Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
maaf carla, saya tak berbagi pesimisme dengan anda dalam memandang manusia. manusia tidak bergelimang dan lekat dengan dosa (kebodohan), justeru dia berpotensi menjadi mahluk Tuhan yang terbaik di atas muka bumi. saya tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) amerika. sekarang sudah ada tanda-tanda rezim bush akan bangkrut. mereka sudah kalah di kongres dan kandidatnya dalam pemilihan presiden terkena isu suap dari mafia. rezim neo-konservatif pro-industri pencemar lingkungan yang tak mau meneken protokol kyoto itu akan segera berakhir. bahkan sebagian tokoh republik, mis gubernur kalifornia arnold schwartzeneger, sekarang terang-terangan mendukung agenda demokrasi, kemanusiaan dan kelestarian lingkungan yang biasa diusung kaum demokrat. saya juga tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) indonesia. semakin banyak cendekiawan muda yang berpandangan maju. bila bisa bebas dari korupsi, indonesia akan jadi bangsa maju dan demokrat terbesar dari kalangan dunia islam. saran saya, jangan terlalu melihat kelompok militan yang sebetulnya kecil tapi suaranya keras. jangan sampai melihat bayangan harimau, padahal di balik lampu cuma ada seekor kucing. At 10:54 PM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: dear pak Nugroho, actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me). the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of them. bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 ) said: Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers). i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view to reality? As Bertrand Russell once said, The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Elsewhere he said, Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science ideas do not change simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the facts cant speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day (Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes. History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it may be thrown back for centuries. It is a lie to think that truth will automatically triumph over lies or that goodness will eventually win over evil on its own. This is a sweet lie that has no bases on reality and it serves to no purpose other than to lull us into inaction. Truth does not win unless someone promotes it and goodness will not triumph unless someone advances it. Who will advance the truth? The orthodoxy will not tolerate innovative ideas that defy its paradigm. The pioneers ( liberal muslim) are often outsiders. They are mavericks and heretics, rejected by the orthodoxy in this case the wahhabism as the orthodox. Not all learning is knowledge. Most people have learned a lot, but they know little. They are scholars, but not scouts. regarding wahhabism, why more muslim follows this kinda teaching (not voice of reason n their compassion, like all liberal muslim) ? this fact is defies logic. What actually is happening is that they feel threatened. Their faith is challenged, and as the result, they hide deeper in their shell. They will not venture out, until that shell is completely broken and it can no longer provide protection (this related to ur posting Rendah diri kaum wahhabi). so to achieve that goal, we must pound on it with truth until it is smashed into pieces. Erick
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
dear pak Nugroho, realism..sir, not pessimism. i have high hopes for humanity. man re never created to be evil. but when man stop to heard their voice of reason n stop to feel compassion. the evil begins. anyway, as long as man chose to use their voice of reason n compassion. i think our civilization will survive. as for ur comment on US, likewise i never loose my confidence on american ppl. america's great history of humanity and liberty has been in hundred of years. american ppl survive many wars from WW2, korean war, the tragic lost of vietnam war and the most tragic was civil war. the war within american ppl. the war where brothers killing brothers for the sake of humanity. yet humanity won. american ppl won. so i never loose faith on american. their country is the last fortress and beacon of liberty in this world. GWB after 9/11 have all support and anonymous vote from both party, even all american supported him. but as years passed his popularity has dropped to lowest level. many american ppl dont support him anymore. u know why it's happenned? bcs it's america. we cant force american ppl to think the way we want, bcs they will argue with u, they will ask many questions. they will critize ur policy. they will investigate. in US no one is above the law. thats democracy. i think we have to learn from american. bcs they re dare to know n dare to ask. it's the voice of reason. peace Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: maaf carla, saya tak berbagi pesimisme dengan anda dalam memandang manusia. manusia tidak bergelimang dan lekat dengan dosa (kebodohan), justeru dia berpotensi menjadi