Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
> The roundhouse itself is an original artifact of the B & O railroad. It was > built prior to that information being available. > >From what I read, the original buildings roof withstood snow loads for over 100 years, it's only after a 1.5 million dollar rebuilding that it collapsed!! Maybe we don't know as much today as we think we do! Possibly replacing all that iron with steel was a mistake! Keith
Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
Not sure if it was the Discovery Channel or not, but one of those education minded channels had an excellent show on how the World Trade Center towers came down. Once one element of the structure lets go, the loads on the remaining elements will fail in spectacular fashion. The physics and computer modeling of that collapse are fascinating, but unfortunately quite frightening at the same time. On the positive side, the Towers stood much longer than designed after taking such punishment (707 versus 757 fully gassed up). I suspect the same is true in Baltimore. Notice that the center section is still intact and that maybe a third to one half of the roof is still intact. All should be thankful for that. It could have been much worse. Along with the readings mentioned below, try to hunt down that WTC TV show. It is fascinating. - Original Message - From: Jim Stapleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures > Gang > > I think that this discussion is the sort of idle speculation the media > engages in when something "spectacular" happens. NOW FOR MY SPECULATION... > Since the roof came down in the dark, no one actually saw it collapse. > Until an appropriate analysis is done on the remains of the IRON structural > members, and all the pin connections and truss rods, we will not know for > sure. Remember, this building was constructed ca. 1884. The snowfall in > Baltimore was the largest since they started keeping records, and depending > on how the wind was blowing that night, the amount on one side of the roof > versus the other could have been significant. I am not a structural > engineer by profession, so I cannot say how this would effect a roof that > is uniform in its circular layout. Typically however, unless designed to > absorb unusual stresses due to a failure in one place, the damage spreads > rapidly. A classic example of that was the failure of the (2.5 acre) roof > of the civic arena in Hartford CT in January 1978 due to snow load. > > For those interested in such things I highly recommend the following three > very "readable" books (which are part of my personal library); > 1)"To Engineer Is Human: The Role of Failure in Successful Design" by Henry > Petroski , 1992 > 2)"Why Buildings Stand Up: The Strength of Architecture" by Mario > Salvadori, 1980 > 3)"Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail" by Mario Salvadori and > Matthys Levy > > Regards > > Jim Stapleton > Purcellville VA, still under snow and expecting MORE Thursday > = > At 09:27 PM 02/24/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >NO! We can get a storm like this at least once every few years. The last > >few winters have been very mild here in S.E. PA. We are about 90 miles > >north of Baltimore,MD. The last big storm of note was in 1996. Definitely > >less than 100 years. Last year at this time, the hardy ones around here > >were steaming at our club track. > > > >Phil > >> > > >> > It would seem a crime that the roundhouse wasn't designed to withstand > >> > anticipatable snow loads without risking irreplaceable artifacts > >> > (trains). But maybe these snow loads were outside the 100 year limits. > >> > Were they ? > >> > > >> > royce in SB > >> > > > > > > > > >
Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
Gang I think that this discussion is the sort of idle speculation the media engages in when something "spectacular" happens. NOW FOR MY SPECULATION... Since the roof came down in the dark, no one actually saw it collapse. Until an appropriate analysis is done on the remains of the IRON structural members, and all the pin connections and truss rods, we will not know for sure. Remember, this building was constructed ca. 1884. The snowfall in Baltimore was the largest since they started keeping records, and depending on how the wind was blowing that night, the amount on one side of the roof versus the other could have been significant. I am not a structural engineer by profession, so I cannot say how this would effect a roof that is uniform in its circular layout. Typically however, unless designed to absorb unusual stresses due to a failure in one place, the damage spreads rapidly. A classic example of that was the failure of the (2.5 acre) roof of the civic arena in Hartford CT in January 1978 due to snow load. For those interested in such things I highly recommend the following three very "readable" books (which are part of my personal library); 1)"To Engineer Is Human: The Role of Failure in Successful