Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 23:14:53 +
"Dave F."  wrote:

> The name of the company is McDonalds, so anything belonging to them 
> should be McDonalds's.

The correct grammar for that would be McDonalds'


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[OSM-talk] webmap that plots coordinates and output gpx tracks

[maning sambale]

Suggestions on what webmap to use for a set of coordinates and then
provides a download of gpx track.  In the past I use yournavigation
but it can't find a route for my current set of points.  In addition,
the planet it is using is quite old (Nov 2010).  I'm considering the
use of MapQuest, but I can't find a way to put lat/lon and get the
output as GPX in the interface.

-- 
cheers,
maning
--
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites

[Steve Bennett]

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Antony Pegg  wrote:
> knowing the amazing diligence of this community, I'm sure you guys will find
> tags we've missed that should or could be used for bike/pedestrian.  If you
> feel its worth mentioning, please please please provide some point of
> reference so we can eyeball it - a wayID, or a link to a route on the open
> mapquest site where it isnt going thru a feature you think it should.

Welcome to the lion's den. :) The whole bike/pedestrian path thing is
quite complicated, mostly because the rules are different in different
countries, and many people (myself included) have difficulty
understanding that the assumptions they make in their own country
don't hold up elsewhere.

The most useful info is here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions

The point being that "highway=cycleway" is ok for pedestrians in some
countries (notably, Australia) and not in others (notably, Germany).
Similarly highway=footway is ok for bicycles in some countries and not
in others.

Some useful links:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Access
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:path

Anyway, just did a quick test:
http://open.mapquest.com/embed?hk=4-QgRUXMaY

I'm shocked. That's almost the exact route I took yesterday. With
cloudmade, I had to add 3 waypoints. Obviously Mapquest rates bike
paths a lot more highly than Cloudmade does (which is good!). Looks
like we're going to be good friends.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Anthony]

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Dave F.  wrote:
> The name of the company is McDonalds, so anything belonging to them should
> be McDonalds's.

http://www.facebook.com/McDonalds?v=photos

"McDonald's's Photos"  LOL

Of course, the correct way is to punt, like Wikipedia:  "The
McDonald's Corporation's business model is slightly different from
that of most other fast-food chains."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Anthony]

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Dave F.  wrote:
> http://www.apostropheabuse.com/2007/11/abuse-from-mcdonalds.html

I agree that there's an apostrophe in that ad that shouldn't be there.
 But it's not in "McDonald's".

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites

[Jean-Marc Liotier]

john whelan wrote:
A possible task on the OSM side is to check the tags on footways through 
parks.  Some cities allow bicycles to use them but it needs local 
knowledge


Allow, tolerate, don't actively forbid ? I tend to rather encode local 
custom instead of a strict interpretation of the law... But I guess that 
this is subject to debate - though I have not searched the mailing list 
archives for clues.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Steve Doerr]

On 04/03/2011 23:14, Dave F. wrote:


The name of the company is McDonalds


What's your evidence for that? The contact page on their web site gives 
the company name as McDonald's Corporation.


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Dave F.]

On 04/03/2011 22:29, Alan Mintz wrote:

At 2011-03-04 10:54, Dave F. wrote:

On 04/03/2011 15:17, Toby Murray wrote:

Talking about it on IRC, someone noticed that the same user did a
similar thing with WalMart ->  Walmart which also resulted in the same
error.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7454666


Just to be clear -  McDonald's (with a possessive apostrophe) is 
correct when used for the infamous burger chain:


http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/websites.html

Yes, I know it shouldn't have, but that's the way they want it


What do you mean? The fictional character is Ronald McDonald, and it's 
his joint, so possessive is appropriate, no?


http://www.apostropheabuse.com/2007/11/abuse-from-mcdonalds.html

The creation of the (v. scary) clown came after the creation of the 
'restaurant'.


Neither Starbucks not Walmart have one.

The name of the company is McDonalds, so anything belonging to them 
should be McDonalds's.


The user also amended drive_through to drive_thru, but has since 
reverted those.


