[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 18 Apr., 17:50, Anne Schilling wrote: > Thanks for your answer. By degree you mean the degree of the relations or > the degree of the expressions in the quotient monoid/ring? Everything in Letterplace is subject to a degree bound. That bound is static in Singular: You need to fix it before you start your computation. In my wrapper, the degree bound is auto-adaptive: If the program finds that the current degree bound won't suffice for your computation, then it will automatically raise the bound. So, when I say "degree" then sometimes I refer to that degree bound, respectively to the maximal degree of a monomial that occurs in your computation. And if I am not mistaken, if G_d is the truncated Gröbner basis out to degree d of some homogeneous ideal I (and such truncated Gröbner bases is what Singular's letterplace is providing) then |G_d| generally grows exponentially in d. So, problems (such as "compute the normal form with respect to I of some element of degree d") become very soon very difficult. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Simon, On 18 Apr., 04:49, Anne Schilling wrote: Hi Simon, Using your letterplace code, I get the following error: Singular error: no more memory System 65340600k:65340600k Appl 1084175k/64215466k Malloc 18133k/0k Valloc 65281508k/64215466k Pages 16320377/0 Regions 127623:127623 halt 14 Smaller computations are working fine. Any idea of how I could debug this? It is known that letterplace computations tend to consume an awful lot of memory. That is no surprise, since (at least if I am not mistaken) the Letterplace Gröbner bases are not only infinite but the number of its elements grows exponentially with the degree. Thanks for your answer. By degree you mean the degree of the relations or the degree of the expressions in the quotient monoid/ring? Best wishes, Anne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
PS: On 18 Apr., 12:04, "Nicolas M. Thiery" wrote: > Out of curiosity: does Singular have any builtin memory limit, or is > it just using as much memory as is available on the system, as the > above seems to suggest? We are using libSingular in this example, not a Singular subprocess via pexpect. I would expect that libSingular has no separate memory bound (or *can not* have, since it is just a C-library). Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Nicolas, On 18 Apr., 12:04, "Nicolas M. Thiery" wrote: > Out of curiosity: does Singular have any builtin memory limit, or is > it just using as much memory as is available on the system, as the > above seems to suggest? Sorry, I have no idea if you need ulimit to prevent Singular from eating all available resources, or if there is something else. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 12:47:05AM -0700, Simon King wrote: > On 18 Apr., 04:49, Anne Schilling wrote: > > Using your letterplace code, I get the following error: > > > > Singular error: no more memory > > System 65340600k:65340600k Appl 1084175k/64215466k Malloc 18133k/0k Valloc > > 65281508k/64215466k Pages 16320377/0 Regions 127623:127623 > > > > halt 14 > > > > Smaller computations are working fine. > > > > Any idea of how I could debug this? > > It is known that letterplace computations tend to consume an awful lot > of memory. That is no surprise, since (at least if I am not mistaken) > the Letterplace Gröbner bases are not only infinite but the number of > its elements grows exponentially with the degree. Out of curiosity: does Singular have any builtin memory limit, or is it just using as much memory as is available on the system, as the above seems to suggest? Cheers, Nicolas -- Nicolas M. Thiéry "Isil" http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 18 Apr., 04:49, Anne Schilling wrote: > Hi Simon, > > Using your letterplace code, I get the following error: > > Singular error: no more memory > System 65340600k:65340600k Appl 1084175k/64215466k Malloc 18133k/0k Valloc > 65281508k/64215466k Pages 16320377/0 Regions 127623:127623 > > halt 14 > > Smaller computations are working fine. > > Any idea of how I could debug this? It is known that letterplace computations tend to consume an awful lot of memory. That is no surprise, since (at least if I am not mistaken) the Letterplace Gröbner bases are not only infinite but the number of its elements grows exponentially with the degree. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Simon, Using your letterplace code, I get the following error: Singular error: no more memory System 65340600k:65340600k Appl 1084175k/64215466k Malloc 18133k/0k Valloc 65281508k/64215466k Pages 16320377/0 Regions 127623:127623 halt 14 Smaller computations are working fine. Any idea of how I could debug this? Best, Anne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
