Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Sergio Manzi]

Hello Richard,

That's a totally different approach, and a I completely agree with you (/for 
the very little that that may matter.../).

Before (/hopefully/) closing the incident, please let me clarify that I was 
just dissenting with _the tone_ of the reply in question.

Regards,

Sergio


On 2019-02-15 17:55, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Sergio Manzi wrote:
>> I strongly dissent with the tone of your mail.
>> Everybody, not only you and the most vocifeferous ones, have the right to
>> express 
>> their opinion.
> They do, but if the opinion is off-topic and unconstructive for the list and
> likely to divert from the purpose of said list, then the list
> admins/moderators are within their rights to ask the thread to stop, and
> that's what I'm doing here.
>
> Ulrich, your comments are seriously off-topic for the tagging@ list. If you
> would like to continue the argument then I would suggest you use the talk@
> list. It won't get you anywhere, but who am I to tell someone not to bang
> their head repeatedly against a wall.
>
> If you do so, please learn to participate in a threaded discussion, either
> by replying to individual messages (not digests) or by using a web interface
> like Nabble that permits you to do so. Thank you.
>
> Richard
> tagging@ list admin
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Richard Fairhurst]

Sergio Manzi wrote:
> I strongly dissent with the tone of your mail.
> Everybody, not only you and the most vocifeferous ones, have the right to
> express 
> their opinion.

They do, but if the opinion is off-topic and unconstructive for the list and
likely to divert from the purpose of said list, then the list
admins/moderators are within their rights to ask the thread to stop, and
that's what I'm doing here.

Ulrich, your comments are seriously off-topic for the tagging@ list. If you
would like to continue the argument then I would suggest you use the talk@
list. It won't get you anywhere, but who am I to tell someone not to bang
their head repeatedly against a wall.

If you do so, please learn to participate in a threaded discussion, either
by replying to individual messages (not digests) or by using a web interface
like Nabble that permits you to do so. Thank you.

Richard
tagging@ list admin



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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Sergio Manzi]

On a mailing list, in a community, I can't imagine anything more rude and 
divisive than *publicly* telling someone that he can go away if he don't like 
things the way you (/and others, even the majority indeed/) like it, and that 
you are considering to block him/her *just for the opinions she/she express* 
(/mind you, not for the way he/she express it.../).


On 2019-02-14 14:02, Paul Allen wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 12:34, Sergio Manzi mailto:s...@smz.it>> 
> wrote:
>
> I strongly dissent with the tone of your mail.
>
> That is your right.  Even if you are strongly dissenting about somebody 
> expressing strong
> dissent, it is your right.
>
> Everybody, not only you and the most vocifeferous ones, have the right to 
> express their opinion.
>
>
> Indeed.  I strongly support everyone's right to express their opinion.  As 
> far as I am concerned,
> you can say whatever you want.  But you cannot force me, or anyone else, to 
> listen.  Interacting
> with others in a way that stops them listening to you is not an effective way 
> of getting your point
> across.  YMMV.
>
> You can dissent, but the tone of your mail is definitely rude and 
> divisive.
>
> Rude???  I refrained from giving my opinion of the guy (which is something 
> most people
> would consider to be extremely negative) and merely told him what options were
> available to him since he is dissatisfied with the current situation.  The 
> OSM community
> has given a great deal of thought to copyright issues to arrive at their 
> position and I don't
> see much chance of them moving to his position, a position they explicitly 
> state is (in
> their opinion) not tenable.
>
> His only feasible options are to live with what we have, stop mapping, set up 
> a competing project,
> or continue to rant incomprehensibly here.  Should he continue to rant here 
> then he's likely to
> end up in killfiles.  Telling him that isn't rude, it's advising him that he 
> is not doing himself any
> favours with his current behaviour.
>
> Think twice.
>
> I thought three times before I posted.  You would certainly have thought the 
> second version of my
> post to be extremely rude.  And you would have had a conniption fit over the 
> first version.  What I
> actually posted refrained from rebuking him and instead offered a stark, 
> unadorned explanation
> of the options open to him.
>
> -- 
> Paul
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Paul Allen]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 12:34, Sergio Manzi  wrote:

> I strongly dissent with the tone of your mail.
>
That is your right.  Even if you are strongly dissenting about somebody
expressing strong
dissent, it is your right.

