Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
*bad link in last post http://luvit.io/ -Joseph Moniz On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Joseph Moniz wrote: > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, German Geek wrote: >> Maybe stupid question, but is node.php really necessary? If you can program >> PHP and it performs better than node.js, why would you need to have another >> wrapper around things. Why not just program "normal" PHP? > > This is normal PHP in the same sense that node.js is normal > javascript, python-tornado is normal python and ruby-event-machine is > normal ruby. The only difference as stated by micheal was the async > IO. > > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Michael Save > wrote: >> Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Daniel Brown wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 21:33, Michael Save >> wrote: >>> Because "normal" PHP is not asynchronous. >>> >>> Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. >> >> Your doubts are indeed well-grounded. Using node.js (indeed, >> V8-based apps in general) are compiled as native machine code, which >> don't require the added overhead of a parser, such as PHP. > > This has been an on the side just for fun project for me mostly and as > such i originally had the same performance assumptions as stated in > this thread. Basically i was writing this "to get familar with php > internals and to understand what goes into designing such a system". > > You can imagine my surprise when i ran bench marks against the example > server against an equivelant node.js http server and the node.php > implementation was able to respond to twice as many requests per > second (14k req/s) then node.js could (7k req/s). Though i would take > this with a grain of salt as the benchmark is largely unfair seeing > how node.js is much more feature complete and hardend from production > use. Never the less, i was absolutely shocked that this completely > unoptomized and memory leaky node.php implementation i hacked together > in one night was able to run circles around node.js in naive > benchmarks. > > So i was absolutely confused to the performance boost with php so i > started poking around asking people in various freenode channels if > they had any hypothesis on why node.php was able to perform against > node.js. > > I stumbled across a similar project to create a node.lua > implemantation called luvit ( http://www.luvit.io ) and it also > boasted the same exact performance boost vs node.js, thats is luvit > was able to do 2x the requests as node.js in the same amount of time. > > From my exploration on nodes 1/2x performance vs node.php and luvit > (node.lua) it turns out that V8 is fast only when it has to stay in JS > mode. The problem with node like systems is the JS to native code > boundary must be crossed several times to perform IO. So nodejs-core > get's some of it's best performance boosts from reducing the amount of > times JS has to call out to C++. The unfortunate detail is that > node.js like systems get their "power" from doing lots of IO and every > IO operation has to call out to C/C++ so node.js performance really > drags around this gotcha in V8. > > I hold out some hope for native PHP performance tough. If some one > were to invest the time into making a solid JIT based interpreter for > PHP i'm fairly confident based on language characteristics and the > performance characteristics associated with them that a PHP-JIT > implementation would be able to leave V8 in the dust. Mostly due to > explicit lexical scoping in PHP that would offset the Hidden-Class > overhead of V8. > > In terms of PHP-JITs Facebook has already done some initial work on > such a VM, they call it, not surprisingly, hip-hop-virtual-machine ( > http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150415177928920 ) and it > already doing almost no optimizations is closer to performance of > compiled PHP via hiphop then it is to interpreted PHP via the de facto > interpreter. > > - Joseph Moniz > > > > With that >> said, compiling PHP (such as with HopHop) would give at least >> comparable performance results. >> >> Still, all in all, I would never discourage someone doing a >> 'node.php' application. While its performance may not be quite as >> good speed-wise, that doesn't mean it can't become more robust, more >> generally-applicable, or even just find niche uses. I've written >> numerous socket servers in PHP for a variety of clients and uses, >> where they made sense (speed of deployment, ease of code-management by >> a number of developers who don't know C, et cetera). I can easily see >> where this could add value. >> >> -- >> >> Network Infrastructure Manager >> http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, German Geek wrote: > Maybe stupid question, but is node.php really necessary? If you can program > PHP and it performs better than node.js, why would you need to have another > wrapper around things. Why not just program "normal" PHP? This is normal PHP in the same sense that node.js is normal javascript, python-tornado is normal python and ruby-event-machine is normal ruby. The only difference as stated by micheal was the async IO. On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Michael Save wrote: > Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Daniel Brown wrote: > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 21:33, Michael Save > wrote: >> Because "normal" PHP is not asynchronous. >> >> Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. > > Your doubts are indeed well-grounded. Using node.js (indeed, > V8-based apps in general) are compiled as native machine code, which > don't require the added overhead of a parser, such as PHP. This has been an on the side just for fun project for me mostly and as such i originally had the same performance assumptions as stated in this thread. Basically i was writing this "to get familar with php internals and to understand what goes into designing such a system". You can imagine my surprise when i ran bench marks against the example server against an equivelant node.js http server and the node.php implementation was able to respond to twice as many requests per second (14k req/s) then node.js could (7k req/s). Though i would take this with a grain of salt as the benchmark is largely unfair seeing how node.js is much more feature complete and hardend from production use. Never the less, i was absolutely shocked that this completely unoptomized and memory leaky node.php implementation i hacked together in one night was able to run circles around node.js in naive benchmarks. So i was absolutely confused to the performance boost with php so i started poking around asking people in various freenode channels if they had any hypothesis on why node.php was able to perform against node.js. I stumbled across a similar project to create a node.lua implemantation called luvit ( http://www.luvit.io ) and it also boasted the same exact performance boost vs node.js, thats is luvit was able to do 2x the requests as node.js in the same amount of time. >From my exploration on nodes 1/2x performance vs node.php and luvit (node.lua) it turns out that V8 is fast only when it has to stay in JS mode. The problem with node like systems is the JS to native code boundary must be crossed several times to perform IO. So nodejs-core get's some of it's best performance boosts from reducing the amount of times JS has to call out to C++. The unfortunate detail is that node.js like systems get their "power" from doing lots of IO and every IO operation has to call out to C/C++ so node.js performance really drags around this gotcha in V8. I hold out some hope for native PHP performance tough. If some one were to invest the time into making a solid JIT based interpreter for PHP i'm fairly confident based on language characteristics and the performance characteristics associated with them that a PHP-JIT implementation would be able to leave V8 in the dust. Mostly due to explicit lexical scoping in PHP that would offset the Hidden-Class overhead of V8. In terms of PHP-JITs Facebook has already done some initial work on such a VM, they call it, not surprisingly, hip-hop-virtual-machine ( http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150415177928920 ) and it already doing almost no optimizations is closer to performance of compiled PHP via hiphop then it is to interpreted PHP via the de facto interpreter. - Joseph Moniz With that > said, compiling PHP (such as with HopHop) would give at least > comparable performance results. > > Still, all in all, I would never discourage someone doing a > 'node.php' application. While its performance may not be quite as > good speed-wise, that doesn't mean it can't become more robust, more > generally-applicable, or even just find niche uses. I've written > numerous socket servers in PHP for a variety of clients and uses, > where they made sense (speed of deployment, ease of code-management by > a number of developers who don't know C, et cetera). I can easily see > where this could add value. > > -- > > Network Infrastructure Manager > http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 21:33, Michael Save wrote: > Because "normal" PHP is not asynchronous. > > Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. Your doubts are indeed well-grounded. Using node.js (indeed, V8-based apps in general) are compiled as native machine code, which don't require the added overhead of a parser, such as PHP. With that said, compiling PHP (such as with HopHop) would give at least comparable performance results. Still, all in all, I would never discourage someone doing a 'node.php' application. While its performance may not be quite as good speed-wise, that doesn't mean it can't become more robust, more generally-applicable, or even just find niche uses. I've written numerous socket servers in PHP for a variety of clients and uses, where they made sense (speed of deployment, ease of code-management by a number of developers who don't know C, et cetera). I can easily see where this could add value. -- Network Infrastructure Manager http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
Because "normal" PHP is not asynchronous.
Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP.
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 11:56 AM, German Geek wrote:
> Maybe stupid question, but is node.php really necessary? If you can program
> PHP and it performs better than node.js, why would you need to have another
> wrapper around things. Why not just program "normal" PHP?
