Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Am 03.04.2012 19:14, schrieb yvecai: Le 03/04/2012 18:56, Richard Fairhurst a écrit : Pieren wrote: we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft investing big dollars in OSM. [...] Where is the truth here ? I'm sure we'd all like to know! I'm not aware of any announcement being made or (say) any formal contact this year between Microsoft and OSMF. As I've seen no new informations in these articles, I'm inclined to think it's just a hype about the strategy war between the big 3 or something like that. Same for me here. I monitor different media streams for OSM press works and it looked very much like a hype. No investigation and nobody checked the informations, just copy :( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_media But nevertheless I would agree that Bing gave us a real boost in mapping countryside etc. Matthias (user:!i!) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Actually I fail to see any war going on, because Google can easily take our data, attribute accordingly and use them (with ODbL it will be even easier). For some unknown for me reason they still insist to use their own soup of data :) So Microsoft gave us Bing permission, and for that I say thank you. That's rare one from their list of their open source/open data efforts (I won't count forced by court releasing api docs for SMB/MAPI in good deeds, but still it was nice step from them to not to prolong that stupid case). 2012. gada 4. aprīlis 05:24 Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com rakstīja: Pieren writes: Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Hey, that's enough for me. I LOVES the Bing aerial imagery. Microsoft is welcome to take all the credit for helping us that they want to take. -- --my blog is at http://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
At 2012-04-03 19:24, Russ Nelson wrote: Pieren writes: Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Hey, that's enough for me. I LOVES the Bing aerial imagery. Microsoft is welcome to take all the credit for helping us that they want to take. I don't know about _that_, but I'll agree the Bing imagery _has_ been great and thank them for it. Nice to have (mostly) high-res, (mostly) well-aligned, well-served imagery as compared with previous MSRMaps, USGS, etc. solutions. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
On 04/04/2012 04:24, Russ Nelson wrote: Pieren writes: Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Hey, that's enough for me. I LOVES the Bing aerial imagery. Microsoft is welcome to take all the credit for helping us that they want to take. +1 to that. There's just one thing that is really important that crowd sourcing has difficulty in providing and that is extensive, easy to use aerial imagery. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: On 04/04/2012 04:24, Russ Nelson wrote: Pieren writes: Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Hey, that's enough for me. I LOVES the Bing aerial imagery. Microsoft is welcome to take all the credit for helping us that they want to take. +1 to that. There's just one thing that is really important that crowd sourcing has difficulty in providing and that is extensive, easy to use aerial imagery. Let's not forget about Yahoo imagery! I always thought the Bing imagery deal was just something Steve negotiated so he could get moral support from the OSM community for moving to Microsoft. Greets, Floris Looijesteijn ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Matthias Meißer wrote: Am 03.04.2012 19:14, schrieb yvecai: Le 03/04/2012 18:56, Richard Fairhurst a écrit : Pieren wrote: we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft investing big dollars in OSM. [...] Where is the truth here ? I'm sure we'd all like to know! I'm not aware of any announcement being made or (say) any formal contact this year between Microsoft and OSMF. As I've seen no new informations in these articles, I'm inclined to think it's just a hype about the strategy war between the big 3 or something like that. Same for me here. I monitor different media streams for OSM press works and it looked very much like a hype. No investigation and nobody checked the informations, just copy :( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_media But nevertheless I would agree that Bing gave us a real boost in mapping countryside etc. But it's not actually costing them anything? They would be putting the images up anyway, so THEY are the only ones who gain by getting back free vectorized data? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: But it's not actually costing them anything? They would be putting the images up anyway, so THEY are the only ones who gain by getting back free vectorized data? No donor to OSM gets special terms or access to the data. You and I donate data :: we get OSM data under the OSM License RichardF donates code :: he gets OSM data under the OSM License Yahoo! donated imagery for years :: they get OSM data under the OSM License MapQuest actual big money :: they get OSM data under the OSM License USGS donated PD data :: they get OSM data under the OSM License etc. Bing is now donating aerial imagery :: they get OSM data under the OSM License People consume OSM data without making a donation :: they get OSM data under the OSM License It's all the same. