same with later 
> versions.
> 
> You go to the Detail panel in Camera Raw, hold the Option key down, and click 
> on any of the Amount, Radius, Detail, or Masking sliders. Keeping the Option 
> key held down, slide the slider around. You'll see the effect of the 
> adjustment against a high-pass filtered gray backdrop. If you lift off the 
> Option key, the view returns to normal, then you can press it again (mouse 
> button still down on the slider) to return to the high-pass filtered view. 
> 
> G
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Nov 21, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The alt 
> key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.

Paul, 

It works the same in Lightroom as it does in the Camera Raw plugin. I'm running 
PS CS 5.1 with Camera Raw 6.7, but I'm sure it's the same with later versions.

You go to the Detail panel in Camera Raw, hold the Option key down, and click 
on any of the Amount, Radius, Detail, or Masking sliders. Keeping the Option 
key held down, slide the slider around. You'll see the effect of the adjustment 
against a high-pass filtered gray backdrop. If you lift off the Option key, the 
view returns to normal, then you can press it again (mouse button still down on 
the slider) to return to the high-pass filtered view. 

G



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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[steve harley]

on 2013-11-21 17:56 Paul Stenquist wrote

Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that I 
guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment.


there was specific practical info, even a "calculator", in my prior link

Bruce Fraser's books, particularly Real World Scanning and Halftones, have been 
considered best quality by prepress folks, but i haven't kept up with that 
world so they may have been surpassed



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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Paul Stenquist]

That's about what I did with the k-5, sometimes 1.5 for hard edge subjects like 
cars. Using much less with k-3. More like 0.5 at 40 percent.

Paul via phone

> On Nov 21, 2013, at 8:17 PM, David Parsons  wrote:
> 
> Other than trying it out, not that I know of.  I usually left it at
> 1.1-1.3 for most sharpening when I was using PS.
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>> Thanks David. So is there a way to see the radius change in PhotoShop?
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 7:59 PM, David Parsons  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pressing the Alt key is a Lightroom thing.  It works differently in 
>>> Photoshop.
>>> 
 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  
 wrote:
 Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that 
 I guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment.
 
 I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The 
 alt key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind 
 of change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
 
 Best,
 Paul
> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:53 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> 
> and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[David Parsons]

Other than trying it out, not that I know of.  I usually left it at
1.1-1.3 for most sharpening when I was using PS.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Thanks David. So is there a way to see the radius change in PhotoShop?
>
> Paul
>
> On Nov 21, 2013, at 7:59 PM, David Parsons  wrote:
>
>> Pressing the Alt key is a Lightroom thing.  It works differently in 
>> Photoshop.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>>> Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that 
>>> I guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment.
>>>
>>> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The 
>>> alt key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
>>> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Paul
>>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:53 PM, steve harley  wrote:
>>>
 and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:

 


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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Paul Stenquist]

Thanks David. So is there a way to see the radius change in PhotoShop?

Paul

On Nov 21, 2013, at 7:59 PM, David Parsons  wrote:

> Pressing the Alt key is a Lightroom thing.  It works differently in Photoshop.
> 
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
>> Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that I 
>> guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment.
>> 
>> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The 
>> alt key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
>> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Paul
>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:53 PM, steve harley  wrote:
>> 
>>> and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Bruce Walker]

Paul, it's a Lightroom feature.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that I 
> guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment.
>
> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The alt 
> key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
>
> Best,
> Paul
> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:53 PM, steve harley  wrote:
>
>> and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[David Parsons]

Pressing the Alt key is a Lightroom thing.  It works differently in Photoshop.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that I 
> guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment.
>
> I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The alt 
> key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of 
> change in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.
>
> Best,
> Paul
> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:53 PM, steve harley  wrote:
>
>> and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Paul Stenquist]

Some nice theory here but no practical info. Have to buy the book for that I 
guess. Not that it wouldn't be a good investment. 

I can't get that radius adjustment mask to work on my Mac. Any clues? The alt 
key would seem to e option or command, but neither produces any kind of change 
in radius adjustment on either Smart Sharpen or Unsharp Mask.

Best,
Paul
On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:53 PM, steve harley  wrote:

> and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[steve harley]

and here it is in the words of the great Bruce Fraser:




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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[steve harley]

on 2013-11-18 16:40 Igor Roshchin wrote

I thought I would ask the gurus of digital processing here on PDML about
this first. When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?


the principle is to sharpen the details you actually want to output

these days i usually do it seat of the pants — since i rarely print i simply 
zoom to the screen size i have in mind and work from there by eye; if i later 
export the image at a different size, i redo the sharpening


for print, in my prepress days, we would first resample the image to the 
intended output (at a ppi double the halftone lpi), then it would still be a 
judgment call based on the image; here is a decent article that expands on that 
concept with some specific recommendations for print vs. screen






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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Igor Roshchin]

Many thanks to all who responded!
Both the hint (Alt-) and the links are very helpful.

