RE: Nought at noon
Steve, Bob, and everyone, I do not think I have ever seen 0 on a sundial, nor on a clock. I seem to remember a sundial which had an Arabic 12 with all other numerals Roman - or was it vice versa? - but cannot think where. I would say that in England the simple cross + or cross pattee (more like the Iron Cross) is by far the most common other noon mark and at a rough guess is on 10 or 20 percent of old vertical dials; I don't recall seeing it on a horizontal dial. I can only think of two other marks for noon: at Holy Sepulchre, Holborn Viaduct, London, c 1670, there is a St Andrew's Cross X; and at Dorstone near Hay-On-Wye, Hereford, there is an interesting double sided equatorial dial dated 1823 (from memory) with what looks like a fleur-de-lys for summer noon though it is in somewhat rusty cast iron and I'm not absolutely sure how to interpret it. Andrew James N 51 04 23 W 01 17 46
RE: Nought at noon
I do not think I have ever seen 0 on a sundial, nor on a clock. I seem to remember a sundial which had an Arabic 12 with all other numerals Roman - or was it vice versa? - but cannot think where. a 0 together with roman numerals doesn't sound logic: the romans did not know the number 0 ! - T. M. Taudin-Chabot, home email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (attachments max 500kB, in case of larger attachments contact me)
RE: Nought at noon
At 10:40 AM 7/19/00 +0100, Andrew James wrote: Steve, Bob, and everyone, I do not think I have ever seen 0 on a sundial, nor on a clock. The dial on my deck rail has a nought for noon. It is a standard garden shop horizontal dial, a cheap imported brass casting given to me years ago by a relative who knew I was interested dials. My only modification is to tilt it 11 degrees to correct for latitude. The pattern must have been copied from an original design that used nought for noon. I would be interested to learn the source of the original. Roger Bailey Walking Shadow Designs n 51 W 115
Nought at noon
I have recently seen a couple of dials which use a nought (a digit zero) in place of XII, whereas the rest of the hour labels are in their usual roman numeral forms. In other words, they run VI, VII...XI, 0, I, II...VI. One dial is from the 1950s and the other from the 1960s. They are both located in Nova Scotia and presumably made in Canada or USA. I don't know the makers of either, but I'm sure they are not made by the same company since the quality and designs are so different. I've never seen this done on a clock, it's not a bona fide roman number, and I can't think of any reason not to mark it as the 12th hour. Why does 0 appear, and is it common practice to use it? I read in the BSS Glossary that a cross (looking like an Iron Cross, or as five dots) is sometimes used in older sundials to indicate the noon position. Are there any other symbols in use? Cheers, Steve Steve's Site is at http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/steve.lelievre
Re: Nought at noon
Hi All, Steve Lelievre wrote: I have recently seen a couple of dials which use a nought (a digit zero) in place of XII,... I've never seen this done on a clock,... I am a clockmaker. I have repaired a lot of clocks and I have never seen it on a clock either. I suggest that the proximity of the hour lines near noon combined with XII being such a wide Roman numeral may have led the makers to use a 0 just for spacing. Bob
Re: Nought at noon
Steve, I believe I have seen this use of 0 for noon very occasionally on English vertical dials - although at the moment I can't think where! I believe Bob Terwilliger is right - it's done for spacing reasons, and possibly the maker isn't religious! John --- Dr J R Davis Flowton, UK 52.08N, 1.043E email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Steve Lelievre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sundial mailing list sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: 18 July 2000 15:29 Subject: Nought at noon I have recently seen a couple of dials which use a nought (a digit zero) in place of XII, whereas the rest of the hour labels are in their usual roman numeral forms. In other words, they run VI, VII...XI, 0, I, II...VI. One dial is from the 1950s and the other from the 1960s. They are both located in Nova Scotia and presumably made in Canada or USA. I don't know the makers of either, but I'm sure they are not made by the same company since the quality and designs are so different. I've never seen this done on a clock, it's not a bona fide roman number, and I can't think of any reason not to mark it as the 12th hour. Why does 0 appear, and is it common practice to use it? I read in the BSS Glossary that a cross (looking like an Iron Cross, or as five dots) is sometimes used in older sundials to indicate the noon position. Are there any other symbols in use? Cheers, Steve Steve's Site is at http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/steve.lelievre
Re: Nought at noon
Bob, Steve, et. al., I have no knowledge of the origin of the practice of using zero to mark noon, but there is as much logic as for twelve, since it is the beginning, or zero, for P. M. hours, and so can be expected to precede hours 1, 2, etc.. by an hour, especially with the sun's meridian passage as specific reference in P.M. (post meridiem.) Sciagraphically, Bill I have recently seen a couple of dials which use a nought (a digit zero) in place of XII,... I've never seen this done on a clock,...
