Re: [OSM-talk] 26 languages
2009/1/25 Colin McGregor > On 1/24/09, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Lars Aronsson wrote: > >> After Portuguese and Afrikaans have been added, there are now 28 > >> languages. But of the largest Wikipedia languages, we're still > >> missing Japanese (5th biggest) and Chinese (12th). > > > > Why bother educating the Chinese about OSM when they will be jailed > > trying to contribute? > Might be best not putting any Indian languages up though, mapping there will get you jailed, and may be best removing the English too, I wouldn't like to think what could happen or where you'd be sent if you were spotted doing something suspicious like walking around with a GPSr, a voice recorder, a camera and a backpack in at least the US, especially if you looked 'foreign'... There isn't even a great firewall in those locations to protect people from seeing things they shouldn't ;) > > The answer is simple and obvious, not all Chinese speaking people live > in China. I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and some 11% of the > population (over 280,000 people) is of Chinese decent, and relevant > for the likes of a Wikipedia entry, manages to support three daily > Chinese language newspapers... > > So, for the benefit of oversees Chinese a Wikipedia entry would be a > good thing (the more mappers the better in my books). > > There are 100s of thousands of Chinese students studying abroad... figures I've seen suggested 12 in the EU alone in 2007... The US, Canada and Australia are also common destinations for Chinese students looking to study abroad, with the US apparently having over 8 Chinese students in 2007-2008... Of course, there are stats such as this 'The number of people studying abroad totalled 1.2117 million from 1978 to 2007, among which 319,700 have already returned.' which suggests that between 1978 and 2007 1.2 million people went to study abroad and 90 haven't returned yet... So, there are plenty of Chinese people outside China who's first written language is Chinese... But, within China, while there has been the obvious press that people have been fined and expelled for illegal mapping, the stories are mostly specifically about foreign nationals who've entered China only to perform surveying, including surveying airports/airbases... China has massive amounts of effort going into mapping, with billions ($ I think) being put into projects in recent years to make accurate enough maps that they can be used with GPS devices... Not all the efforts are state based though... There is also a lot of mapping for profit going on... GPS devices are very popular with satnav in car devices very common... A pretty massive number of brands exist, all competing with very similar products, map data comes from all over the place and up to date POIs are typically seen as one of the most important aspects of the data, something especially relevant considering the rate of change and development... There and lots of companies involved, all trying to build their own dataset for profit... Some licensed, but most probably not... And this is just part of the situation with maps in China... A report last year some time said that there were over 1 websites in China that contained unauthorised maps, huge demand for mapping data and limited general availability of quality authorised data were I believe cited as a potential cause... 10 years ago there was not much in the way of publicly available maps, now there are maps everywhere... even on every street corner, at least in touristy places... Quality is still an obvious issue... Availability of data is still an issue, though state data is available more and more and is becoming more and more open, partly to encourage use of the official state data in preference to data from other sources... China's legal system is still growing, maturing and developing, like most things in China... Things are improving all the time... The place is not at all like is portrayed in most Hollywood movies, in many ways it's more free, open and in many cases commercial than you probably imagine... At the end of the day, for people in China, if the authorities don't want them to see a site on the internet, it'll get blocked... Wikipedia itself has been blocked for large amounts of time with the non-chinese versions coming and going and more recently the chinese version becoming available and staying available... There is still blocking of certain wikipedia pages where the content is deemed unsuitable either by the filtering software or the decision makers that control the filtering rules... So... If the information about OSM is put on wikipedia in Chinese, there are millions of people outside of mainland China that could find the translation useful, there are many more within China that could be interested to read about it even if they don't then go on to contribute and if it is considered to be unwanted by whichever people/departments make those choices, it'll get blocked from t
Re: [OSM-talk] mapping driveways
Ulf Lamping writes: > First of all, you should NEVER remove anything from the database, unless > you have made certain by your own eye that the object in question is an > error and not existing in reality! Even than take care not to remove > anything marked as abandoned or alike, that marks this object was once > here and the info is kept for historical reasons. Yes, renderers and other applications can then choose whether they want to use that information or not. > > Here in germany we are simply not asking if something should be > included! People in densely mapped areas are starting to map single > trees and litter bins - not all of us doing so, but that's not the point > here. > > How this should be tagged depends on what's on the ground. Please have a > look at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features > > It indicates to use highway=service together with service=driveway. > > Funnily enough, I don't have a clear understanding what a driveway > actually is, seems to be an american english specific term? It's typically a piece of pavement that connects the road with peoples garage door. Of course, the pavement and the garage are optional. In German I would probably say "Grundstückseinfahrt". Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 26 languages