>
> twitter: geekdenz
> Blog: http://www.thheuer.com
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Hiyarli Baba wrote:
>>
>> As like Micheal's said said just keep up alive the project
>> I was preferes node.js to pho only when i needed send millions of ssl
>> api requests.
>> nodejs sends 1k https request in onky 2 second including parsing
>> required elements from database , check the returned source write to
>> file
>>
>> if you want develope / clone more modules for that please start from
>> http|s.req :p and let me coninue at php
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/a/9199961 my nodejs + php thing
>>
>> 2012/3/22, Michael Save :
>> > Very nice!
>> >
>> > I'll have a proper look at this in the morning, and I'll try it out
>> > for myself. Looking forward to seeing more development on this.
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Moniz
>> > wrote:
>> >> Hey,
>> >>
>> >> So i had my first Hackathon at work last week and my project was to
>> >> prototype making a node.js clone using PHP instead of V8. So i
>> >> snatched up libuv and joyent's HTTP parser and set off on a 24 hour
>> >> coding spree to get something workable. By the time the sun was coming
>> >> out the next morning the following code was working.
>> >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> $http = new node_http();
>> >>
>> >> $http->listen(8080, function($request, $response) {
>> >> $response->end("yay, super awesome response");
>> >> });
>> >>
>> >> nodephp_run();
>> >>
>> >> ?>
>> >>
>> >> The C code that powers it was whipped together really fast and is kind
>> >> of hackish as a result. The code has some memory leaks that i haven't
>> >> had time to fully track down yet. Some small portions of the code were
>> >> borrowed from the phode project.
>> >>
>> >> In a naive benchmark on this simple server VS an equally simple server
>> >> in node.js this implementation already out performs node.js in
>> >> throughput by being able to serve just under 200% the amount of
>> >> requests per second that node.js could. Take that with a grain of salt
>> >> though because node.js has much more feature and is much more hardend
>> >> from production use. I do believe the PHP binary will have some major
>> >> performance gains over V8 as crossing the PHP <--> C barrier seems to
>> >> be a much lighter operation then crossing the V8 <--> C++ barrier.
>> >>
>> >> Any help or feedback will be greatly appreciated. The projects source
>> >> code can be found here: https://github.com/JosephMoniz/node.php
>> >>
>> >> - Joseph Moniz
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
Maybe stupid question, but is node.php really necessary? If you can program
PHP and it performs better than node.js, why would you need to have another
wrapper around things. Why not just program "normal" PHP?
twitter: geekdenz
Blog: http://www.thheuer.com
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Hiyarli Baba wrote:
> As like Micheal's said said just keep up alive the project
> I was preferes node.js to pho only when i needed send millions of ssl
> api requests.
> nodejs sends 1k https request in onky 2 second including parsing
> required elements from database , check the returned source write to
> file
>
> if you want develope / clone more modules for that please start from
> http|s.req :p and let me coninue at php
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/a/9199961 my nodejs + php thing
>
> 2012/3/22, Michael Save :
> > Very nice!
> >
> > I'll have a proper look at this in the morning, and I'll try it out
> > for myself. Looking forward to seeing more development on this.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Moniz
> > wrote:
> >> Hey,
> >>
> >> So i had my first Hackathon at work last week and my project was to
> >> prototype making a node.js clone using PHP instead of V8. So i
> >> snatched up libuv and joyent's HTTP parser and set off on a 24 hour
> >> coding spree to get something workable. By the time the sun was coming
> >> out the next morning the following code was working.
> >>
> >> >>
> >>$http = new node_http();
> >>
> >>$http->listen(8080, function($request, $response) {
> >>$response->end("yay, super awesome response");
> >>});
> >>
> >>nodephp_run();
> >>
> >>?>
> >>
> >> The C code that powers it was whipped together really fast and is kind
> >> of hackish as a result. The code has some memory leaks that i haven't
> >> had time to fully track down yet. Some small portions of the code were
> >> borrowed from the phode project.