mahluk Tuhan yang terbaik di atas muka bumi. saya tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) amerika. sekarang sudah ada tanda-tanda rezim bush akan bangkrut. mereka sudah kalah di kongres dan kandidatnya dalam pemilihan presiden terkena isu suap dari mafia. rezim neo-konservatif pro-industri pencemar lingkungan yang tak mau meneken protokol kyoto itu akan segera berakhir. bahkan sebagian tokoh republik, mis gubernur kalifornia arnold schwartzeneger, sekarang terang-terangan mendukung agenda demokrasi, kemanusiaan dan kelestarian lingkungan yang biasa diusung kaum demokrat. saya juga tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) indonesia. semakin banyak cendekiawan muda yang berpandangan maju. bila bisa bebas dari korupsi, indonesia akan jadi bangsa maju dan demokrat terbesar dari kalangan dunia islam. saran saya, jangan terlalu melihat kelompok militan yang sebetulnya kecil tapi suaranya keras. jangan sampai melihat bayangan harimau, padahal di balik lampu cuma ada seekor kucing. At 10:54 PM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: dear pak Nugroho, actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me). the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of them. bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 ) said: Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers). i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view to reality? As Bertrand Russell once said, The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Elsewhere he said, Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science ideas do not change simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the facts cant speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day (Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
OMG, your English sucks!!! Bahasa Indonesia aje deh! carla annamarie kneefel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear pak Nugroho, realism..sir, not pessimism. i have high hopes for humanity. man re never created to be evil. but when man stop to heard their voice of reason n stop to feel compassion. the evil begins. anyway, as long as man chose to use their voice of reason n compassion. i think our civilization will survive. as for ur comment on US, likewise i never loose my confidence on american ppl. america's great history of humanity and liberty has been in hundred of years. american ppl survive many wars from WW2, korean war, the tragic lost of vietnam war and the most tragic was civil war. the war within american ppl. the war where brothers killing brothers for the sake of humanity. yet humanity won. american ppl won. so i never loose faith on american. their country is the last fortress and beacon of liberty in this world. GWB after 9/11 have all support and anonymous vote from both party, even all american supported him. but as years passed his popularity has dropped to lowest level. many american ppl dont support him anymore. u know why it's happenned? bcs it's america. we cant force american ppl to think the way we want, bcs they will argue with u, they will ask many questions. they will critize ur policy. they will investigate. in US no one is above the law. thats democracy. i think we have to learn from american. bcs they re dare to know n dare to ask. it's the voice of reason. peace Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: maaf carla, saya tak berbagi pesimisme dengan anda dalam memandang manusia. manusia tidak bergelimang dan lekat dengan dosa (kebodohan), justeru dia berpotensi menjadi mahluk Tuhan yang terbaik di atas muka bumi. saya tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) amerika. sekarang sudah ada tanda-tanda rezim bush akan bangkrut. mereka sudah kalah di kongres dan kandidatnya dalam pemilihan presiden terkena isu suap dari mafia. rezim neo-konservatif pro-industri pencemar lingkungan yang tak mau meneken protokol kyoto itu akan segera berakhir. bahkan sebagian tokoh republik, mis gubernur kalifornia arnold schwartzeneger, sekarang terang-terangan mendukung agenda demokrasi, kemanusiaan dan kelestarian lingkungan yang biasa diusung kaum demokrat. saya juga tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) indonesia. semakin banyak cendekiawan muda yang berpandangan maju. bila bisa bebas dari korupsi, indonesia akan jadi bangsa maju dan demokrat terbesar dari kalangan dunia islam. saran saya, jangan terlalu melihat kelompok militan yang sebetulnya kecil tapi suaranya keras. jangan sampai melihat bayangan harimau, padahal di balik lampu cuma ada seekor kucing. At 10:54 PM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: dear pak Nugroho, actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me). the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of them. bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 ) said: Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers). i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view to reality? As Bertrand Russell once said, The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Elsewhere he said, Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science ideas do not change simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the facts cant speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day (Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum that truth always