> Everybody, not only you and the most vocifeferous ones, have the right to
> express their opinion.
>

Indeed.  I strongly support everyone's right to express their opinion.  As
far as I am concerned,
you can say whatever you want.  But you cannot force me, or anyone else, to
listen.  Interacting
with others in a way that stops them listening to you is not an effective
way of getting your point
across.  YMMV.

> You can dissent, but the tone of your mail is definitely rude and divisive.
>
Rude???  I refrained from giving my opinion of the guy (which is something
most people
would consider to be extremely negative) and merely told him what options
were
available to him since he is dissatisfied with the current situation.  The
OSM community
has given a great deal of thought to copyright issues to arrive at their
position and I don't
see much chance of them moving to his position, a position they explicitly
state is (in
their opinion) not tenable.

His only feasible options are to live with what we have, stop mapping, set
up a competing project,
or continue to rant incomprehensibly here.  Should he continue to rant here
then he's likely to
end up in killfiles.  Telling him that isn't rude, it's advising him that
he is not doing himself any
favours with his current behaviour.

> Think twice.
>
I thought three times before I posted.  You would certainly have thought
the second version of my
post to be extremely rude.  And you would have had a conniption fit over
the first version.  What I
actually posted refrained from rebuking him and instead offered a stark,
unadorned explanation
of the options open to him.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Sergio Manzi]

I strongly dissent with the tone of your mail.

Everybody, not only you and the most vocifeferous ones, have the right to 
express their opinion.

You can dissent, but the tone of your mail is definitely rude and divisive.

Think twice.

Regards,

Sergio


On 2019-02-14 12:45, Paul Allen wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 09:13, Ulrich Lamm  > wrote:
>
> Am 12.02.2019 um 05:59 schrieb tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
> :
>
> Rules according to the interests of commercial exploiters make our 
> mapping an unpaid labour for some landlords. 
> That is the opposite of freedom.
>
>
> You have the freedom not to map.  Nobody is forcing you to participate in a 
> project that you
> fundamentally disagree with.
>
> You have the freedom to set up your own alternative to OSM with your own 
> rules about permissible
> imports.  If you can justify it within your own tortured logic about 
> copyright, you can even use the
> OSM database as a foundation for your efforts.
>
> The rest of us have the freedom to set mail filters so your messages go 
> straight to the bit
> bucket, unread.  I don't know about others, but that option looks 
> increasingly tempting to me.
>
> -- 
> Paul
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Paul Allen]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 09:13, Ulrich Lamm  wrote:

> Am 12.02.2019 um 05:59 schrieb tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org:
>
> Rules according to the interests of commercial exploiters make our mapping
> an unpaid labour for some landlords.
> That is the opposite of freedom.
>

You have the freedom not to map.  Nobody is forcing you to participate in a
project that you
fundamentally disagree with.

You have the freedom to set up your own alternative to OSM with your own
rules about permissible
imports.  If you can justify it within your own tortured logic about
copyright, you can even use the
OSM database as a foundation for your efforts.

The rest of us have the freedom to set mail filters so your messages go
straight to the bit
bucket, unread.  I don't know about others, but that option looks
increasingly tempting to me.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 113, Issue 52 Co-ordinate sets vs. background informations = ODbL vs. CC

[Ulrich Lamm]

Am 12.02.2019 um 05:59 schrieb tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org:

>> the commercial exploiter has the choice either to sell a product 
>> without informations that are available for free,
>> or he has to pay.
>> 
> 
> Your method of including CC will mean not more use by commercial firms.

Rules according to the interests of commercial exploiters make our mapping an 
unpaid labour for some landlords. 
That is the opposite of freedom.

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