Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Thanks Mike and Maning,

The XAPI call worked beautifully. I tried it before but the HTTP connection
just timed out so I tried it again tonight and it worked. :-)

So the following XAPI call should now return the complete 80 place=state
nodes for the provinces.
http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/node[place=state][bbox=1
16,4,128,21]

I also took the liberty of adjusting the location of some nodes to a more
central location. (In some cases, the nodes were outside their provinces and
located in their neighbors!) Whenever I moved nodes, I removed the tags
pertaining to the GNS import since the new coordinates no longer match the
ones in GNS.

Anyone is free to verify/correct my edits. :-)


Eugene / seav


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:43 AM, Mike Collinson  wrote:

>  "state" is the Map Features tag value for states, provinces and roughly
> synonomous high-level national subdivisions.
>
>  
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dstate
>
> FYI, editing them is real easy with XAPI. The following is a bounding box
> for the Philippines. It will download a file that you can open and edit in
> JOSM. You can then  upload changes directly from JOSM. Just bear in mind
> that these are not downloads from the live server but should normally be no
> more than 10 minutes older.
>
>
> http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/node[place=state][bbox=116.65,4.59,126.60,21.113056]
>  (just worked for me)
>
> or
>
>  
> http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/node[place=state][bbox=116.65,4.59,126.60,21.113056]
>  (seems to be
> offline)
>
>  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/XAPI
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 06:41 AM 14/09/2009, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:11 PM, maning sambale 
> wrote:
>  Why place=state?
>
>
> That's what the existing node have so I simply copied the "convention".
>
> I checked Canada (since they have provinces and territories instead of
> states) and found out their nodes also use place=state. For example
> Saskatchewan: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305700698
>
> Of course, it doesn't help that Mike also imported those nodes. :-p
>
> So, i'm not sure if we should change place=state to place=province. Take
> note that we also had an old discussion regarding whether to use
> place=village for barangays. Then again, the
> place=city,town,suburb,hamlet,village values are for settlements, not large
> administrative subdivisions.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>


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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Mike Collinson]

"state" is the Map Features tag value for states, provinces and roughly 
synonomous high-level national subdivisions.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dstate

FYI, editing them is real easy with XAPI. The following is a bounding box for 
the Philippines. It will download a file that you can open and edit in JOSM. 
You can then  upload changes directly from JOSM. Just bear in mind that these 
are not downloads from the live server but should normally be no more than 10 
minutes older.


http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/node[place=state][bbox=116.65,4.59,126.60,21.113056]
 (just worked for me)

or 

http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/node[place=state][bbox=116.65,4.59,126.60,21.113056]
 (seems to be offline)

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/XAPI

Mike

At 06:41 AM 14/09/2009, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

>On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:11 PM, maning sambale 
><emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Why place=state?
>
>
>That's what the existing node have so I simply copied the "convention".
>
>I checked Canada (since they have provinces and territories instead of states) 
>and found out their nodes also use place=state. For example Saskatchewan: 
>http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305700698
>
>Of course, it doesn't help that Mike also imported those nodes. :-p
>
>So, i'm not sure if we should change place=state to place=province. Take note 
>that we also had an old discussion regarding whether to use place=village for 
>barangays. Then again, the place=city,town,suburb,hamlet,village values are 
>for settlements, not large administrative subdivisions.
>
>Any thoughts?
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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[maning sambale]

Ah yeah.  As far as I remember the agreement was for barangay:

place:ph-barangay
place=village
name=X

I don't have questions regarding changing or not.  Just want to know
the "wisdom" behind it.


On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:11 PM, maning sambale
>  wrote:
>>
>> Why place=state?
>
> That's what the existing node have so I simply copied the "convention".
>
> I checked Canada (since they have provinces and territories instead of
> states) and found out their nodes also use place=state. For example
> Saskatchewan: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305700698
>
> Of course, it doesn't help that Mike also imported those nodes. :-p
>
> So, i'm not sure if we should change place=state to place=province. Take
> note that we also had an old discussion regarding whether to use
> place=village for barangays. Then again, the
> place=city,town,suburb,hamlet,village values are for settlements, not large
> administrative subdivisions.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>



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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:11 PM, maning sambale  wrote:

> Why place=state?
>

That's what the existing node have so I simply copied the "convention".

