RE: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project
gee & I thought my 20x24 was large format photographyI bow to the masters. 8o) Great Job...CongratulationsI can't wait to see it. andy -Original Message- From: pinhole-discussion-admin@p at ??? [mailto:pinhole-discussion-admin@p at ???]On Behalf Of Guy Glorieux Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 11:08 PM To: pinhole List Subject: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project Jeff, You have not missed any postings on the subject. It's jsust that I've been quite busy since April 28, working on this project and other priorities, and I have not had much time to report. In a nutshell, it's worked beyond our expectations. We have a 12 1/2 feet wide by 8 1/2 feet high pinhole image of incredible beauty, probably one of the largest ever made in modern pinhole history. Thanks to the support of Wyndham Montreal, we were able to have a 10th floor room for the WPPD weekend facing one of the most impressive landscape of Montreal, right in the centre of the cultural area. We started setting up our equipment in the room early Saturday afternoon and worked to make the room completely light tight. By midnight we had everything pretty well completed, all we had to do was to lower the 3 strips of 50" by 8 1/2 feet photographic paper (kindly supplied by Ilford Imaging Canada as a full roll of 100 feet) down the frame we had built and open the shutter, to officially start our WPPD2 experiment. We chose a 40" focal length to get as wide angle as possible on the landscape (the image covers from Place Ville Marie to Place des Arts, with the Mount Royal in the background, for anyone familiar with Montreal). We did a bit of a "backswing" with the frame to extend coverage of the landscape on the side of Place Ville Marie. There was some question over what diameter pinhole to use. The optimal would have been 1.34 mm giving us F/755, much to small given the overcast weather expected for April 28. In the end, I chose 1.8mm diameter, giving us F/564. This is only a few minutes exposure even on paper on a bright sunny day, but under overcast conditions and with reciprocity playing its trick, I knew that this would be relatively safe. In the end, a snow storm forced us to close the shutter around 12:45 on Sunday, earlier than we had anticipated, in order to avoid a white out of the image. While the tests strips we had placed on the extremities of the frame suggested then that we might be underexposed, the centre, by that time was quite over exposed. I guess we had forgotten that we would experience very heavy vignetting with such a short focal length (further compounded by reciprocity failure at the extremities). By Monday morning we were all packed up and leaving the hotel to move on to the next stage: the processing of the paper negative. Given the facilities we were using, we couldn't get started until late evening and we also had to build handmade processing tanks (5 x10 feet) from 2x4 lumber and heavy gauge plastic. We used 100 litters of developer and fix (way too much in retrospect) to fill the trays and unrolled each strip of 50" x 8 1/2 feet into the trays, one after the other, out into a quick stop bath and then into the fix. The negatives were then washed thoroughly and installed back to dry on same the wood frame we had used for exposure at the hotel. The result was just astounding. Imagine a 12 1/2 feet by 8 1/2 feet negative image with incredible details in every areas of the image (you can count the number of chairs on a hidden roof top sundeck of the Museum of Contemporary Arts and see pretty well inside the buildings closeby, enough to count how many chairs there are around the desks or worktables). Every details of the architecture landscape are clearly visible in the image but strangely distorted in some areas of the image through wide angle expansion and in other areas through telephoto compression. Because of the length of the time exposure (a little over 12 hrs), the whole city looks unnaturally empty from the constant agitation surrounding this area as if it had been deserted from all its inhabitants after a major disaster. Only the buildings, the trees, the sign and lamp posts and the cars parked on the street are visible with incredible details. Very daunting. The next stage for us is to do a contact print of the paper negative into a positive image. This is the trickiest part and we are still working on tests strips. We need to illuminate an area 12.5 x 8.5 feet, and there is about 7 stops density difference between the centre of the image (closest to the pinhole) and the edges. At this stage, we are working with a single lamp projector 15 feet above the print and centred just above the zone of heaviest density. I let you imagine the fun of changing contrast filtration between each tests...! The goal is to avoid having to do any burning and dodging by carefully configuring the way the light spreads over the image and to make 11x14 tests strip
