[RE-wrenches] Solyndra

[Kirk Herander, VSE]

Anyone out there nave experience with these thin film cylindrical "panels"?
Thanks.

 

Kirk Herander

Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202

NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer

NYSERDA-eligible Installer

VT Solar Incentive Program Partner

 

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[RE-wrenches] Portable Solar Trailer w/ intermittent Ground Fault

[Jason Szumlanski]

As far as I know, you won't find a mobile listed inverter that can be
grid tied (for the reason mentioned by Steve. I'm curious about how you
are "feeding a GFI breaker." I think the best you can (legally and
safely) do with a mobile system is to power loads using a listed mobile
inverter plugged into and A/C transfer switch inlet at the premises, as
if the portable solar energy system is a portable generator. The utility
and the AHJ would not allow a "temporary grid-tied" PV system.

Any differing opinions?

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar

-Original Message-
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:59:01 -0700
From: "Steve Higgins" 
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Portable Solar Trailer w/ intermittent
Ground  Fault
Message-ID: <8b410ba5e8e5bf49b7c591dcbf706add020be...@mail1.ob.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Wayne, 

That's because the GVFX3524 goes not provide any support for ground
switching.   If you install a Ground switching relay and isolate the
input neutral from the output neutral bus's this will get rid of this
problem... 

On a side note how did you get a utility (or have you) to approve a GT
inverter on a mobile trailer? 

Steve Higgins. 

Sr Application Engineering Mgr
Sub-Saharan Africa Business Dev Mgr. 
Outback Power Systems. 
19009 62nd Ave Ne 
Arlington Wa 98223
360-618-4313

 
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Wayne
Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:30 AM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable Solar Trailer w/ intermittent Ground
Fault

Hello Wrenches,

We have a 2KW portable unit with one Outback GVFX3524. Intermittently,
we have a problem feeding GFI breakers. 
Its the strangest thing, sometimes it trips GFI's and other times it
doesn't. Aside from the possibility that some of the GFI's aren't wired
properly we haven't been able to figure it out. We have it plugged into
a GFI at the shop (which is wired properly) and there is no problem.

I thought there was a previous string on this issue but could not find
it in the archives.
What do you recommend for grounding portable units and what
recommendations do you have from personal experience?

Thanks!

Wayne Irwin
Director of Engineering
Pure Energy Solar International Inc. 
State Licensed Solar Contractor
License # CVC56695 
wa...@pureenergysolar.com   
http://pureenergysolar.com   
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax 
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[RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

[Jason Szumlanski]

Dave,

I think you are missing the point. We are (unfortunately) not doing 200
system in the very near future, but if we are to be able to market PV to
our customers, we can't sit in their living room and tell them that it's
going to cost $X and X amount time to have a system certified for their
specific roof and their specific number, brand, and wattage of module.
Kits don't work in this business, and requiring certification for every
conceivable combination of solar energy system is prohibitively time
consuming and costly.

We have never been required to give an FSEC system certification to
obtain a permit. We have only been asked to provide module certification
and component listing information, which I believe is reasonable and
appropriate.

I'll contact you off-list to discuss this particular situation and
provide the name of the person who provided me the information.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar


-Original Message-
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:09:45 -0400
From: Dave Click 
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
Message-ID: <4c07e1d9.6080...@fsec.ucf.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1

Jason, I don't believe that you're working with correct information and 
I'm not sure who you spoke with here at FSEC. Please contact me offlist 
so we can discuss this further.

Also, we'd be pretty excited to learn that you were installing 200 
systems in the state. Carry on!

 Original Message 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
From: Jason Szumlanski 
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: 2010/6/3 09:57

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar
> system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although
we
> have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area,
> they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC
> system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We
are
> having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement
> came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what
> purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of
microinverters.
> As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and
> the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical
> reason to jump through this hoop?
>
> On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify
> Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have
to
> apply for one system, and then apply for "similar" systems if the
number
> of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we
supposed
> to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt
> they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar
system
> applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in
their
> inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
> Cape Coral, FL

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Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

[Dave Click]

Jason, I don't believe that you're working with correct information and 
I'm not sure who you spoke with here at FSEC. Please contact me offlist 
so we can discuss this further.


Also, we'd be pretty excited to learn that you were installing 200 
systems in the state. Carry on!


 Original Message 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?
From: Jason Szumlanski 
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: 2010/6/3 09:57


Hi Wrenches,

Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar
system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we
have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area,
they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC
system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are
having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement
came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what
purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters.
As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and
the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical
reason to jump through this hoop?

On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify
Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to
apply for one system, and then apply for "similar" systems if the number
of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed
to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt
they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system
applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their
inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
Cape Coral, FL

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mage Solar

[bob]

Those panels on the web page look like the Solar World that I am presently
installing.