On 1/24/09, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > Lars Aronsson wrote: >> After Portuguese and Afrikaans have been added, there are now 28 >> languages. But of the largest Wikipedia languages, we're still >> missing Japanese (5th biggest) and Chinese (12th). > > Why bother educating the Chinese about OSM when they will be jailed > trying to contribute? The answer is simple and obvious, not all Chinese speaking people live in China. I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and some 11% of the population (over 280,000 people) is of Chinese decent, and relevant for the likes of a Wikipedia entry, manages to support three daily Chinese language newspapers... So, for the benefit of oversees Chinese a Wikipedia entry would be a good thing (the more mappers the better in my books). Colin McGregor > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] uStream .tv broadcast 2pm PST 5pm EST - geobase import
Thanks, ya your right :) The show went good (IMO) as the question is now more apparent. For government/bulk imports -where we know that updates are available; how is it dealt with? The solution is this IMO: 1- take the latest OSM Data, as a file; the exact size area of the shape file to be imported. 2 - extract only the possable tags (if any) that are showing the same info as you want to have the new data shown as. 3 -convert the OSM to shape file 4 - make a backup of OSM file 5 -remove those same selected osm data OUT OF the osm database. 6 - using whatever postGIS program, look at both shape files, and see just how the 2 match up. 7 add osm tags the the whole thing. 8 use one of the bug finder tools to find duplicate data, and PERGE all the info together. 9 the result is a file that contains; new imported data with osm tags, untouched osm data (that no match was available), and perged data (osm & imported) 10 convert the file to OSM and upload to OSM. Please poke fun at the steps, :) cheers, Sam On 1/24/09, Thomas Wood wrote: > 2009/1/24 Sam Vekemans : >> In light of France getting the OK for post codes; Canada might also, >> so there needs to be a way to accomidate it. We should be able to >> update the geobase import talk page & post the unanswered questions. > > I thought it was Iceland with the postcodes, but France with the > official land registry maps, or something similar... > > -- > Regards, > Thomas Wood > (Edgemaster) > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 26 languages
Hi, Lars Aronsson wrote: > After Portuguese and Afrikaans have been added, there are now 28 > languages. But of the largest Wikipedia languages, we're still > missing Japanese (5th biggest) and Chinese (12th). Why bother educating the Chinese about OSM when they will be jailed trying to contribute? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapping driveways
Greg Troxel schrieb: > Sorry if this is on the wiki - I've tried to read the relevant parts. > > I live in a semi-rural area where there are a lot of long driveways. > Some of these show up on the map, mostly due to MassGIS bulk imports. > > For commercial places, and other places where the public might go, I've > set a few to these to service. An example is the access road to > Minuteman Airfield in Stow, MA, USA: > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.46068&lon=-71.51526&zoom=17&layers=0B00FTF > > But there are some that seem to be just some person's house, probably in > the databsae because it showed up on the aerial photo, and some that > just seem a bit goofy. An example is the unnamed way going SSE from > Crescent St.: > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.43777&lon=-71.5016&zoom=17&layers=0B00FTF > > Should I just remove these ways? They seem like clutter and not useful. > The USGS topo maps show very thin lines for driveways, so it's clear > they aren't real roads. Calling them service doesn't seem right. > > > So my real question boils down to: when there is an area perhaps 100m > long and 3m wide paved to get to a single house, should that be > represented, and how? How do we do this so it's clearly rendered > differently than a proper road. > First of all, you should NEVER remove anything from the database, unless you have made certain by your own eye that the object in question is an error and not existing in reality! Even than take care not to remove anything marked as abandoned or alike, that marks this object was once here and the info is kept for historical reasons. Here in germany we are simply not asking if something should be included! People in densely mapped areas are starting to map single trees and litter bins - not all of us doing so, but that's not the point here. How this should be tagged depends on what's on the ground. Please have a look at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features It indicates to use highway=service together with service=driveway. Funnily enough, I don't have a clear understanding what a driveway actually is, seems to be an american english specific term? Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mapping driveways
Sorry if this is on the wiki - I've tried to read the relevant parts. I live in a semi-rural area where there are a lot of long driveways. Some of these show up on the map, mostly due to MassGIS bulk imports. For commercial places, and other places where the public might go, I've set a few to these to service. An example is the access road to Minuteman Airfield in Stow, MA, USA: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.46068&lon=-71.51526&zoom=17&layers=0B00FTF But there are some that seem to be just some person's house, probably in the databsae because it showed up on the aerial photo, and some that just seem a bit goofy. An example is the unnamed way going SSE from Crescent St.: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.43777&lon=-71.5016&zoom=17&layers=0B00FTF Should I just remove these ways? They seem like clutter and not useful. The USGS topo maps show very thin lines for driveways, so it's clear they aren't real roads. Calling them service doesn't seem right. So my real question boils down to: when there is an area perhaps 100m long and 3m wide paved to get to a single house, should that be represented, and how? How do we do this so it's clearly rendered differently than a proper road. pgpBAuOMd6aTD.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] uStream .tv broadcast 2pm PST 5pm EST - geobase import
I dunno about Iceland, but you're right about France, it is the official land registry map that we got access to. Yann Le 24 janv. 09 à 23:30, Thomas Wood a écrit : > 2009/1/24 Sam Vekemans : >> In light of France getting the OK for post codes; Canada might also, >> so there needs to be a way to accomidate it. We should be able to >> update the geobase import talk page & post the unanswered questions. > > I thought it was Iceland with the postcodes, but France with the > official land registry maps, or something similar... > > -- > Regards, > Thomas Wood > (Edgemaster) > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] uStream .tv broadcast 2pm PST 5pm EST - geobase import
