Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)
Hi, On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote: There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public ip, that's why I'm asking Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without having to include a TURN stack, thats a win on my book. Besides, this is a trivial XEP. The C2S already has your IP address, so its easier to ask your server for it. Bye, -- Pedro Melo http://www.simplicidade.org/ xmpp:m...@simplicidade.org mailto:m...@simplicidade.org
Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)
FYI: STUN and TURN are two separate mechanisms. What are the requirements for the client when Jingle is used? Pedro Melo wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote: There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public ip, that's why I'm asking Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without having to include a TURN stack, thats a win on my book. Besides, this is a trivial XEP. The C2S already has your IP address, so its easier to ask your server for it. Bye,
Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)
Hi, On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Hannes Tschofenig hannes.tschofe...@gmx.net wrote: FYI: STUN and TURN are two separate mechanisms. I meant STUN, sorry. Bye, -- Pedro Melo http://www.simplicidade.org/ xmpp:m...@simplicidade.org mailto:m...@simplicidade.org
Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)
On Saturday 06 March 2010 01:33:25 Pedro Melo wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote: There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public ip, that's why I'm asking Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without having to include a [STUN] stack, thats a win on my book. I don't think obtaining your external IP address alone is all that useful anymore. Years ago, I could have seen it being an aid to those who were port forwarding (e.g. with XEP-65), and back then even I was strongly desiring such an extension. That's how the earlier protocols like ICQ and AIM worked, too, so it made sense to want to mirror the state of the art. However, these days I'm starting to think that all of our p2p activity should be UDP-based and/or configurationless, and that port-forwarding is a concept from the stone age. Google has it right. -Justin
Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)
On 6 March 2010 18:12, Justin Karneges justin-keyword-jabber.093...@affinix.com wrote: On Saturday 06 March 2010 01:33:25 Pedro Melo wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote: There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public ip, that's why I'm asking Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without having to include a [STUN] stack, thats a win on my book. I don't think obtaining your external IP address alone is all that useful anymore. Years ago, I could have seen it being an aid to those who were port forwarding (e.g. with XEP-65), and back then even I was strongly desiring such an extension. That's how the earlier protocols like ICQ and AIM worked, too, so it made sense to want to mirror the state of the art. I don't feel that any of these amount to an argument to not accept and publish the XEP. People want this, it's trivial to do, we should standardize a way of doing it. Done. Now this XEP isn't telling people not to use STUN, TURN, UDP or Jingle... it's for the people who don't want or need to use those technologies (perhaps for the moment). I don't feel we should be limiting what people want to do with XMPP, or how they should build their applications. Matthew
Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)
As noted in the XEP, the server actually returns what it perceives to be the client's IP address. What the security considerations miss is that doing so may unintentionally cause disclose information about the network information the server operates in. Server operators likely don't want to enable this if their server sits behind a reverse NAT (or some sort of ALG/proxy) as it would disclose the inside IP address of that reverse NAT. Even if that isn't a security consider for the server operator, that IP address is likely not what the client wanted. -- Kurt On Mar 5, 2010, at 10:53 AM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote: Version 0.1 of XEP-0279 (Server IP Check) has been released. Abstract: This specification defines a simple XMPP extension that enables a client to discover its external IP address. Changelog: Initial published version. (psa) Diff: N/A URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0279.html
[Standards] Comments on SIFT
While implementing mod_sift for Prosody, I saw some possibilities for improvement and had thoughts about issues. Some of these follow. 1. Remove disallowed child elements for filtered messages and presence. Here's a typical identi.ca message: message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB ... [23931040]/body html xmlns=http://jabber.org/protocol/xhtml-im; body xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; : RT @doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB ... a href=http://identi.ca/evan;evan/a span class=vcard a title=Stuart Langridge class=url href=http://identi.ca/user/279; span class=fn nicknamesil/span /a /span a href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046#notice-23931040;[23931040]/a /body /html entry xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; source titleevan - Identi.ca/title link href=http://identi.ca/evan; / link rel=self type=application/atom+xml href=http://identi.ca/evan; / link rel=license href=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/; / iconhttp://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg/icon /source titleRT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB .../title author nameevan/name urihttp://identi.ca/user/1/uri /author actor xmlns=http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/; object-typehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/person/object-type id xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;http://identi.ca/user/1/id title xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;Evan Prodromou/title link rel=alternate type=text/html href=http://identi.ca/evan; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=353 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=353 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-353-20090819204502.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=96 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=96 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=48 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=48 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-48-20090819204503.