On 4/4/11 11:39 AM, Simon King wrote: Hi Anne, On 4 Apr., 06:42, Anne Schilling wrote: Ok. Will you open it? Or do you want me to do so? I'd prefer if you do. Ok, this is now #11127. Cheers, Anne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 4 Apr., 06:42, Anne Schilling wrote: > Ok. Will you open it? Or do you want me to do so? > I'd prefer if you do. Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Simon, On 2 Apr., 08:50, Anne Schilling wrote: ... I think this makes sense; when the elements in the quotient are printed, there is also a choice which representative is printed. So going through the iterator, one would just expect to give one of the representatives. The result of the iterator would return elements of the quotient ring, not the cover ring, right? OK. But I think that should be on a different ticket, because it contains quotient rings in general and not letterplace. Ok. Will you open it? Or do you want me to do so? Cheers, Anne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 2 Apr., 08:50, Anne Schilling wrote: > ... > I think this makes sense; when the elements in the quotient are printed, > there is also a choice which representative is printed. So going through > the iterator, one would just expect to give one of the representatives. > The result of the iterator would return elements of the quotient ring, not the > cover ring, right? OK. But I think that should be on a different ticket, because it contains quotient rings in general and not letterplace. Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Simon, On 1 Apr., 00:09, Anne Schilling wrote: I have a question regarding the quotients. If I work in the free algebra sage: F = FreeAlgebra(QQ,3,'x',implementation='letterplace') sage: x = F.gens() sage: p=x[1]*x[0]+x[2]*x[2] I can iterate over the elements: sage: [w for w in p] [((0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1), 1), ((0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0), 1)] and hence can get access to the keys this way. However, for quotients this does not work: That's because it is just the existing code for QuotienRingElement. Is there a plan to change this? Not from my side. But I wonder if it would make sense to provid the quotient ring elements with an iterator inherited from the cover ring: def __iter__(self): return self.__rep.__iter__() or something like that. I don't know if this makes sense, though. After all, that depends on the choice of a representative for the quotient ring element. I think this makes sense; when the elements in the quotient are printed, there is also a choice which representative is printed. So going through the iterator, one would just expect to give one of the representatives. The result of the iterator would return elements of the quotient ring, not the cover ring, right? Best wishes, Anne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
On Fri, Apr 01, 2011 at 12:07:36AM -0700, Simon King wrote: > On 31 Mrz., 21:35, Simon King wrote: > > Once again, I forgot to include __init__.py in a patch. I will update > > it on trac tomorrow. > > Done. I don't know why, but aparently mercurial will not include an > empty file in the patch. So, I filled __init__.py with a comment. Yup; that's a know shortcoming of standard patches. You can request git-style patches by throwing this in your .hgrc: [diff] git=1 Cheers, Nicolas -- Nicolas M. Thiéry "Isil" http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 31 Mrz., 21:35, Simon King wrote: > Once again, I forgot to include __init__.py in a patch. I will update > it on trac tomorrow. Done. I don't know why, but aparently mercurial will not include an empty file in the patch. So, I filled __init__.py with a comment. You can play with the patch, if you like, and of course I'd appreciate feedback, but for now, it is still "needs work". Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 1 Apr., 00:09, Anne Schilling wrote: > I have a question regarding the quotients. If I work in the free algebra > > sage: F = FreeAlgebra(QQ,3,'x',implementation='letterplace') > sage: x = F.gens() > sage: p=x[1]*x[0]+x[2]*x[2] > > I can iterate over the elements: > > sage: [w for w in p] > [((0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1), 1), ((0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0), 1)] > > and hence can get access to the keys this way. However, for quotients this > does not work: That's because it is just the existing code for QuotienRingElement. > Is there a plan to change this? Not from my side. But I wonder if it would make sense to provid the quotient ring elements with an iterator inherited from the cover ring: def __iter__(self): return self.__rep.__iter__() or something like that. I don't know if this makes sense, though. After all, that depends on the choice of a representative for the quotient ring element. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Simon, Thank you for your answers! I keep working with the combined patch trac7797-full_letterplace_wrapper.patch for now. I have a question regarding the quotients. If I work in the free algebra sage: F = FreeAlgebra(QQ,3,'x',implementation='letterplace') sage: x = F.gens() sage: p=x[1]*x[0]+x[2]*x[2] I can iterate over the elements: sage: [w for w in p] [((0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1), 1), ((0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0), 1)] and hence can get access to the keys this way. However, for quotients this does not work: sage: F = FreeAlgebra(QQ,3,'x',implementation='letterplace') sage: x = F.gens() sage: rel = [x[2]**2 - x[1]*x[0]] sage: I = F*rel*F sage: Q = F.quo(I, names='a') sage: a = Q.gens() sage: p=a[1]*a[0]+a[2]*a[2] sage: p 2*a2*a2 sage: [w for w in p] --- TypeError Traceback (most recent call last) TypeError: 'QuotientRingElement' object is not iterable Is there a plan to change this? I am now using the trick of coercing to another free algebra to get access to the iterator: sage: K = FreeAlgebra(QQ,3,'x') sage: p=a[1]*a[0]+a[2]*a[2] sage: [w for w in p.lift()*K.one()] [(2, x2^2)] but this seems a little around about. Cheers, Anne On 3/31/11 12:35 PM, Simon King wrote: Here is the solution: Create an empty file __init__.py in .../sage/algebras/letterplace/, for examply with touch sage/algebras/letterplace/__init__.py (when you are in SAGE_ROOT/devel/sage/) Then, sage -br should do the trick. Once again, I forgot to include __init__.py in a patch. I will update it on trac tomorrow. Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Here is the solution: Create an empty file __init__.py in .../sage/algebras/letterplace/, for examply with touch sage/algebras/letterplace/__init__.py (when you are in SAGE_ROOT/devel/sage/) Then, sage -br should do the trick. Once again, I forgot to include __init__.py in a patch. I will update it on trac tomorrow. Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne On 31 Mrz., 14:09, Anne Schilling wrote: > /Applications/sage-4.6.2/devel/sage-combinat/sage/algebras/letterplace/free_algebra_letterplace.pxd:15:72: > Name 'FreeAlgebraElement_letterplace' not declared in module > 'sage.algebras.letterplace.free_algebra_element_letterplace' I can reproduce the problem. Well, the ticket currently is "needs work" anyway :( Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
On 31 Mrz., 14:09, Anne Schilling wrote: > /Applications/sage-4.6.2/devel/sage-combinat/sage/algebras/letterplace/free_algebra_letterplace.pxd:15:72: > Name 'FreeAlgebraElement_letterplace' not declared in module > 'sage.algebras.letterplace.free_algebra_element_letterplace' On the other hand, if it can not find stuff, then something is wrong. Can you tell me the content of .../sage/algebras/letterplace/ ? Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Anne, On 31 Mrz., 14:09, Anne Schilling wrote: > Hi Simon, > > Applying your two patches > > trac11068_nc_ideals_and_quotients.patch > trac7797-full_letterplace_wrapper_rel11068.patch > > in this order, I get the attached error for sage -b. Am I missing a patch? Do you also have the patch from #10961, which is a dependency for #11068? Anyway, I think I'll soon have to rebase everything. Namely, in #11068, it would be nice if one could *move* code from sage.rings.ring.Ring to sage.categories.rings.Rings.ParentMethods, rather than copying it (code duplication is known as a "code smell"). But in order to be able to move it, it is needed that the category is properly initialised for all rings. This is the purpose of #9944 and #9138. But I think that, for now, #10961, #11068 and #7797 should be enough for letterplace. Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Nicolas, On 29 Mrz., 11:19, "Nicolas M. Thiery" wrote: > All good, as long as it plays smoothly with the patches posted on > #9944! Hm. I guess that it is better to post on #9944 rather than on #9138, then. Cheers, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 02:05:11AM -0700, Simon King wrote: > On 29 Mrz., 11:00, "Nicolas M. Thiery" > wrote: > > I am happy with the recycling of this ticket. Especially since we also > > have #9944: categories for polynomial rings. > > I guess that could be fixed as well. Currently I have > sage: QQ['x'].category() > Category of algebras over Rational Field > with my to-be-doctested-and finished patch. I think it could very well > be "commutative algebras". All good, as long as it plays smoothly with the patches posted on #9944! Cheers, Nicolas -- Nicolas M. Thiéry "Isil" http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Categorification of sage/rings/ring.pyx
Hi Nicolas, On 29 Mrz., 11:00, "Nicolas M. Thiery" wrote: > I am happy with the recycling of this ticket. Especially since we also > have #9944: categories for polynomial rings. I guess that could be fixed as well. Currently I have sage: QQ['x'].category() Category of algebras over Rational Field with my to-be-doctested-and finished patch. I think it could very well be "commutative algebras". Best regards, Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-combinat-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en.