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Presumably there's a cost of the bandwidth used and of maintaining the servers; running anything approaching a SLA is going to cost. Microsoft get access to the OSM data the same as anyone else, but they also get their images vectorised. I don't know if OSM data, or vector data from their rasters, is of use to them but its a potential bonus. Certainly if I had a load of images of the world I'd donate them and benefit from some crowd sourced digitisation. Joseph On 4 Apr 2012 19:23, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Matthias Meißer wrote: Am 03.04.2012 19:14, schrieb yvecai: Le 03/04/2012 18:56, Richard Fairhurst a écrit : Pieren wrote: we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft investing big dollars in OSM. [...] Where is the truth here ? I'm sure we'd all like to know! I'm not aware of any announcement being made or (say) any formal contact this year between Microsoft and OSMF. As I've seen no new informations in these articles, I'm inclined to think it's just a hype about the strategy war between the big 3 or something like that. Same for me here. I monitor different media streams for OSM press works and it looked very much like a hype. No investigation and nobody checked the informations, just copy :( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_**mediahttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_media But nevertheless I would agree that Bing gave us a real boost in mapping countryside etc. But it's not actually costing them anything? They would be putting the images up anyway, so THEY are the only ones who gain by getting back free vectorized data? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=**contacthttp://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/**index.phphttp://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Joseph Reeves wrote: Presumably there's a cost of the bandwidth used and of maintaining the servers; running anything approaching a SLA is going to cost. Actually I'd view that the other way around ... Potentially reducing the load on their own servers because people will use the vectorized maps rather than the raw images. I don't believe that Microsoft are actually 'investing' much at all, simply allowing us to use what they are already having to provide as an alternative to Google and Yahoo anyway and a little extra load as we digitize them is probably only within the load variation day to day? Microsoft get access to the OSM data the same as anyone else, but they also get their images vectorised. I don't know if OSM data, or vector data from their rasters, is of use to them but its a potential bonus. Certainly if I had a load of images of the world I'd donate them and benefit from some crowd sourced digitisation. Microsoft 'support' is purely for brownie points in the open source community so they will be more than happy this 'miss-information' that makes them look good? I'm happy to make my own material available for anybody to reuse ... my problem is getting it scanned in :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Richard Weait wrote No donor to OSM gets special terms or access to the data. You and I donate data :: we get OSM data under the OSM License RichardF donates code :: he gets OSM data under the OSM License Yahoo! donated imagery for years :: they get OSM data under the OSM License MapQuest actual big money :: they get OSM data under the OSM License USGS donated PD data :: they get OSM data under the OSM License etc. Bing is now donating aerial imagery :: they get OSM data under the OSM License . It's all the same. No, that's not true.They are violating our license and noone really cares. It is known to OSM since January and MS admitted it. RichardF wrote that there was no contact to MS ...although they violate out license. The issue was adressed in German media at a press conference with the Federal Government and it became public. So they are not the same as anyone else. Other companies have been added faster to the Hall of Shame of the License Working Group -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Truth-about-media-hype-in-Microsoft-lending-big-support-and-big-dollars-to-OSM-tp5615717p5618894.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Hi I think we've squeezed just about enough conspiracy theories out of this thread. Let's end it. -Moderators * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: ThomasB toba0...@yahoo.de To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ? Richard Weait wrote No donor to OSM gets special terms or access to the data. You and I donate data :: we get OSM data under the OSM License RichardF donates code :: he gets OSM data under the OSM License Yahoo! donated imagery for years :: they get OSM data under the OSM License MapQuest actual big money :: they get OSM data under the OSM License USGS donated PD data :: they get OSM data under the OSM License etc. Bing is now donating aerial imagery :: they get OSM data under the OSM License . It's all the same. No, that's not true.They are violating our license and noone really cares. It is known to OSM since January and MS admitted it. RichardF wrote that there was no contact to MS ...although they violate out license. The issue was adressed in German media at a press conference with the Federal Government and it became public. So they are not the same as anyone else. Other companies have been added faster to the Hall of Shame of the License Working Group -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Truth-about-media-hype-in-Microsoft-lending-big-support-and-big-dollars-to-OSM-tp5615717p5618894.