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=24 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=24 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-24-20090819204503.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / point xmlns=http://www.georss.org/georss;45.5088375 -73.587809/point preferredUsername xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;evan/preferredUsername displayName xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Evan Prodromou/displayName note xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Montreal hacker and entrepreneur. Founder of identi.ca, lead developer of StatusNet, CEO of StatusNet Inc./note address xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0; formattedMontreal, Quebec, Canada/formatted /address urls xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0; typehomepage/type valuehttp://evan.prodromou.name//value primarytrue/primary /urls /actor link rel=alternate type=text/html href=http://identi.ca/notice/23931040; / idhttp://identi.ca/notice/23931040/id published2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/published updated2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/updated link rel=ostatus:conversation href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046; / forward ref=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915; href=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915; xmlns=http://ostatus.org/schema/1.0; / content type=htmlRT @span class=vcarda href=http://identi.ca/user/279; class=url title=Stuart Langridgespan class=fn nicknamesil/span/a/span doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB .../content /entry /message Look at the size of that. Should I laugh or cry? This should be reduced to: message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB ... [23931040]/body /message for mobile clients. That's roughly 6% of the original (~4,257 bytes reduced to ~262 bytes). I think without this behavior, message filtering is pretty useless. Useless fact: Watching offline messages from identi.ca using up bandwidth in slow motion (slow, expensive GPRS with payment based on bandwidth usage) is what got mod_sift for Prosody started. 2. Offline messages. A SIFT
Re: [Standards] Comments on SIFT
interesting - I've built a variation on this for offline messages, but allowing quite complex allow criteria. I couldnt make xmpp do it (I'm not saying xmpp couldnt, but just that I couldnt figure out how) as my case seemed to require altered routing rules and a few other issues surrounding my frequent, but momentary presence requirement, so I ended up just using xmpp as a transport. Cheers. Waqas Hussain wrote: While implementing mod_sift for Prosody, I saw some possibilities for improvement and had thoughts about issues. Some of these follow. 1. Remove disallowed child elements for filtered messages and presence. Here's a typical identi.ca message: message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB ... [23931040]/body html xmlns=http://jabber.org/protocol/xhtml-im; body xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; : RT @doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB ... a href=http://identi.ca/evan;evan/a span class=vcard a title=Stuart Langridge class=url href=http://identi.ca/user/279; span class=fn nicknamesil/span /a /span a href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046#notice-23931040;[23931040]/a /body /html entry xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; source titleevan - Identi.ca/title link href=http://identi.ca/evan; / link rel=self type=application/atom+xml href=http://identi.ca/evan; / link rel=license href=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/; / iconhttp://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg/icon /source titleRT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB .../title author nameevan/name urihttp://identi.ca/user/1/uri /author actor xmlns=http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/; object-typehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/person/object-type id xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;http://identi.ca/user/1/id title xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;Evan Prodromou/title link rel=alternate type=text/html href=http://identi.ca/evan; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=353 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=353 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-353-20090819204502.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=96 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=96 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=48 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=48 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-48-20090819204503.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=24 xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=24 href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-24-20090819204503.jpeg; xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; / point xmlns=http://www.georss.org/georss;45.5088375 -73.587809/point preferredUsername xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;evan/preferredUsername displayName xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Evan Prodromou/displayName note xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Montreal hacker and entrepreneur. Founder of identi.ca, lead developer of StatusNet, CEO of StatusNet Inc./note address xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0; formattedMontreal, Quebec, Canada/formatted /address urls xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0; typehomepage/type valuehttp://evan.prodromou.name//value primarytrue/primary /urls /actor link rel=alternate type=text/html href=http://identi.ca/notice/23931040; / idhttp://identi.ca/notice/23931040/id published2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/published updated2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/updated link rel=ostatus:conversation href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046; / forward ref=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915; href=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915; xmlns=http://ostatus.org/schema/1.0; / content type=htmlRT @span class=vcarda href=http://identi.ca/user/279; class=url title=Stuart Langridgespan class=fn nicknamesil/span/a/span doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB .../content /entry /message Look at the size of that. Should I laugh or cry? This should be reduced to: message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have