Is drive_through=yes the accepted tag now? When I started, I couldn't 
find one, so I emulated the access=* style and used motorcar=yes on 
any amenity=fast_food|restaurant that has a drive-through. I tag 
motorcar=no on amenity=fast_food that specifically doesn't have it, 
but do not tag anything on amenity=restaurant (since most of what I 
consider restaurants would need to be tagged "no"). Should these be 
changed?


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:drive_thru

It reminded be to check up on taginfo for 'donuts'. There's over 130 
of them (excluding names).


I'm surprised that's all. As you point out, it is acceptable enough 
that it is often used in names.


Yes, but *not* as a part of shop= or cuisine=. That's just pain wrong.


Can anyone think of any other crude labelling that should be corrected?


Now that's funny. Last time I looked at TW, I was exhausted before I 
got to about ak*.


I'm not surprised, but I was think any obvious ones off the top of your 
head.


Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites

[john whelan]

A possible task on the OSM side is to check the tags on footways through
parks.  Some cities allow bicycles to use them but it needs local knowledge,
perhaps a project of the week?  As we start to get more routing made
available so having the right tags on footways and cycle paths becomes more
important.

Cheerio John

On 4 March 2011 09:04, Antony Pegg  wrote:

> HI all,
>
> just a quick note - we've added bicycle and pedestrian routing options to
> the MapQuest Open sites
>
> more details here:
> http://blog.mapquest.com/2011/03/03/open-routing-options-expanded/
>
> couple known things:
>  - We've already discovered highway=bridleway not included - we've updated
> the base code already, but it requires a re-conversion from scratch, so
> it'll take a week or two before bridleways get picked up
>
>  - if you're familiar with the underlying services from
> http://open.mapquestapi.com you'll notice that neither the elevation
> service, nor use of the cyclingRoadFactor parameter are in the UI yet -
> that'll come later
>
> knowing the amazing diligence of this community, I'm sure you guys will
> find tags we've missed that should or could be used for bike/pedestrian.  If
> you feel its worth mentioning, please please please provide some point of
> reference so we can eyeball it - a wayID, or a link to a route on the open
> mapquest site where it isnt going thru a feature you think it should.
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Ant (The Limey)
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Alan Mintz]

At 2011-03-04 10:54, Dave F. wrote:

On 04/03/2011 15:17, Toby Murray wrote:

Talking about it on IRC, someone noticed that the same user did a
similar thing with WalMart ->  Walmart which also resulted in the same
error.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7454666


Just to be clear -  McDonald's (with a possessive apostrophe) is correct 
when used for the infamous burger chain:


http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/websites.html

Yes, I know it shouldn't have, but that's the way they want it


What do you mean? The fictional character is Ronald McDonald, and it's his 
joint, so possessive is appropriate, no?


I very carefully created a fast food preset that I use daily, looking at 
signs and websites to determine exact spelling and punctuation of the 
names, only to now find out that JOSM silently ignores single quotes in 
preset values (i.e. name="McDonald's" tags name=McDonalds) :(. I've updated 
the wiki page to document the unusual escaping methodology (' must be 
represented by '') and "fixed" my presets. At some point, I will probably 
entertain a bulk data fix, but I'll be sure to talk about it first.



The user also amended drive_through to drive_thru, but has since reverted 
those.


Is drive_through=yes the accepted tag now? When I started, I couldn't find 
one, so I emulated the access=* style and used motorcar=yes on any 
amenity=fast_food|restaurant that has a drive-through. I tag motorcar=no on 
amenity=fast_food that specifically doesn't have it, but do not tag 
anything on amenity=restaurant (since most of what I consider restaurants 
would need to be tagged "no"). Should these be changed?



It reminded be to check up on taginfo for 'donuts'. There's over 130 of 
them (excluding names).


I'm surprised that's all. As you point out, it is acceptable enough that it 
is often used in names.




Can anyone think of any other crude labelling that should be corrected?


Now that's funny. Last time I looked at TW, I was exhausted before I got to 
about ak*.