 

 Bob Ellison

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake
Chamberlin
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:19 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mage Solar

 

Hello Wrenches,

Who has tried Mage solar modules?

http://www.magesolar.com/us/products/mono-and-polycrystalline-modules.html 

They look really good with a 30 year power warranty, a 10 year product
warranty  and +5% tolerance.   Does anyone have hands on experience with
these products?  Is it a reliable company? 

-TIA



Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP TM  Certified PV Installer 
Office - 740-448-7328
Mobile - 740-856-9648 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

[Joel Davidson]

Hello Jason,

I got the first FSEC BIPV certification. The paperwork was time-consuming, 
but the FSEC people were reasonable. Getting FSEC certification is like 
getting UL, IEC, CSI, etc. certification. It's the price of admission to get 
you and your product in the game. Superior Solar, Solartek, etc. already 
have certified Enphase in combination with various solar modules. Sun 
Electronics has paid its dues and has multiple system certifications. Also 
Enphase has worked with FSEC. See 
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/segis_winners_2008.pdf
I encourage you to get Enphase to support your effort to expand the use of 
their product.


Joel Davidson

- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Szumlanski" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:57 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?



Hi Wrenches,

Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar
system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we
have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area,
they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC
system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are
having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement
came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what
purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters.
As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and
the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical
reason to jump through this hoop?

On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify
Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to
apply for one system, and then apply for "similar" systems if the number
of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed
to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt
they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system
applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their
inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
Cape Coral, FL

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Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

[David Brearley]

Jason,

I'm only familiar with this because a distributor I worked for went through
the process of having their PV kits approved by FSEC. This was 6 years ago,
so the requirement has been around for a while. This prerequisite never
really made sense to me, for precisely the reason you point out.

Changes in both market conditions and product lines means that the designs
we use are constantly changing, plus roofs vary. I was never big on the kit
concept for this very reason. But I suppose kits make a lot of sense if some
central authority has to pre-approve an entire bill of materials.

Microinverters are great for kits. If you're going to send per microinverter
applications to FSEC, don't forget to send applications for every module you
work with. In fact, send applications for every Enphase-compatible module.
That'll keep them busy. Since the manufacturers revise their specs every
year, you can send the whole package back to FSEC in another 12 months.

(FSEC recently had a 2-year backlog to certify solar thermal collectors, so
it could be worse.)

The recommendation to engage SolarTech is a good one. Their goal is to
remove unnecessary market barriers. You might also want to join you're state
SEIA chapter and work to develop and implement more scalable quality control
measures for the PV industry, jurisdictions and inspectors in Florida. I
understand that there is a centralized body of knowledge at FSEC, but
arguably a decentralized review process will better serve everyone in the
long run.

Best, 

David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
SolarPro magazine 
NABCEP Certified PV Installer 



On 6/3/10 8:57 AM, "Jason Szumlanski"  wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
> 
> Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar
> system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we
> have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area,
> they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC
> system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are
> having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement
> came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what
> purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters.
> As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and
> the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical
> reason to jump through this hoop?
> 
> On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify
> Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to
> apply for one system, and then apply for "similar" systems if the number
> of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed
> to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt
> they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system
> applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their
> inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
> Cape Coral, FL
> 
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> 






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Re: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

[Chris Anderson]

You might consider joining / soliciting Solar Tech to help you fight this 
battle.
http://solartech.org/

-Chris Anderson
  Chief Technology Officer
  Resources Group 
  C: 603-732-2411
  Borrego Solar Systems


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

Hi Wrenches,

Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar
system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we
have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area,
they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC
system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are
having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement
came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what
purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters.
As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and
the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical
reason to jump through this hoop?

On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify
Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to
apply for one system, and then apply for "similar" systems if the number
of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed
to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt
they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system
applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their
inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
Cape Coral, FL

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[RE-wrenches] FSEC Approval Required for Permit?

[Jason Szumlanski]

Hi Wrenches,

Has anyone dealt with a jurisdiction that requires FSEC or similar
system approval as a prerequisite for obtaining a PV permit? Although we
have installed many systems in a particular jurisdiction in our area,
they just rejected a permit application because we do not have an FSEC
system certification on this system (24 Enphase microinverters). We are
having a hard time getting them to explain from where the requirement
came. It seems like a nonsense roadblock to me. I can't imagine what
purpose an FSEC certification would serve in the case of microinverters.
As long as you are using a module on Enphase's compatibility list and
the module itself has FSEC certification, can you think of any logical
reason to jump through this hoop?

On that note, I contacted FSEC to see what it would require to certify
Enphase microinverter systems. They are telling me that we would have to
apply for one system, and then apply for "similar" systems if the number
of inverters changes. That doesn't make any sense to me. Are we supposed
to submit applications for 1, 2, 3...50...150 module systems? I doubt
they have time to deal with the paperwork for hundreds of similar system
applications. Imagine dropping 200 similar system applications in their
inbox to cover all quantities of microinverters.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
Cape Coral, FL

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