I checked Canada (since they have provinces and territories instead of
states) and found out their nodes also use place=state. For example
Saskatchewan: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305700698

Of course, it doesn't help that Mike also imported those nodes. :-p

So, i'm not sure if we should change place=state to place=province. Take
note that we also had an old discussion regarding whether to use
place=village for barangays. Then again, the
place=city,town,suburb,hamlet,village values are for settlements, not large
administrative subdivisions.

Any thoughts?
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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[maning sambale]

Why place=state?


On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> Further update:
>
> To the best of my abilities, I can't find the Mountain Province node so I
> added it[1] and confirmed that there is a node for Quirino.
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/495914621/history
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> wrote:
>>
>> Ok. I tried a crack at checking/fixing the Oriental Mindoro place node and
>> found out that this is much harder than I thought.
>>
>> First, I tried confirming whether there's a place node for Oriental
>> Mindoro. Doing this with Potlatch is impossible so I used Merkaartor and
>> serially downloaded the data in the area of Oriental Mindoro. I found no
>> node and decided that there was none in the first place so I added the
>> node[1].
>>
>> Then on a whim, I tried the OSM Name Finder[2] despite its outdated data
>> and found that there was indeed an existing node[3], except that it was
>> located in Occidental Mindoro (which was why I didn't find it in the first
>> place). So I deleted the node I added earlier and moved this existing node
>> in its place. In the process, I renamed the existing node from "Mindoro
>> Oriental" to "Oriental Mindoro" and removed the tags pertaining to the GNS
>> import since the coordinates no longer match that of the GNS database[4],
>> which was the source for the original import.
>>
>> I think doing this is easier with JOSM and with a planet.osm[5] Philippine
>> extract but I refuse to install a Java virtual machine on my old computer.
>> :-)
>>
>>
>> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/495881060/history
>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Name_finder
>> [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704531/history
>> [4] http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/index.html
>> [5] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, maning sambale
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
>



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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Further update:

To the best of my abilities, I can't find the Mountain Province node so I
added it[1] and confirmed that there is a node for Quirino.

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/495914621/history



On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Ok. I tried a crack at checking/fixing the Oriental Mindoro place node and
> found out that this is much harder than I thought.
>
> First, I tried confirming whether there's a place node for Oriental
> Mindoro. Doing this with Potlatch is impossible so I used Merkaartor and
> serially downloaded the data in the area of Oriental Mindoro. I found no
> node and decided that there was none in the first place so I added the
> node[1].
>
> Then on a whim, I tried the OSM Name Finder[2] despite its outdated data
> and found that there was indeed an existing node[3], except that it was
> located in Occidental Mindoro (which was why I didn't find it in the first
> place). So I deleted the node I added earlier and moved this existing node
> in its place. In the process, I renamed the existing node from "Mindoro
> Oriental" to "Oriental Mindoro" and removed the tags pertaining to the GNS
> import since the coordinates no longer match that of the GNS database[4],
> which was the source for the original import.
>
> I think doing this is easier with JOSM and with a planet.osm[5] Philippine
> extract but I refuse to install a Java virtual machine on my old computer.
> :-)
>
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/495881060/history
> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Name_finder
> [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704531/history
> [4] http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/index.html
> [5] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, maning sambale <
> emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.
>>
>>
>


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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Ok. I tried a crack at checking/fixing the Oriental Mindoro place node and
found out that this is much harder than I thought.

First, I tried confirming whether there's a place node for Oriental Mindoro.
Doing this with Potlatch is impossible so I used Merkaartor and serially
downloaded the data in the area of Oriental Mindoro. I found no node and
decided that there was none in the first place so I added the node[1].

Then on a whim, I tried the OSM Name Finder[2] despite its outdated data and
found that there was indeed an existing node[3], except that it was located
in Occidental Mindoro (which was why I didn't find it in the first place).
So I deleted the node I added earlier and moved this existing node in its
place. In the process, I renamed the existing node from "Mindoro Oriental"
to "Oriental Mindoro" and removed the tags pertaining to the GNS import
since the coordinates no longer match that of the GNS database[4], which was
the source for the original import.

