Re: [Sursound] Questions on Ambisonics and space / VR Radio Theater
Hi Martin I've done my dissertation based on how to practically tell a story using only spatial audio. You can check out my full paper here https://www.academia.edu/33968228/Practical_use_of_Spatial_Audio_for_Storytelling comprehensive of tools used, psychoacoustics aspects and so on. I did avoid binaural tho, I prefer a multichannel loudspeaker system to reproduce something like this. You can create convincing soundscapes combining simple ambisonics beds and groups of sound particles (check out the software Sound Particles, free for one year for students). Reverb is so important in this case, I used Spat for Max for the spatialisation, combined with Reaper for editing. How many people are going to experience it in once? Have a quick read to the paper and let me know, I'm more then happy to help. Cheers Axel On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 at 18:14, Sampo Syreeni <de...@iki.fi> wrote: > On 2017-09-21, Martin . wrote: > > > What processes do sound designers here use to design realistic > > ambisonic spaces? > > Unfortunately I'm no sound designer, or even practitioner, but I'll > still but in with a bit of basic theory. I hope you don't mind... ;) > > > Do you record it all with tetrahedral microphones? > > I'm reasonably certain that is the exception. Obviously, because > ambisonic is precisely the only end-to-end system in existence which > enables systematic capture of soundscapes, people who do such acoustic > work will be over-represented amongst the system's afficionados. But it > still remains the fact that true soundfield mics are expensive, as are > the musicians playing to them. As such the easiest, least expensive and > so the most common way to exercise the machinery remains doing it > in-studio. > > > Are there good reverb solutions to achieve this with mono recordings - > > or to enhance ambisonic recordings? Do you use conventional DAWs or > > also game engines like UE4 and Unity? > > It depends: do you just want to author audio, or do you want it to track > within a game? Ambisonic uniquely goes for both, equally, so again game > people will be over-represented among the doers. But quite certainly if > you just want to produce a static soundscape, using a game engine would > be overkill. > > As for reverb in production, especially including distance from a source > and its movement over time, that side of the picture hasn't really been > set in stone anywhere. > > Early work was content to just pan the direct sound, and maybe put in > some Schroeder kinda artificial reverb into the W channel. As for > distance, panning between W and XYZ was used as a quick and dirty fix. > > What you really want to do instead is much more complicated. First, > you'll want to maximally decorrelate the reverb over the channels, so > that you'll end up with proper envelopment. For a synthetically panned > source that calls for four mutually decorrelated reverb lines, running > from the source to WXYZ (and more, if going to an higher order). You'd > want to add early slap echoes from walls and other obstacles, just as > you do in stereo reverb modelling, only now panned to come from all > around. If your sound source is moving, you'd want to model Doppler > effects with a delay line, and perhaps even go as far as to model > Doppler in the strongest early echoes as well. Then if you *really* > wanted to go hyperrealistic, you'd want to model near field effects at > least for any close sources and/or echoes. > > No current software does all of that, be it DAW or game like. As is > usually the case, we bump into the fact that even plain old ambisonic, > despite its age, remains hitech which is under development. Its full > potential has yet to be unleashed, so that if you aim at the limit, > you'll still often have to roll your own. > -- > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > +358-40-3255353 <http://decoy.iki.fi/front+358-40-3255353>, 025E D175 > ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Axel Drioli Immersive Audio Designer, Editor and Mixer / Music recording and mixing engineer Tel: +44 7460 223640 - Skype : axel.drioli Concept Creator // Spatial Audio Producer, Designer and Mixer of Eridanus, the 3D Audio Movie. www.facebook.com/eridanus3dsound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170921/8bef3261/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Questions on Ambisonics and space / VR Radio Theater