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Mikel Maron wrote Hi I think we've squeezed just about enough conspiracy theories out of this thread. Let's end it. -Moderators * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron WTF This is from Microsoft at #osm-de 10/02/2012 Microsoft has received requests from the armed forces to blur areas in Germany (StGB 109g is one of the corresponding directives which has been used as reference). We, Bing, have to comply with this requests erroneously used among other sources also some OSM information. We're working to correct the polygons and rework the blurring areas however it will take some time due to the amount of processing involved. We understand this is objectionable to some members of the OSM community but based on our very good relationship we hope and thank you for your understanding and patience Nothing happens although it was published here, Steve Coast was involved and at least one LWG member is aware of it. If you need more quotes, let me know. You can see that they still use OSM polygons here. http://osm.misterboo.de/military/ Conspiracy theory? Richard F admitted that there was not contact with MS...So MS is violating our license since 3 month and nothing happens. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Truth-about-media-hype-in-Microsoft-lending-big-support-and-big-dollars-to-OSM-tp5615717p5618964.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
If you think there is a legal issue here to pursue, raise it with the LWG. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: ThomasB toba0...@yahoo.de To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ? Mikel Maron wrote Hi I think we've squeezed just about enough conspiracy theories out of this thread. Let's end it. -Moderators * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron WTF This is from Microsoft at #osm-de 10/02/2012 Microsoft has received requests from the armed forces to blur areas in Germany (StGB 109g is one of the corresponding directives which has been used as reference). We, Bing, have to comply with this requests erroneously used among other sources also some OSM information. We're working to correct the polygons and rework the blurring areas however it will take some time due to the amount of processing involved. We understand this is objectionable to some members of the OSM community but based on our very good relationship we hope and thank you for your understanding and patience Nothing happens although it was published here, Steve Coast was involved and at least one LWG member is aware of it. If you need more quotes, let me know. You can see that they still use OSM polygons here. http://osm.misterboo.de/military/ Conspiracy theory? Richard F admitted that there was not contact with MS...So MS is violating our license since 3 month and nothing happens. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Truth-about-media-hype-in-Microsoft-lending-big-support-and-big-dollars-to-OSM-tp5615717p5618964.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Hi all, Since the release of this PCWorld article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/252649/microsofts_secret_weapon_against_google_maps_open_source.html we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft investing big dollars in OSM. This was repeated in the TheVerge article (http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/27/2906212/microsoft-openstreetmap-google-maps-competitor) and next in many, many other blogs/media/press around the world. Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Who much does it cost to Microsoft to allow its aerial imagery usage in OSM ? I don't find any answer/facts to these simple questions but many speculations. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
On 03-04-12 18:18, Pieren wrote: Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Who much does it cost to Microsoft to allow its aerial imagery usage in OSM ? I don't find any answer/facts to these simple questions but many speculations. I wonder if Microsoft could make an API to OSM in Azure, using ETL and Microsoft SQL Server. This could have an enormous impact on rendering and XAPI requests. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Pieren wrote: we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft investing big dollars in OSM. [...] Where is the truth here ? I'm sure we'd all like to know! I'm not aware of any announcement being made or (say) any formal contact this year between Microsoft and OSMF. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Truth-about-media-hype-in-Microsoft-lending-big-support-and-big-dollars-to-OSM-tp5615717p5615807.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Le 03/04/2012 18:56, Richard Fairhurst a écrit : Pieren wrote: we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft investing big dollars in OSM. [...] Where is the truth here ? I'm sure we'd all like to know! I'm not aware of any announcement being made or (say) any formal contact this year between Microsoft and OSMF. As I've seen no new informations in these articles, I'm inclined to think it's just a hype about the strategy war between the big 3 or something like that. Yves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?
Pieren writes: Where is the truth here ? Is the big support and big money the access of Bing aerial imagery ? Is that all ? Hey, that's enough for me. I LOVES the Bing aerial imagery. Microsoft is welcome to take all the credit for helping us that they want to take. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