--
Alan Mintz 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Toby Murray]

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> User says sorry, has reverted some things himself and asked me to revert the
> rest which I'm doing right now.

Great! Glad the problem has been corrected quickly.

Toby

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[OSM-talk] SSL endpoint for OpenStreetMap API?

[Samat K Jain]

Is there an SSL endpoint for the OpenStreetMap API? I.e. I tried to use:

  https://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6

To upload my changes from Merkaartor, but I get HTTP Error 400 when trying to 
use this endpoint.

My ISP has some kind of caching HTTP proxy that mangles requests (this can't be 
too uncommon?), so my uploads with the non-SSL API fail (error 400, 403, 500, 
etc). I either go to a coffee shop to upload, or use an SSH tunnel which lately 
has been unconvenient and unreliable. If the OSM API was available over SSL, I 
could bypass that caching proxy. Are there any easy solutions for me/others in 
the same boat?

-- 
Samat K Jain  | GPG: 0x4A456FBA

All the passions make us commit faults; love makes us commit the most 
ridiculous ones.
-- La Rochefoucauld (422)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Frederik Ramm wrote:

I think the recent McDonald's changeset may need reverting or at least
additional editing:


http://www.openstreetmap.org/blocks/39


User says sorry, has reverted some things himself and asked me to revert 
the rest which I'm doing right now.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Dave F.]

On 04/03/2011 15:17, Toby Murray wrote:

Talking about it on IRC, someone noticed that the same user did a
similar thing with WalMart ->  Walmart which also resulted in the same
error.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7454666


Just to be clear -  McDonald's (with a possessive apostrophe) is correct 
when used for the infamous burger chain:


http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/websites.html

Yes, I know it shouldn't have, but that's the way they want it


The user also amended drive_through to drive_thru, but has since 
reverted those.


It reminded be to check up on taginfo for 'donuts'. There's over 130 of 
them (excluding names).


Can anyone think of any other crude labelling that should be corrected?

Cheers
Dave F.





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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] all our addresses are belong to you

[Richard Weait]

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 3:55 PM, flambe...@gmail.com  wrote:
> MapQuest is providing several address files that contain user-provided
> latitude and longitude locations across the world. Our users provided
> these exact locations to us so that they could be mapped correctly on
> our MapQuest maps.

I like the idea of the user-contributed "please map me" addresses.

I like the idea of the map-bug type of "please fix me" bug reports.

But I wonder if we could get a higher quality of bug report by getting
a tighter connection to the reporter of the bug / request?  There have
been many reports of bugs with insufficient data, and now we are
seeing address requests with unclear references.  I wonder if
bug-reports, etc. with an included contact email would lead to better
results for the bug reporter and the OSMer who responds?  Might it
also lead to big reporters becoming OSM contributors?

It is left as a project for the reader to figure out a way to
helpfully connect bug reporters with bug squishers.  ;-)

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Re: [OSM-talk] all our addresses are belong to you

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2011/3/4 Alan Mintz :
> Is this data really worth importing?

I agree with all of your points. After checking my local area I
decided not to import this data, because some was apparently wrong,
the rest seemed not very detailed and might have been wrong at least
inaccurate. As the quantity was minimal (7 addresses for a city with
2.8M inhabitants) I decided it was not worth the risk.

cheers
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Toby Murray wrote:

I think the recent McDonald's changeset may need reverting or at least
additional editing:


http://www.openstreetmap.org/blocks/39

Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Does routing based on OSM data lead to a derived or assembled work?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

mg040 wrote:
Is the database containing all user's personal routes to be put under 
CC-BY?


CC-BY-SA, if anything.

The routes are clearly derived works from OSM data (because they will 
incorporate topology and even OSM geometry). However, if you just 
display the route to this one user, then the single route is CC-BY-SA, 
and the only person who has received the route is that one user - the 
user may now use the route under CC-BY-SA as they please, but that does 
not mean that you have to show this route (or your whole database) to 
other people as well.



How will change of licence will affect this scenario?


I'm not sure; my guess is that as long as you don't publicly use the 
database you can keep it under lock and key, but if you should start 
providing services to the public based on your database (e.g. "find 
routes that other people have traveled!") then you might have to make it 
available.