> >>
> >> In a naive benchmark on this simple server VS an equally simple server
> >> in node.js this implementation already out performs node.js in
> >> throughput by being able to serve just under 200% the amount of
> >> requests per second that node.js could. Take that with a grain of salt
> >> though because node.js has much more feature and is much more hardend
> >> from production use. I do believe the PHP binary will have some major
> >> performance gains over V8 as crossing the PHP <--> C barrier seems to
> >> be a much lighter operation then crossing the V8 <--> C++ barrier.
> >>
> >> Any help or feedback will be greatly appreciated. The projects source
> >> code can be found here: https://github.com/JosephMoniz/node.php
> >>
> >> - Joseph Moniz
> >>
> >> --
> >> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >>
> >
> > --
> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
> >
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
As like Micheal's said said just keep up alive the project
I was preferes node.js to pho only when i needed send millions of ssl
api requests.
nodejs sends 1k https request in onky 2 second including parsing
required elements from database , check the returned source write to
file
if you want develope / clone more modules for that please start from
http|s.req :p and let me coninue at php
http://stackoverflow.com/a/9199961 my nodejs + php thing
2012/3/22, Michael Save :
> Very nice!
>
> I'll have a proper look at this in the morning, and I'll try it out
> for myself. Looking forward to seeing more development on this.
>
> Michael
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Moniz
> wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> So i had my first Hackathon at work last week and my project was to
>> prototype making a node.js clone using PHP instead of V8. So i
>> snatched up libuv and joyent's HTTP parser and set off on a 24 hour
>> coding spree to get something workable. By the time the sun was coming
>> out the next morning the following code was working.
>>
>>>
>>$http = new node_http();
>>
>>$http->listen(8080, function($request, $response) {
>>$response->end("yay, super awesome response");
>>});
>>
>>nodephp_run();
>>
>>?>
>>
>> The C code that powers it was whipped together really fast and is kind
>> of hackish as a result. The code has some memory leaks that i haven't
>> had time to fully track down yet. Some small portions of the code were
>> borrowed from the phode project.
>>
>> In a naive benchmark on this simple server VS an equally simple server
>> in node.js this implementation already out performs node.js in
>> throughput by being able to serve just under 200% the amount of
>> requests per second that node.js could. Take that with a grain of salt
>> though because node.js has much more feature and is much more hardend
>> from production use. I do believe the PHP binary will have some major
>> performance gains over V8 as crossing the PHP <--> C barrier seems to
>> be a much lighter operation then crossing the V8 <--> C++ barrier.
>>
>> Any help or feedback will be greatly appreciated. The projects source
>> code can be found here: https://github.com/JosephMoniz/node.php
>>
>> - Joseph Moniz
>>
>> --
>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Node.PHP
Very nice!
I'll have a proper look at this in the morning, and I'll try it out
for myself. Looking forward to seeing more development on this.
Michael
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Moniz wrote:
> Hey,
>
> So i had my first Hackathon at work last week and my project was to
> prototype making a node.js clone using PHP instead of V8. So i
> snatched up libuv and joyent's HTTP parser and set off on a 24 hour
> coding spree to get something workable. By the time the sun was coming
> out the next morning the following code was working.
>
>
> $http = new node_http();
>
> $http->listen(8080, function($request, $response) {
> $response->end("yay, super awesome response");
> });
>
> nodephp_run();
>
> ?>
>
> The C code that powers it was whipped together really fast and is kind
> of hackish as a result. The code has some memory leaks that i haven't
> had time to fully track down yet. Some small portions of the code were
> borrowed from the phode project.
>
> In a naive benchmark on this simple server VS an equally simple server
> in node.js this implementation already out performs node.js in
> throughput by being able to serve just under 200% the amount of
> requests per second that node.js could. Take that with a grain of salt
> though because node.js has much more feature and is much more hardend
> from production use. I do believe the PHP binary will have some major
> performance gains over V8 as crossing the PHP <--> C barrier seems to
> be a much lighter operation then crossing the V8 <--> C++ barrier.
>
> Any help or feedback will be greatly appreciated. The projects source
> code can be found here: https://github.com/JosephMoniz/node.php
>
> - Joseph Moniz
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
--
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