Re: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project
Hello Guy, Yes, in NDG. Have you had any space offered, the BELGO building (Douglas Gallery are looking for stuff) on St. Catherine and Bleury, VOX, the photo ass., now that they are installed in BONSECOURS Market??? How about the lobby of the Wyndam Hotel? I walk by there quite frequently so I can imagine what the view is like from the tenth floor facing the mountain. Bogdan Bogdan Guy Glorieux wrote: > > First, my sincere apologies to the list for the multiple postings. > Something when wrong in my system and I just didn't realize I was > inundating the list with several identical messages. > > Bogdan, > It is still too early to say when this print will be shown. It could be > as early as late June or as late as this fall, depending on our ability > to find proper gallery space. I would hope that we can be "invited" to > exhibit, rather than to have to rent a gallery for the occasion. Of > that if we need to rent, because the schedules for 2002 are already > booked, then that we can find a grant to fund the cost. There is also > the question of designing a frame that will fit the "spirit" of the > images. It need to reinforce the strength of the image, without being > distracting. I hope I can work with a creative artist on that side. > I will keep the list posted when things are firmed up. > Cheers, > P.S. Are you located in Montreal? > > Jeff, > In the end, photography is a combination of creativity and problem > solving. Thanks to the fact that the protographic process is a > scientific process, you can develop creative solutions that are drawn > from applying the rigorous scientific framework of image creation on > light sensitive material... > As I posted earlier, Larry Fratkin's Pinhole calculator on the web and > Guillerme's data on reciprocity for paper were invaluable help in this > project. Thanks to them again. > Cheers, > Guy > > P.S. One only rises as high as standing on the shoulders of those who > inspire you. Ilan Wolf and Robert Mann are truly the mentors behind all > this work while Zernike's Great Wall of China project and the WPPD2 > where the events that triggered me into doing this project. > Should I say that this all came together in a matter of about a month, > from the first idea of doing a giant pinhole to the opening of the > shutter? Some projects perk in the back of one's mind unconsciously for > a long time before they materialize into a very short time frame... > I hope that projects of these kinds serve as an inspiration to others, > to go beyond what they think they are capable of doing and to explore > what they think they would never be able to do... > > - Original Message - > From: "Bogdan Karasek" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 11:18 PM > Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera > Project > > > Hello Guy, > > > > Do you have any idea yet where and when in Montreal the print > > will be exhibited. I would like to see it "au naturel". > > > > Regards, > > Bogdan > > > > Guy Glorieux wrote: > > > > > > > I may have missed an update... > > > > How did the Canadian Hotel room pinhole picture > > > > and the "Great Wall" pinhole projects turn out? > > > > > > > > -Jeff > > > > > > No Jeff, you didn't miss any postings on the Wyndham Montreal Hotel > > > Giant Pinhole picture... I've been quite busy since April 28, > working > > > on this project and other priorities, and I have not had much time > to > > > report. > > > > > > In a nutshell, it's worked beyond our expectations. We have a 12 > 1/2 > > > feet wide by 8 1/2 feet high pinhole image of incredible beauty, > > > probably one of the largest ever made in modern pinhole history. > > > > > > Thanks to the support of Wyndham Montreal, we were able to have a > 10th > > > floor room for the WPPD weekend facing one of the most impressive > > > landscape of Montreal, right in the centre of the cultural area. We > > > started setting up our equipment in the room early Saturday > afternoon > > > and worked to make the room completely light tight. By midnight we > had > > > everything pretty well completed, all we had to do was to lower the > 3 > > > strips of 50" by 8 1/2 feet photographic paper (kindly supplied by > > > Ilford Imaging Canada as a full roll of 100 feet) down the frame we > had > > > built and open the shutter, to officially start our WPPD2 > experiment. > > > > >
Re: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project