Design" by Henry Petroski , 1992 2)"Why Buildings Stand Up: The Strength of Architecture" by Mario Salvadori, 1980 3)"Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail" by Mario Salvadori and Matthys Levy Regards Jim Stapleton Purcellville VA, still under snow and expecting MORE Thursday = At 09:27 PM 02/24/2003 -0500, you wrote: >NO! We can get a storm like this at least once every few years. The last >few winters have been very mild here in S.E. PA. We are about 90 miles >north of Baltimore,MD. The last big storm of note was in 1996. Definitely >less than 100 years. Last year at this time, the hardy ones around here >were steaming at our club track. > >Phil >> > >> > It would seem a crime that the roundhouse wasn't designed to withstand >> > anticipatable snow loads without risking irreplaceable artifacts >> > (trains). But maybe these snow loads were outside the 100 year limits. >> > Were they ? >> > >> > royce in SB >> > > > >
Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
NO! We can get a storm like this at least once every few years. The last few winters have been very mild here in S.E. PA. We are about 90 miles north of Baltimore,MD. The last big storm of note was in 1996. Definitely less than 100 years. Last year at this time, the hardy ones around here were steaming at our club track. Phil > > > > It would seem a crime that the roundhouse wasn't designed to withstand > > anticipatable snow loads without risking irreplaceable artifacts > > (trains). But maybe these snow loads were outside the 100 year limits. > > Were they ? > > > > royce in SB > >
Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
Royce, I can speak for New Jersey and tell you this was a highly unusual storm. Not only was the snow deep, it was a heavy wet snow and was driven by VERY strong winds. In my town we lost the entire roof of the local bowling alley, my old high school lost part of its roof, and in the local retirement villages 100+ sun rooms were destroyed. All this occurred within a 10 miles radius of my house. In north Jersey there were several other roof collapses including one at a Wal-Mart. At least 2 people were killed at yet another collapse up north. This was a wild storm which combined weight, wind, and depth into a deadly combination. At the Museum I am part of we jacked up the heater to ensure that the snow started to melt and run off our big shop roof as soon as we knew we might have a problem with snow load. I am sure that it would have had sections (the sky lights in particular) come down if we had not done that. No way to anticipate something like this. J.R. www.njmt.org - Original Message - From: Royce Woodbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:28 PM Subject: Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures > It would seem a crime that the roundhouse wasn't designed to withstand > anticipatable snow loads without risking irreplaceable artifacts > (trains). But maybe these snow loads were outside the 100 year limits. > Were they ? > > royce in SB > > Dave Cole wrote: > > > folks: > > > > the b&o museum has released a set of pictures from inside the > > roundhouse, that give you a graphic idea of the extent of the damage > > that the crash of the snow-laden roof caused. > > > > http://www.borail.org/roundhouse_restoration/ > > > > \dmc > > > > > >
RE: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
The roundhouse itself is an original artifact of the B & O railroad. It was built prior to that information being available. This is quite a unique structure with the turntable in the middle of the roundhouse under the cover of the roof. Their are or were probably others but it is the only one that I know of. Steve > -Original Message- > From: Royce Woodbury [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:29 PM > To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam > Subject: Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures > > It would seem a crime that the roundhouse wasn't designed to withstand > anticipatable snow loads without risking irreplaceable artifacts > (trains). But maybe these snow loads were outside the 100 year limits. > Were they ? > > royce in SB > > Dave Cole wrote: > > > folks: > > > > the b&o museum has released a set of pictures from inside the > > roundhouse, that give you a graphic idea of the extent of the damage > > that the crash of the snow-laden roof caused. > > > > http://www.borail.org/roundhouse_restoration/ > > > > \dmc > > > >
Re: OT: b&o museum latest pictures
It would seem a crime that the roundhouse wasn't designed to withstand anticipatable snow loads without risking irreplaceable artifacts (trains). But maybe these snow loads were outside the 100 year limits. Were they ? royce in SB Dave Cole wrote: folks: the b&o museum has released a set of pictures from inside the roundhouse, that give you a graphic idea of the extent of the damage that the crash of the snow-laden roof caused. http://www.borail.org/roundhouse_restoration/ \dmc