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
An Exegesis of Wahhabism by : Syed Kamran Mirza What is Wahabism (?): many conniving Islamists want to blame Wahabism for the inherent intolerance of real Islam. That is, they want to portray Wahabism as the separate or deviant entity of Islam which is being misunderstood (by westerners) as the real Islam. Most western non-Muslims are also being misguided by the so called Wahabite type of Islam, which according to some is not real/true peaceful Islam. Now what is actually Wahabism? Fact of the matter is, the so-called Wahabism is not a separate religion, nor is it a ~ separate brand of Islam. Truly, this Wahabism is the new force to unite Islam into its pristine form that existed in the early Islamic period of 7th century. That is the time of Prophet Muhammad and his four favorite disciplesKhula-faye-Rashedin. In the early 18th century Mohammad Ibn Abdul Wahab a famous Saudi religious extremist leader called for a renewal of Islamic spirit, moral cleansing and the stripping away of all innovations to Islam since the 7th century. His followers are called Wahabis or wahbite Islamists, and these followers of Abdul Wahab preach pure and real original Islam which got the name (erroneously) as Wahabism. Therefore, Wahabism is not a new brand of Islam or any offshoot of Islam; rather Wahabism is the re-orientation of the original pure Islam. That is Wahabism is the old pure wine in a new bottle. Wahabism does not have any separate scriptural book, Quran and Sunnah (hadiths) are the principle guidance for Wahabism. Actually, Wahabism is nothing but the real Islam of 7th century in a sheer rejuvenation by the grace of Arabs petrodollars. Most importantly, Wahabism (pure islam) is dangerously intolerant towards other religions and infidels as it was during early period of Islam (Starting from Prophet Muhammad up to the end period of four rightly guided caliphs). Followers of Wahabism prefer to identify themselves as Muwahiddunwhich means the unifiers. Wahabism is simply the political Islam that has been adopted for power sharing purposes. It has no special practices, nor special rites, and no special interpretation of the religion Islam that differs from the main body of Sunni Islam. Wahabite followers consider every Muslims should follow the practice of Islam like Wahabite Muslims and regard all those who do not follow them as the heathens and enemies of Islam. Osama bin Laden is the true follower of Wahabism. The followers of Wahabism including the Saudi Arabias ruling house of Saud insist they are simply practicing the true Islam of Prophet Muhammad. Saudi ruler (King of Saudi Arabia) did not change anything in the theological aspect of original Islam. But they have changed their own political designation as the rulers of Saudi Arabia. They are not calling them king (as Islam does not advocate Kingship); rather Saudi rulers call them The custodian of Islam. Wahabism got popularity to the west and the Muslim world during the aftermath of Iranian Revolution in 1979. Billions of Dollars were spent by Saudi to influence Wahabism ideology as the counter force to Iranian Shiite ideology throughout the whole Muslim world by building thousands of Mosques, Madrassahs, Islamic centers etc. Pakistan was flooded with Wahabi madrassas (Islamic school or factory of terrorism) which was the main focus to the American media after the 9/11 episode as the breeding ground of Taliban and al-Qaeda Jhadi force. Sheik Shishu a Kurdish Imam who is the follower of wahabism (when asked by a Kurdish reporter about wahabism) said: What is Wahabism? there is no such thing called Wahabism, only true Islam. Saudi students and Saudi citizen also have the similar opinions about Wahabism. From the book Shattering the Myth: Islam beyond ViolencePrinceton University Press, 2000). Like many other Saudis in America, Mr. Alahmari does not like to refer to the brand of Islam that is exported from his country as Wahhabism. We dont feel Wahhabism is something different, he said. It is a purification of Islam. Effects and reflections of Wahabism on the lives of Muslims: If we recapitulate how Islam as a religion had been practiced during the decades of 60s, 50s and 40s and beyond, we can surely detect tremendous changes the way Muslims practice Islam today. During 60s, 50s and 40s and even before that (for many centuries)Muslims used to practice religion Islam very privately, easily and peacefully. There was no political influence in Islam and especially in the Indian sub-continent as well as entire South East Asia Islam was tremendously influenced by Sufism and other local brand of cultural admixes. We did not see young people and college students so serious about religion. Religious activities (mainly five times prayers and fasting during Romadhan and two Eids) were duty of mainly the elders. Youngsters were not so serious about