First, my sincere apologies to the list for the multiple postings. Something when wrong in my system and I just didn't realize I was inundating the list with several identical messages. Bogdan, It is still too early to say when this print will be shown. It could be as early as late June or as late as this fall, depending on our ability to find proper gallery space. I would hope that we can be "invited" to exhibit, rather than to have to rent a gallery for the occasion. Of that if we need to rent, because the schedules for 2002 are already booked, then that we can find a grant to fund the cost. There is also the question of designing a frame that will fit the "spirit" of the images. It need to reinforce the strength of the image, without being distracting. I hope I can work with a creative artist on that side. I will keep the list posted when things are firmed up. Cheers, P.S. Are you located in Montreal? Jeff, In the end, photography is a combination of creativity and problem solving. Thanks to the fact that the protographic process is a scientific process, you can develop creative solutions that are drawn from applying the rigorous scientific framework of image creation on light sensitive material... As I posted earlier, Larry Fratkin's Pinhole calculator on the web and Guillerme's data on reciprocity for paper were invaluable help in this project. Thanks to them again. Cheers, Guy P.S. One only rises as high as standing on the shoulders of those who inspire you. Ilan Wolf and Robert Mann are truly the mentors behind all this work while Zernike's Great Wall of China project and the WPPD2 where the events that triggered me into doing this project. Should I say that this all came together in a matter of about a month, from the first idea of doing a giant pinhole to the opening of the shutter? Some projects perk in the back of one's mind unconsciously for a long time before they materialize into a very short time frame... I hope that projects of these kinds serve as an inspiration to others, to go beyond what they think they are capable of doing and to explore what they think they would never be able to do... - Original Message - From: "Bogdan Karasek" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project > Hello Guy, > > Do you have any idea yet where and when in Montreal the print > will be exhibited. I would like to see it "au naturel". > > Regards, > Bogdan > > Guy Glorieux wrote: > > > > > I may have missed an update... > > > How did the Canadian Hotel room pinhole picture > > > and the "Great Wall" pinhole projects turn out? > > > > > > -Jeff > > > > No Jeff, you didn't miss any postings on the Wyndham Montreal Hotel > > Giant Pinhole picture... I've been quite busy since April 28, working > > on this project and other priorities, and I have not had much time to > > report. > > > > In a nutshell, it's worked beyond our expectations. We have a 12 1/2 > > feet wide by 8 1/2 feet high pinhole image of incredible beauty, > > probably one of the largest ever made in modern pinhole history. > > > > Thanks to the support of Wyndham Montreal, we were able to have a 10th > > floor room for the WPPD weekend facing one of the most impressive > > landscape of Montreal, right in the centre of the cultural area. We > > started setting up our equipment in the room early Saturday afternoon > > and worked to make the room completely light tight. By midnight we had > > everything pretty well completed, all we had to do was to lower the 3 > > strips of 50" by 8 1/2 feet photographic paper (kindly supplied by > > Ilford Imaging Canada as a full roll of 100 feet) down the frame we had > > built and open the shutter, to officially start our WPPD2 experiment. > > > > We chose a 40" focal length to get as wide angle as possible on the > > landscape (the image covers from Place Ville Marie to Place des Arts, > > with the Mount Royal in the background, for anyone familiar with > > Montreal). We did a bit of a "backswing" with the frame to extend > > coverage of the landscape on the side of Place Ville Marie. > > > > There was some question over what diameter pinhole to use. The optimal > > would have been 1.34 mm giving us F/755, much to small given the > > overcast weather expected for April 28. In the end, I chose 1.8mm > > diameter, giving us F/564. This is only a few minutes exposure even on > > paper on a bright sunny day, but under overcast conditions and with > > reciprocity playing its trick, I knew that this would be relatively > >
Re: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project
On Wednesday 15 May 2002 02:55 am, Guy Glorieux wrote: > No Jeff, you didn't miss any postings on the Wyndham Montreal Hotel > Giant Pinhole picture... I've been quite busy since April 28, working > on this project and other priorities, and I have not had much time to > report. Wow! Fantastic! Thanks for updating us! Thanks for posting the picture and the report. I am fascinated by the technical difficulties, and solutions, that you encountered pulling this off! The 7 stops of vignetting would have been something I don't think I would have calculated!!