2009/1/24 Sam Vekemans : > In light of France getting the OK for post codes; Canada might also, > so there needs to be a way to accomidate it. We should be able to > update the geobase import talk page & post the unanswered questions. I thought it was Iceland with the postcodes, but France with the official land registry maps, or something similar... -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 26 languages
2009/1/24 Lars Aronsson : > > Ten days ago, I wrote: >> > >> > Wikipedia's article about OpenStreetMap is now available in 26 >> > languages. The most recently added is a brief translation in >> > Swahili, the East African language. > > After Portuguese and Afrikaans have been added, there are now 28 > languages. But of the largest Wikipedia languages, we're still > missing Japanese (5th biggest) and Chinese (12th). Who can help > with this? > > English, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap > > Japanese, http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap > > Chinese, http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap > > Next in Wikipedia size without an OpenStreetMap article are > Catalan (Wikipedia's 15th largest language), Volapük (19), > Indonesian (25), Hebrew (26), Korean (27), Vietnamese (30), > Serbian (31), Bulgarian (33), and Persian (35). For comparison, > Swahili is the 89th largest language of Wikipedia, having 8400 > articles, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias > > Careful! Of course you will have to follow the rules of Wikipedia > and prove why this article is needed, relevant, sourced, etc. The fact that Japanese was missing was quite odd, since we have quite a few mappers there, afaik. I got a friend of mine to translate the first paragraph in attempt to lure some more translators in - http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/オープン・ストリート・マップ -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 26 languages
> Next in Wikipedia size without an OpenStreetMap article are Catalan... And here it is!! http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Regards, Lucas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] uStream .tv broadcast 2pm PST 5pm EST - geobase import
Hi all, if you happen to be around at 2pm PST i'll be hosting a show on uStream.tv Todays topic is about the GeoBase NID, we had some discussion on the talk-ca list, so its worth reviewing. (i cc'd to main talk list, as ideas are welcome from everywhere) In light of France getting the OK for post codes; Canada might also, so there needs to be a way to accomidate it. We should be able to update the geobase import talk page & post the unanswered questions. If the feedback is good, i'll plan another broadcast with a few weeks notice. Same channel as last time search 'across canada trails' Cheers, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] osmrender.pl version 2 published
hi, although the program will probably never be finished I published version 2. please adapt to your needs! version 2 creates - SVG files - street names example here: http://www.gary68.de/osm/hof.svg have fun downloads http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Gary68 dokumentation here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmrender.pl http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmgraph.pm gerhard gary68 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Open Data Licence (Re: 23rd Dec board meeting)
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:30:19AM +, Peter Miller wrote: > OSM Open Data License > There are many comments already on legal-talk that I won't repeat here. I > do however note from the minutes that "all communications with Jordan had > broken down". Also that "No hosting option for the licence is currently > available and therefore OSMF may need to host". These seems to indicate > that there is a lot more work to be done. > > I note that "Steve [is] reluctant to publish publicly as it would > invite another round of changes ... Henk asked about getting support > from major contributors. Nick and Andy felt it was against the spirit of > the project to treat some contributors as having special status." I can’t help but think it would be more with the spirit of the project to have open development of the licence, and that it would have been beneficial if this had been an open development much earlier. By having a closed development process, and publishing drafts for review, OSMF have forced the process to involve rounds of consultation. Had development been open, it would have benefitted from continual input from the community. The same input that we have been trying to provide with the development of use cases, wiki pages about the licence and how it should work, without even knowing what the current state of the licence is. Allowing all contributors to provide input on the development is also a fair way to avoid some having special status. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Relation:type=route_instruction
Hi, Just a quick mail to announce that the following proposal is now in the RFC stage, comments are of course welcome! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:type%3Droute_instruction Yann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 26 languages
Ten days ago, I wrote: > > > > Wikipedia's article about OpenStreetMap is now available in 26 > > languages. The most recently added is a brief translation in > > Swahili, the East African language. After Portuguese and Afrikaans have been added, there are now 28 languages. But of the largest Wikipedia languages, we're still missing Japanese (5th biggest) and Chinese (12th). Who can help with this? English, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Japanese, http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Chinese, http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap Next in Wikipedia size without an OpenStreetMap article are Catalan (Wikipedia's 15th largest language), Volapük (19), Indonesian (25), Hebrew (26), Korean (27), Vietnamese (30), Serbian (31), Bulgarian (33), and Persian (35). For comparison, Swahili is the 89th largest language of Wikipedia, having 8400 articles, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias Careful! Of course you will have to follow the rules of Wikipedia and prove why this article is needed, relevant, sourced, etc. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