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
jangan lupa dalam setiap aksi teror jihadis di seluruh dunia dibaliknya ada ideologi saudi dan pelatihan serta senjata amerika. begitu mesra amerika memperlakukan sekutu arabnya yang paling loyal itu, kendati mereka tak menerapkan demokrasi dan memperlakukan wanita dengan sangat buruk. why? i believe there is no such thing as a coinsidence. At 12:06 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: An Exegesis of Wahhabism by : Syed Kamran Mirza What is Wahabism (?): many conniving Islamists want to blame Wahabism for the inherent intolerance of real Islam. That is, they want to portray Wahabism as the separate or deviant entity of Islam which is being misunderstood (by westerners) as the real Islam. Most western non-Muslims are also being misguided by the so called Wahabite type of Islam, which according to some is not real/true peaceful Islam. Now what is actually Wahabism? Fact of the matter is, the so-called Wahabism is not a separate religion, nor is it a ~ separate brand of Islam. Truly, this Wahabism is the new force to unite Islam into its pristine form that existed in the early Islamic period of 7th century. That is the time of Prophet Muhammad and his four favorite disciplesKhula-faye-Rashedin. In the early 18th century Mohammad Ibn Abdul Wahab a famous Saudi religious extremist leader called for a renewal of Islamic spirit, moral cleansing and the stripping away of all innovations to Islam since the 7th century. His followers are called Wahabis or wahbite Islamists, and these followers of Abdul Wahab preach pure and real original Islam which got the name (erroneously) as Wahabism. Therefore, Wahabism is not a new brand of Islam or any offshoot of Islam; rather Wahabism is the re-orientation of the original pure Islam. That is Wahabism is the old pure wine in a new bottle. Wahabism does not have any separate scriptural book, Quran and Sunnah (hadiths) are the principle guidance for Wahabism. Actually, Wahabism is nothing but the real Islam of 7th century in a sheer rejuvenation by the grace of Arabs petrodollars. Most importantly, Wahabism (pure islam) is dangerously intolerant towards other religions and infidels as it was during early period of Islam (Starting from Prophet Muhammad up to the end period of four rightly guided caliphs). Followers of Wahabism prefer to identify themselves as Muwahiddunwhich means the unifiers. Wahabism is simply the political Islam that has been adopted for power sharing purposes. It has no special practices, nor special rites, and no special interpretation of the religion Islam that differs from the main body of Sunni Islam. Wahabite followers consider every Muslims should follow the practice of Islam like Wahabite Muslims and regard all those who do not follow them as the heathens and enemies of Islam. Osama bin Laden is the true follower of Wahabism. The followers of Wahabism including the Saudi Arabias ruling house of Saud insist they are simply practicing the true Islam of Prophet Muhammad. Saudi ruler (King of Saudi Arabia) did not change anything in the theological aspect of original Islam. But they have changed their own political designation as the rulers of Saudi Arabia. They are not calling them king (as Islam does not advocate Kingship); rather Saudi rulers call them The custodian of Islam. Wahabism got popularity to the west and the Muslim world during the aftermath of Iranian Revolution in 1979. Billions of Dollars were spent by Saudi to influence Wahabism ideology as the counter force to Iranian Shiite ideology throughout the whole Muslim world by building thousands of Mosques, Madrassahs, Islamic centers etc. Pakistan was flooded with Wahabi madrassas (Islamic school or factory of terrorism) which was the main focus to the American media after the 9/11 episode as the breeding ground of Taliban and al-Qaeda Jhadi force. Sheik Shishu a Kurdish Imam who is the follower of wahabism (when asked by a Kurdish reporter about wahabism) said: What is Wahabism? there is no such thing called Wahabism, only true Islam. Saudi students and Saudi citizen also have the similar opinions about Wahabism. From the book Shattering the Myth: Islam beyond ViolencePrinceton University Press, 2000). Like many other Saudis in America, Mr. Alahmari does not like to refer to the brand of Islam that is exported from his country as Wahhabism. We dont feel Wahhabism is something different, he said. It is a purification of Islam. Effects and reflections of Wahabism on the lives of Muslims: If we recapitulate how Islam as a religion had been practiced during the decades of 60s, 50s and 40s and beyond, we can surely detect tremendous changes the way Muslims practice Islam today. During 60s, 50s and 40s and even before that (for many centuries)Muslims used to practice religion Islam very privately, easily and peacefully. There was no political influence in Islam and especially in the Indian
