Re: RFC 231 (v1) Data: Multi-dimensional arrays/hashes and slices

2000-09-26 Thread Ilya Zakharevich

On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 06:30:22PM -0400, Karl Glazebrook wrote:
  Well, this shows that you entirely miss the problem of cryptocontexts.
  Context is determined by the "environment" of the operation, not by
  the operation.  Context is propagated:
  
the-left-hand-side-of-assignment --- the-right-hand-side-of-assignment
 
 
 so what is wrong with the statement '@y = 3*@x;' then ?

That other constructs *also* create an array context, in which the
behaviour of multiplication you propose is not appropriate.

  Changing Perl in this respect will make one particular mode of
  operation a tiny bit simpler, but (without major changes to
  cryptocontexting - PLUG see for example my interview on perl.com
  /PLUG) will make life much harder in other modes of operation.

 I think major changes are what we aree talking about here.

I did not see any viable proposal on changing things in a major way.
To design such a change is a *major* work.  We need to keep a lot of
possible combinations with other features in mind, and understand all
the ramifications and desired/undesired interaction.  We need
insight.  We need to balance the tradeoffs.

I do not think we made *any* step in the correct direction yet.

  Remember: do you do your system mainainance in Mathematica?  Why?
  Remember that Wolfram *wanted* you to do this?  Perl5 is much better
  balanced.  You are pulling the blanket to your side of the bed.
 
 I am not sure what point you are trying to make about Mathematica? I
 have read intevrviews with Woldfram ,he is clearky an egomanica and
 thinks everything should be an expression, but I am not sure he
 was arguing for system management in Mathematica.

I did not mean interviews.  10 years ago I read the manual.  It was
clearly there.

Ilya



Re: RFC 204 (v2) Arrays: Use list reference for multidimensional array access

2000-09-26 Thread Bart Lateur

On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:26:38 -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote:

 I agree with both of you. It would be nice if @$ precedence worked as Bart
 specified, but I still think that arrays should be arrays.

The problem is that

   $name = "myarray";
   @$name = (1,2,3);
   print @$name[0,1];  # 1,2

Is very consistent currently. Change one and you have to change the
precedence and parsing of all symbolic refs.

You are suggesting to keep a weird precedence rule, just to ease
symbolic dereferencing!?! That's... obscene.

-- 
Bart.