The picture might become clearer if you can tell us why you are storing 
the user's routes in a database.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[SomeoneElse]

Even apart from the node cockup, whilst it's possible that the 
perpetrator of this changeset has checked that every item changed did in 
fact sell processed dead cow, I suspect that that's unlikely.  For 
example, I note after a quick Google that "McDonalds Carpets & Rugs" 
spell their name without an apostrophe.


Most people here are extremely tolerant of people coming to the project 
anew and not quite understanding what they need to do first time, and 
are more than willing to help (see the huge amount of time people put 
into providing answers on the "help." site as an example of that), but 
this is someone who's been editing for a year.


Many years ago at work we used to have a "coding donkey" (a souvenir of 
someone's holiday long ago) which was passed around in response to 
recent embarrassing committed code.  Perhaps OSM needs something 
similar, a "muppet of the month" perhaps?


Cheers,
Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Toby Murray]

Talking about it on IRC, someone noticed that the same user did a
similar thing with WalMart -> Walmart which also resulted in the same
error.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7454666

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[OSM-talk] Another large edit gone wrong (McDonald's)

[Toby Murray]

I think the recent McDonald's changeset may need reverting or at least
additional editing:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7454383

It seems whoever did this did an XAPI query for all objects named
"McDonalds" then did CTRL-A and added/replaced the name with
"McDonald's"

A simple name cleanup. However this also tagged all member nodes of
building outlines with name=McDonald's which is very much an error.

Is this user on the mailing list?

Toby

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[OSM-talk] Bike / Pedestrian directions on the MQ Open sites

[Antony Pegg]

HI all,

just a quick note - we've added bicycle and pedestrian routing options to
the MapQuest Open sites

more details here:
http://blog.mapquest.com/2011/03/03/open-routing-options-expanded/

couple known things:
 - We've already discovered highway=bridleway not included - we've updated
the base code already, but it requires a re-conversion from scratch, so
it'll take a week or two before bridleways get picked up

 - if you're familiar with the underlying services from
http://open.mapquestapi.com you'll notice that neither the elevation
service, nor use of the cyclingRoadFactor parameter are in the UI yet -
that'll come later

knowing the amazing diligence of this community, I'm sure you guys will find
tags we've missed that should or could be used for bike/pedestrian.  If you
feel its worth mentioning, please please please provide some point of
reference so we can eyeball it - a wayID, or a link to a route on the open
mapquest site where it isnt going thru a feature you think it should.
Thanks.

Cheers,
Ant (The Limey)
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Re: [OSM-talk] all our addresses are belong to you

[Mike N]

On 3/3/2011 11:16 PM, Alan Mintz wrote:

Is this data really worth importing?


  With the required amount of review, I wouldn't classify them as a 
data import so much as a requested work list.   These addresses are 
important to the owners in some way: historically GPS's have gone to the 
wrong location, the road was misnamed, etc.   And many people set these 
locations as navigation / map search targets.   From the point of view 
that it is good to cater to those who consume OSM data, it is good to 
have these address points on the map.



Why should this data be any different? Why is dragging a point to the
nearest building and more correct that dragging it to the next block, or
the next town, if you don't know the feature personally?


   In at least one case I found, it would be wrong to drag it to the 
nearest building - and since it began in the middle of the road, you 
can't even tell which side it belongs.  This was probably a case of 
"GPS's always send my customers to the wrong place".   Most of these 
should be surveyed before import to meet the expected OSM quality level. 
  Only a few are clear from aerials alone - such as a church or school 
in a residential / rural area where it is the address in question.


   That brings up another point: workflow.   When / if someone decides 
to add the few addresses that they can survey, it would be good to mark 
them as having been "imported" and remove them from the master list. 
Otherwise it will be hard to find new reports when MapQuest publishes an 
update.   Throwing them up on MapDust / OSM Bugs would almost be 
appropriate, but I'd say they are a bit more informed than the average 
OSM Bugs / Mapdust report.


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