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
thats what its called double-standard politic.., not only US but EU countries have their shared in guilt. but as a matter of fact, even saudis corporations have connection with jewish bankers, they put and invest most of their money into western countries. ironically they rarely invested their money for economy development to south asian country esp indonesia (where by fact they re growing number of wahhabist here). saudis's sheikh lives larger than life, they have castles, mansions, all over the world, they have the finest wine collections, have all the luxurius cars ( ferrari, porsche, lamborghini..etc), in my opinion they re living a kaffur kinda life. the life that so contrast with the teaching of wahhabism and also the Quran n hadith. and also US n EU and all the rest of the world, maintain their delusional hypocrisy, and try to ignore the fact that some (not all) saudis wealthy re chief financer of terrorist groups. money, power, politics, oil, and finally religion's ideology. osama bin laden was an outcast son of the wealthy and saudis respectful family, but he denounced all the luxury that money could offered and lives as fugitive and hero in the eyes of wahhabist ppl. one of the essence of wahhabism is to denounced all related to kaffur, it means includes the kaffur's way of life ( no modern fashionable clothes, no branded shoes its means no manolo..:) the kaffur's modern tech ( no cell phone, no computer, no refrigerator, no AC, no cars, no airplane, no radio, no TV, no internet, no bus, no taxi, no ipod, no LCD), women's cant have a higher education, no mcdonald, no kfc, no malls, no breadtalk, no starbucks, no sushi, no credit card, btw no high tech hospitals (so if they got terrible sick just dont go to US, singapore or Europe countries's hospitals.. just go to arabs's hospital for cure, no need for advance medicine bcs all major medicine's institutions for curing all terminal deseases re from n in kaffurs' countries, gosh it's so manyu figure out ur self then..:) my point is osama's life is an example for all wahhabist who realy hates western n all kaffurs.., i mean he really lives abide with his faith. i means he got a credit for that for standing up for what he believe. but for those wahhabist who claimed that the non-muslim (the hindhu, budhist, atheist, christian, jewish, shinto, tao, or many other beliefs) is kaffurs bcs we have the wrong way of life and beliefs. and want to destroy our civilization. want to convert our life ( as an atheist, shinto, judaism, christian, hindhu, budha, and other beliefs) to their religion. bcs they think their religion re the only truth and the others re false and need to be conquered and destroyed? pls dont be double standard n hypocrite. lives like osama's lives.., isn't he their hero?, quit job, go to afgan, or sudan, and lives in the desert. years ago, i thought it's only a political war (bcs of palestine (n arabs) war with israel, but as years passed i began to realize that there's not the most important reason. the main reason is bcs it's their ideology, it's their belief's system. i read articles and comments of some intellectual muslim scholars n their quite respectible but they have the same agree with this ideology. so i got the conclusion then, i think wahhabism is the real islam, it's the pure islam. many of muslim scholar's apologist try to counter this perception abt wahhabism is the real islam. but how can they counter the Quran n hadith. how can they contradict Quran n hadith bcs by facts wahhabism practicing the pure Quran n hadith. the universal values is not in one's religion, but in equality, humanity and freedom. in my personal opinion, the best religion dont exist. it's delusional. the true religion/belief i dont have a clue what it is, even an atheist claimed what they believe is the truth. anyway, u dont have to agree with me though, everyone has their own opinion n beliefs. it's their right. their personal faith re their basic right . who am i to claim that hindhuism re the true religion, or atheist re the best belief system? so why bother? but now humanity has new enemy it's called- ideology of hatred. hitler had tried once to genocide one race n to conquered europe, but he was defeated. and died in shame. so this ism will also ended sooner or later. peace Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jangan lupa dalam setiap aksi teror jihadis di seluruh dunia dibaliknya ada ideologi saudi dan pelatihan serta senjata amerika. begitu mesra amerika memperlakukan sekutu arabnya yang paling loyal itu, kendati mereka tak menerapkan demokrasi dan memperlakukan wanita dengan sangat buruk. why? i believe there is no such thing as a coinsidence. At 12:06 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: An Exegesis of Wahhabism by : Syed
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