Igor


> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:40:50 -0500 (EST)
> From: Igor Roshchin 
>
>
>
> I thought I would ask the gurus of digital processing here on PDML about
> this first. When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?
>
> Yes, I read in the guides this:
> "Radius: Controls the size of the edges you wish to enhance, where a
> smaller radius enhances smaller-scale detail. You'll usually want a
> radius setting that is comparable to the size of the smallest detail
> within your image."
>
> But how do you practically determine that, say in LR? You cannot tell
> the difference if it is 0.9 or 1.1 pixels.
>
> Also, several years ago, I remember seeing an advice somewhere (possibly
> here), where a person used 0.9 or 0.8 value for that radius. But I never
> understood why. Any idea?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Igor
>

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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Paul Stenquist]

I generally use only smart sharpen these days, unless I have a near miss 
situation, in which case I'll uise some unsharp mask. With the K-5, I set smart 
sharpen to about 65% with a radius of about 1.4, less for portraits. I've found 
that K-3 pics don't usually require any sharpening.  Sometimes 50% with a 
radius of 1.0.

Paul
On Nov 19, 2013, at 1:30 AM, "Ken Waller"  wrote:

> For initial sharpening, after conversion from DNG, I use the following - 
> Amout of sharpening 350%, Radius - 0.3, Threshold - 0 levels
> 
> Before printing -  Amount of sharpening 350%, Radius 0.7, Threshold 3 levels. 
> I adjust threshold downward to eliminate fringing.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Igor Roshchin" 
> Subject: Sharpening Radius?
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I thought I would ask the gurus of digital processing here on PDML about
>> this first. When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?
>> 
>> Yes, I read in the guides this:
>> "Radius: Controls the size of the edges you wish to enhance, where a
>> smaller radius enhances smaller-scale detail. You'll usually want a
>> radius setting that is comparable to the size of the smallest detail
>> within your image."
>> 
>> But how do you practically determine that, say in LR? You cannot tell
>> the difference if it is 0.9 or 1.1 pixels.
>> 
>> Also, several years ago, I remember seeing an advice somewhere (possibly
>> here), where a person used 0.9 or 0.8 value for that radius. But I never
>> understood why. Any idea?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Igor
> 
> 
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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Attila Boros]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Igor Roshchin  wrote:

> I thought I would ask the gurus of digital processing here on PDML about
> this first. When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1951754&seqNum=4

It really depends on what you have in the photo, grass will require a
smaller radius, a coffee cup a higher one. Hold down the Alt key as
others said and eyeball it.

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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Ken Waller]

For initial sharpening, after conversion from DNG, I use the following - 
Amout of sharpening 350%, Radius - 0.3, Threshold - 0 levels


Before printing -  Amount of sharpening 350%, Radius 0.7, Threshold 3 
levels. I adjust threshold downward to eliminate fringing.


HTH

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Igor Roshchin" 

Subject: Sharpening Radius?





I thought I would ask the gurus of digital processing here on PDML about
this first. When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?

Yes, I read in the guides this:
"Radius: Controls the size of the edges you wish to enhance, where a
smaller radius enhances smaller-scale detail. You'll usually want a
radius setting that is comparable to the size of the smallest detail
within your image."

But how do you practically determine that, say in LR? You cannot tell
the difference if it is 0.9 or 1.1 pixels.

Also, several years ago, I remember seeing an advice somewhere (possibly
here), where a person used 0.9 or 0.8 value for that radius. But I never
understood why. Any idea?

Thanks,

Igor



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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I used .7 to .9 as a standard with my Pentax photos, it seemed to suit the AA 
filter in the DS and K10D bodies well, and worked well with the 'average 
detailing' of the subjects I was shooting. With some of the more recent cameras 
and my current lenses, with very light to no AA filter, I am often finding I 
don't use any sharpening at all. 

Press the Option (Alt) key when clicking on the radius adjustment and you'll 
see the effect on the photo as you slide the control from minimum to maximum. 
That's how I came up with the setting. 

G


On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Igor Roshchin  wrote:

> … When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?
> 
> Yes, I read in the guides this:
> "Radius: Controls the size of the edges you wish to enhance, where a
> smaller radius enhances smaller-scale detail. You'll usually want a
> radius setting that is comparable to the size of the smallest detail
> within your image."
> 
> But how do you practically determine that, say in LR? You cannot tell
> the difference if it is 0.9 or 1.1 pixels.
> 
> Also, several years ago, I remember seeing an advice somewhere (possibly
> here), where a person used 0.9 or 0.8 value for that radius. But I never
> understood why. Any idea?


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Re: Sharpening Radius?

[David Parsons]

Press and hold the Alt key while adjusting the Radius.  It will show a
high-pass looking overlay that shows the edges in the picture.  As you
slide the slider, the overlay will show you the effect of the changes.

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Igor Roshchin  wrote:
>
>
> I thought I would ask the gurus of digital processing here on PDML about
> this first. When you sharpen images, how do you choose the "Radius"?
>
> Yes, I read in the guides this:
> "Radius: Controls the size of the edges you wish to enhance, where a
> smaller radius enhances smaller-scale detail. You'll usually want a
> radius setting that is comparable to the size of the smallest detail
> within your image."
>
> But how do you practically determine that, say in LR? You cannot tell
> the difference if it is 0.9 or 1.1 pixels.
>
> Also, several years ago, I remember seeing an advice somewhere (possibly
> here), where a person used 0.9 or 0.8 value for that radius. But I never
> understood why. Any idea?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Igor
>
>
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