On 2017-09-21, Martin . wrote: What processes do sound designers here use to design realistic ambisonic spaces? Unfortunately I'm no sound designer, or even practitioner, but I'll still but in with a bit of basic theory. I hope you don't mind... ;) Do you record it all with tetrahedral microphones? I'm reasonably certain that is the exception. Obviously, because ambisonic is precisely the only end-to-end system in existence which enables systematic capture of soundscapes, people who do such acoustic work will be over-represented amongst the system's afficionados. But it still remains the fact that true soundfield mics are expensive, as are the musicians playing to them. As such the easiest, least expensive and so the most common way to exercise the machinery remains doing it in-studio. Are there good reverb solutions to achieve this with mono recordings - or to enhance ambisonic recordings? Do you use conventional DAWs or also game engines like UE4 and Unity? It depends: do you just want to author audio, or do you want it to track within a game? Ambisonic uniquely goes for both, equally, so again game people will be over-represented among the doers. But quite certainly if you just want to produce a static soundscape, using a game engine would be overkill. As for reverb in production, especially including distance from a source and its movement over time, that side of the picture hasn't really been set in stone anywhere. Early work was content to just pan the direct sound, and maybe put in some Schroeder kinda artificial reverb into the W channel. As for distance, panning between W and XYZ was used as a quick and dirty fix. What you really want to do instead is much more complicated. First, you'll want to maximally decorrelate the reverb over the channels, so that you'll end up with proper envelopment. For a synthetically panned source that calls for four mutually decorrelated reverb lines, running from the source to WXYZ (and more, if going to an higher order). You'd want to add early slap echoes from walls and other obstacles, just as you do in stereo reverb modelling, only now panned to come from all around. If your sound source is moving, you'd want to model Doppler effects with a delay line, and perhaps even go as far as to model Doppler in the strongest early echoes as well. Then if you *really* wanted to go hyperrealistic, you'd want to model near field effects at least for any close sources and/or echoes. No current software does all of that, be it DAW or game like. As is usually the case, we bump into the fact that even plain old ambisonic, despite its age, remains hitech which is under development. Its full potential has yet to be unleashed, so that if you aim at the limit, you'll still often have to roll your own. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] Questions on Ambisonics and space / VR Radio Theater
Hi List, I have lurked here for a while searching the great archive that is this list. This is my first post here as a beginner in Ambisonics. I am a sound designer working on a "VR Radio Theater" project (with no visual elements). Listeners will be wearing headphones with head trackers and receive binaural audio. My plan is to play back the sound in SuperCollider which can process the ambisonic signal as well as the head tracking data, on a Raspberry Pi or similar mini computer. At the moment I'm using Reaper and the ATK library to design the soundscapes, but I am starting to understand that ambisonics has very different rules when it comes to creating a sense of space, especially realistic ones, and this is what I would very much like some advice on. An example would be two people talking and moving about the room that you as a listener is sitting in the middle of. What processes do sound designers here use to design realistic ambisonic spaces? Do you record it all with tetrahedral microphones? Are there good reverb solutions to achieve this with mono recordings - or to enhance ambisonic recordings? Do you use conventional DAWs or also game engines like UE4 and Unity? The project is still pending funding so I am interested to hear both low-budget and more expensive approaches. Thank you all for reading. Martin -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170921/4c2c3a44/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Getting rid of a Lake HURON
Cor, that brings back memories of bunches of 56000 DSP's keeping my office warm at York in the early 90's. This was during the development phase of the National Centre for Popular Music (known by us as the National Car Park) the Sheffield based Lottery funded project which sadly ended up failing** On the better side there was hearing my first head-tracked binaural from FOA at Lake's stand at the VR93 conference in 1993. Good machine, needed a better development environment and a (much) lower price. Dave **well, if the least of the problems is that you let architects determine loudspeaker positions on the basis of what looks good (resulting in the lower ring of speakers being more or less at ear height instead of below people's feet as we had designed it) and not having dressing rooms when you want live acts to perform, things aren't going to go well. On 20 September 2017 at 18:55, Ben Claridge <b...@gsacoustics.org> wrote: > Hi, > > We are having a clear out and have come across our old Lake HURON which > has DSP cards for 16 channels of in/out. > I believe it is now 20 years old so a real ambisonics antique! > If anyone out there is interested in taking it off our hands and getting > it running again, please send me a message. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > GILLIERON SCOTT > > gsacoustics.org > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > nts/20170920/227c64a1/attachment.html> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170921/c8709439/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