terserah anda mengatakan wahabi adalah islam yang sesungguhnya, atau islam yang murni. sebaliknya saya tak akan pernah mengatakan kristen sebagaimana diyakini george bush adalah kristen yang sesungguhnya, atau kristen yang murni. terlalu banyak orang besar kristen yang tak layak dibandingkan dengan seorang george bush yang acap mengutip injil dalam pidatonya. saya cuma akan mengatakan bahwa ideologi kebencian bisa datang dari mana saja. termasuk dari kalangan kita sendiri. kesetaraan, kemanusiaan dan kebebasan yang dulu diperjuangkan abraham lincoln di amerika --hingga dia terpaksa mendeklarasikan perang saudara yang menewaskan 640 ribu orang-- kini terancam oleh sebuah rezim yang kebijakannya didasari kredo untuk menegakkan hak-hak kekristenan. alangkah menyedihkan. dan soal ini menjadi pr besar buat rakyat amerika. At 04:32 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: so i got the conclusion then, i think wahhabism is the real islam, it's the pure islam. many of muslim scholar's apologist try to counter this perception abt wahhabism is the real islam. but how can they counter the Quran n hadith. how can they contradict Quran n hadith bcs by facts wahhabism practicing the pure Quran n hadith. the universal values is not in one's religion, but in equality, humanity and freedom. in my personal opinion, the best religion dont exist. it's delusional. the true religion/belief i dont have a clue what it is, even an atheist claimed what they believe is the truth. anyway, u dont have to agree with me though, everyone has their own opinion n beliefs. it's their right. their personal faith re their basic right . who am i to claim that hindhuism re the true religion, or atheist re the best belief system? so why bother? but now humanity has new enemy it's called- ideology of hatred. hitler had tried once to genocide one race n to conquered europe, but he was defeated. and died in shame. so this ism will also ended sooner or later. peace
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
dear pak Nugroho, actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me). the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of them. bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 ) said: Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers). i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view to reality? As Bertrand Russell once said, The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Elsewhere he said, Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science ideas do not change simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the facts cant speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day (Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes. History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it may be thrown back for centuries. It is a lie to think that truth will automatically triumph over lies or that goodness will eventually win over evil on its own. This is a sweet lie that has no bases on reality and it serves to no purpose other than to lull us into inaction. Truth does not win unless someone promotes it and goodness will not triumph unless someone advances it. Who will advance the truth? The orthodoxy will not tolerate innovative ideas that defy its paradigm. The pioneers ( liberal muslim) are often outsiders. They are mavericks and heretics, rejected by the orthodoxy in this case the wahhabism as the orthodox. Not all learning is knowledge. Most people have learned a lot, but they know little. They are scholars, but not scouts. regarding wahhabism, why more muslim follows this kinda teaching (not voice of reason n their compassion, like all liberal muslim) ? this fact is defies logic. What actually is happening is that they feel threatened. Their faith is challenged, and as the result, they hide deeper in their shell. They will not venture out, until that shell is completely broken and it can no longer provide protection (this related to ur posting Rendah diri kaum wahhabi). so to achieve that goal, we must pound on it with truth until it is smashed into pieces. Erick Fromm in, The Fear of Freedom, (Routledge 17 May 2001) upholds the idea that capitalism frees man from a society that reduces him to a single role, but at a price. The price is isolation. Man has to find or create his place in the world. This causes anxiety. Whilst fascism, Nazism, theocracies, and all forms of authoritarianisms, satisfy mans psychological need to belong. They provide a simple us vs. them ethos which gives the adherent something bigger to be a part of. Through conformity man tries to beat the anxiety of separation. That means loss of freedom and loss of independence. By conforming you belong, but you give up your wholeness and become a part of something else. The fear of being different, to be isolated, to become an outcast, is cause for anxiety and this is what makes us humans conform conform with the norms and the dictums of the society with its values, its standards, its mores and its wisdom. We need to find something to belong to. Our peers, our country, our religion and ultimately our faith/ideology give us security and the sense of
