Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
For names such as this (towns and businesses) I agree that expanding/contracting the name may be incorrect. - Ben. On 16 March 2010 11:34, John Smith wrote: > > The only examples Ben gave were churches and a train station. The > churches would be a fairly grey area so I'm not going to touch that > but that's only half the picture, since the wiki page also covers > things like towns and businesses where the official name contains the > contracted version of saint and really is incorrect to expand it. > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On 16 March 2010 10:22, Liz wrote: > any other way to say this? The only examples Ben gave were churches and a train station. The churches would be a fairly grey area so I'm not going to touch that but that's only half the picture, since the wiki page also covers things like towns and businesses where the official name contains the contracted version of saint and really is incorrect to expand it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010, Ben Kelley wrote: > While I don't think it's particularly necessary to expand abbreviations for > names (or contract for that matter), I certainly don't think it is invalid > to do so. > They are individual It is necessary to find out what the correct designation is for each case There are no generalisations. any other way to say this? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
I'm not sure it's really worth the Wiki page. "St." is a perfectly valid abbreviation of "Saint". While "St." is very commonly used in Australia (written and spoken - "snt"), if someone changes a name from "St." to "Saint", is it really necessary to change it back? Most of the modern signs for St./Saint Mary's Cathedral (Roman Catholic cathedral in Sydney) say "ST MARY'S CATHEDRAL" although the stonework says "St. Mary's Cathedral". St./Saint James's church (nearby) that St James station is named after seems to be called "St. James" while the station seems to be called "St James" (and not "St James Railway Station" but let's not go there). While I don't think it's particularly necessary to expand abbreviations for names (or contract for that matter), I certainly don't think it is invalid to do so. - Ben. On 12 March 2010 12:39, John Smith wrote: > I created a stub wiki entry on this topic. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
I created a stub wiki entry on this topic. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On 11 March 2010 18:14, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > I wouldn't promise that I have tagged that branch correctly I didn't check, but based on the photo I'd do something like this: amenity=bank name=st.george Griffith operator=st.george ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, John Smith wrote: > On 11 March 2010 05:40, Liz wrote: > > http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=5505 > > Thanks for saving me the trip, so on their signs it looks like 'st.george' > I wouldn't promise that I have tagged that branch correctly -- English literature's performing flea. -- Sean O'Casey on P. G. Wodehouse ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Nick Hocking wrote: > Maybe we should adhere to these standards in Australia and point people to > them. Yep. I think with abbreviations, common sense isn't going to help - let's just define some rules and stick to them. As I understand it, we always expand "St" to "Street", even though the renderer just contracts it again. But we could agree to never expand "St" to "Saint". St Kilda is definitely never "Saint Kilda". Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On 11 March 2010 05:40, Liz wrote: > http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=5505 Thanks for saving me the trip, so on their signs it looks like 'st.george' ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On 11 March 2010 06:59, Roy Wallace wrote: > Contact those that made the incorrect changes. Other than that...Is The mistakes I've seen so far seem a couple of years old, dunno if Liz did anything about the person making changes to the town of St George or not. I guess I was just trying to highlight these mistakes so people would be more aware of them. > there a particular wiki page that recommends names be spelt out in > full? If so, you could add a warning there against indiscriminate > "corrections" made in this regard. Not much more you can do... There is for things like St -> Street, but it seems some people have taken this out of context. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
There is an almost universal rule in style manuals - full stop after an abbreviation, not after a contraction. but you can not control what people choose to do with 'style'... :) jim On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Michael Hampson wrote: > Banks statements have st.george as in the logo in the previous photo. It > also has St.George in the text information section and St. George Bank > Limited (with . and space) on the top right with their ABN etc. > > Regards, > > Michael Hampson > Ph: 02 4739 4938 > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Liz wrote: >> >> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, John Smith wrote: >> > On 10 March 2010 22:24, Richard Colless wrote: >> > > If you are correcting the bank name, it is actually "St.George" - >> > > includes the full stop, but no spaces. Check their website. >> > >> > I'll have to find a branch locally and see what's on their signs... >> > >> >> >> http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=5505 >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
Banks statements have st.george as in the logo in the previous photo. It also has St.George in the text information section and St. George Bank Limited (with . and space) on the top right with their ABN etc. Regards, Michael Hampson Ph: 02 4739 4938 On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Liz wrote: > On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, John Smith wrote: > > On 10 March 2010 22:24, Richard Colless wrote: > > > If you are correcting the bank name, it is actually "St.George" - > > > includes the full stop, but no spaces. Check their website. > > > > I'll have to find a branch locally and see what's on their signs... > > > > > http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=5505 > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 1:15 PM, John Smith wrote: > > Does anyone have any thoughts about what to do about this? Contact those that made the incorrect changes. Other than that...Is there a particular wiki page that recommends names be spelt out in full? If so, you could add a warning there against indiscriminate "corrections" made in this regard. Not much more you can do... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, John Smith wrote: > On 10 March 2010 22:24, Richard Colless wrote: > > If you are correcting the bank name, it is actually "St.George" - > > includes the full stop, but no spaces. Check their website. > > I'll have to find a branch locally and see what's on their signs... > http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=5505 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On 10 March 2010 22:24, Richard Colless wrote: > If you are correcting the bank name, it is actually "St.George" - includes > the full stop, but no spaces. Check their website. I'll have to find a branch locally and see what's on their signs... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
John Smith wrote: Or at least getting them to tag what is signed, I've never seen a "Saint George" bank, but I've seen plenty of St George banks... and people changed the town of St George to Saint George... If you are correcting the bank name, it is actually "St.George" - includes the full stop, but no spaces. Check their website. Richard ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On 10 March 2010 20:01, Nick Hocking wrote: > Maybe we should adhere to these standards in Australia and point people to > them. Or at least getting them to tag what is signed, I've never seen a "Saint George" bank, but I've seen plenty of St George banks... and people changed the town of St George to Saint George... > On another standards matter, with the availability of nearmap it is now > becoming an issue as to whether to join footways to roads and as > to whether landuse areas should be glued to roadwaysor not. These are topics for another thread, this one is about incorrectly expanding abbreviations. > It would be great if mappers were automatically presented with keepright or > validator output on all uploads. Get right doesn't always get it right, and in some cases the validator plugin in JOSM has led me astray and caused me to make errors that had to be fixed later, I think this could cause as many problems as it would solve. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
The ICSM website http://www.icsm.gov.au/ has some interseting standards on road naming etc. E.G A road leading up to a mountain honouring St Patrick may be called MOUNT ST PATRICKS ROAD but not Mt Saint Patrick's Rd It also has interesting standards for roundabouts (e.g they must NOT have names) and slip roads. Maybe we should adhere to these standards in Australia and point people to them. On another standards matter, with the availability of nearmap it is now becoming an issue as to whether to join footways to roads and as to whether landuse areas should be glued to roadwaysor not. It would be great if mappers were automatically presented with keepright or validator output on all uploads. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
It seems people are expanding all sorts of abbreviations, things like towns St George -> Saint George but this isn't the proper name, it's just St George, Liz has since fixed this, but I just noticed a lot of similar changes in the Brisbane CBD including a St George bank has also been renamed Saint George, along with a bunch of churches. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.468552&lon=153.026928&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF Does anyone have any thoughts about what to do about this? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au