Re: [pinhole-discussion] The Wyndham Montreal Pinhole Camera Project
Hello Guy, Do you have any idea yet where and when in Montreal the print will be exhibited. I would like to see it "au naturel". Regards, Bogdan Guy Glorieux wrote: > > > I may have missed an update... > > How did the Canadian Hotel room pinhole picture > > and the "Great Wall" pinhole projects turn out? > > > > -Jeff > > No Jeff, you didn't miss any postings on the Wyndham Montreal Hotel > Giant Pinhole picture... I've been quite busy since April 28, working > on this project and other priorities, and I have not had much time to > report. > > In a nutshell, it's worked beyond our expectations. We have a 12 1/2 > feet wide by 8 1/2 feet high pinhole image of incredible beauty, > probably one of the largest ever made in modern pinhole history. > > Thanks to the support of Wyndham Montreal, we were able to have a 10th > floor room for the WPPD weekend facing one of the most impressive > landscape of Montreal, right in the centre of the cultural area. We > started setting up our equipment in the room early Saturday afternoon > and worked to make the room completely light tight. By midnight we had > everything pretty well completed, all we had to do was to lower the 3 > strips of 50" by 8 1/2 feet photographic paper (kindly supplied by > Ilford Imaging Canada as a full roll of 100 feet) down the frame we had > built and open the shutter, to officially start our WPPD2 experiment. > > We chose a 40" focal length to get as wide angle as possible on the > landscape (the image covers from Place Ville Marie to Place des Arts, > with the Mount Royal in the background, for anyone familiar with > Montreal). We did a bit of a "backswing" with the frame to extend > coverage of the landscape on the side of Place Ville Marie. > > There was some question over what diameter pinhole to use. The optimal > would have been 1.34 mm giving us F/755, much to small given the > overcast weather expected for April 28. In the end, I chose 1.8mm > diameter, giving us F/564. This is only a few minutes exposure even on > paper on a bright sunny day, but under overcast conditions and with > reciprocity playing its trick, I knew that this would be relatively > safe. > > In the end, a snow storm forced us to close the shutter around 12:45 on > Sunday, earlier than we had anticipated, in order to avoid a white out > of the image. While the tests strips we had placed on the extremities > of the frame suggested then that we might be underexposed, the centre, > by that time was quite over exposed. I guess we had forgotten that we > would experience very heavy vignetting with such a short focal length > (further compounded by reciprocity failure at the extremities). > > By Monday morning we were all packed up and leaving the hotel to move on > to the next stage: the processing of the paper negative. Given the > facilities we were using, we couldn't get started until late evening and > we also had to build handmade processing tanks (5 x10 feet) from 2x4 > lumber and heavy gauge plastic. We used 100 litters of developer and > fix (way too much in retrospect) to fill the trays and unrolled each > strip of 50" x 8 1/2 feet into the trays, one after the other, out into > a quick stop bath and then into the fix. The negatives were then washed > thoroughly and installed back to dry on same the wood frame we had used > for exposure at the hotel. > > The result was just astounding. Imagine a 12 1/2 feet by 8 1/2 feet > negative image with incredible details in every areas of the image (you > can count the number of chairs on a hidden roof top sundeck of the > Museum of Contemporary Arts and see pretty well inside the buildings > closeby, enough to count how many chairs there are around the desks or > worktables). Every details of the architecture landscape are clearly > visible in the image but strangely distorted in some areas of the image > through wide angle expansion and in other areas through telephoto > compression. > > Because of the length of the time exposure (a little over 12 hrs), the > whole city looks unnaturally empty from the constant agitation > surrounding this area as if it had been deserted from all its > inhabitants after a major disaster. Only the buildings, the trees, the > sign and lamp posts and the cars parked on the street are visible with > incredible details. Very daunting. > > The next stage for us is to do a contact print of the paper negative > into a positive image. This is the trickiest part and we are still > working on tests strips. We need to illuminate an area 12.5 x 8.5 feet, > and there is about 7 stops density difference between the centre of the > image (closest to the pinhole) and the edges. At this stage, we are > working with a single lamp projector 15 feet above the print and centred > just above the zone of heaviest density. I let you imagine the fun of > changing contrast filtration between each tests...! The goal is to > avoid having to do any burning and dodging by care