I think doing this is easier with JOSM and with a planet.osm[5] Philippine
extract but I refuse to install a Java virtual machine on my old computer.
:-)


[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/495881060/history
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Name_finder
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704531/history
[4] http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/index.html
[5] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm


On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, maning sambale
wrote:

> I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[maning sambale]

After sending this mail and a yosi break.  I think this might conflict
with the names of Provincial City Capital.  For example Malolos of
Bulacan.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:13 AM, maning sambale
 wrote:
>> provincial capitol (if capitol location is known)
> This is my practice, for most places tag (if it is known)
>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, maning sambale 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hello guys,
>>> >
>>> > I think we need to update the set of province place nodes. (An example
>>> > is
>>> > Catanduanes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704527 ). It
>>> > seems
>>> > these province nodes were imported from the GEONet Names Server (GNS) by
>>> > Mike Collinson. The problem is, the data is outdated: the newer
>>> > provinces
>>> > are not included:
>>> >
>>> > 1. Kalinga and Apayao are still together as Kalinga-Apayao
>>> > 2. Biliran
>>> > 3. Guimaras
>>> > 4. Compostela Valley
>>> > 5. Zamboanga Sibugay
>>> > 6. Dinagat Islands
>>> >
>>> > Also, I'm not sure if the import was complete since I don't see all the
>>> > provinces' labels on zoom level 8 of the Mapnik layer. It's possible
>>> > that
>>> > they already exist and are just not rendered but it's very hard to check
>>> > with the tools I have at hand. In particular, the following provinces
>>> > might
>>> > be missing:
>>> >
>>> > 1. Mountain Province
>>> > 2. Quirino
>>> > 3. Oriental Mindoro
>>> > 4. Cotabato (formerly North Cotabato)
>>> >
>>> > Can somebody help with fixing these up?
>>> >
>>> > Eugene / seav
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > talk-ph mailing list
>>> > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> cheers,
>>> maning
>>> --
>>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>>> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
>>> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>>> --
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
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>> - www.waypoints.ph
>> - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
>>
>> PADI Divemaster #491048
>>
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>



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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Ed Garcia  wrote:

> I can help a bit  btw, where is the best ppoint to place the node?  At the
> provincial capitol (if capitol location is known)? m  or at the geographic
> center of the province?


My personal preference is at the geographical center of the province.

Here's my reasoning: the purpose of the node is to place a label. And in
most Philippine maps you see, you have the province label near the
province's center.

As for settlements (towns, cities), the label should be placed in the
poblacion since that is where most maps place the labels for the
settlements.
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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[maning sambale]

> provincial capitol (if capitol location is known)
This is my practice, for most places tag (if it is known)

>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, maning sambale 
> wrote:
>>
>> I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
>> wrote:
>> > Hello guys,
>> >
>> > I think we need to update the set of province place nodes. (An example
>> > is
>> > Catanduanes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704527 ). It
>> > seems
>> > these province nodes were imported from the GEONet Names Server (GNS) by
>> > Mike Collinson. The problem is, the data is outdated: the newer
>> > provinces
>> > are not included:
>> >
>> > 1. Kalinga and Apayao are still together as Kalinga-Apayao
>> > 2. Biliran
>> > 3. Guimaras
>> > 4. Compostela Valley
>> > 5. Zamboanga Sibugay
>> > 6. Dinagat Islands
>> >
>> > Also, I'm not sure if the import was complete since I don't see all the
>> > provinces' labels on zoom level 8 of the Mapnik layer. It's possible
>> > that
>> > they already exist and are just not rendered but it's very hard to check
>> > with the tools I have at hand. In particular, the following provinces
>> > might
>> > be missing:
>> >
>> > 1. Mountain Province
>> > 2. Quirino
>> > 3. Oriental Mindoro
>> > 4. Cotabato (formerly North Cotabato)
>> >
>> > Can somebody help with fixing these up?
>> >
>> > Eugene / seav
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk-ph mailing list
>> > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> --
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
>> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> --
>>
>> ___
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>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>
>
>
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> - www.waypoints.ph
> - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
>
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>



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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Ed Garcia]

I can help a bit  btw, where is the best ppoint to place the node?  At the
provincial capitol (if capitol location is known)? m  or at the geographic
center of the province?



On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:48 AM, maning sambale
wrote:

> I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> wrote:
> > Hello guys,
> >
> > I think we need to update the set of province place nodes. (An example is
> > Catanduanes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704527 ). It
> seems
> > these province nodes were imported from the GEONet Names Server (GNS) by
> > Mike Collinson. The problem is, the data is outdated: the newer provinces
> > are not included:
> >
> > 1. Kalinga and Apayao are still together as Kalinga-Apayao
> > 2. Biliran
> > 3. Guimaras
> > 4. Compostela Valley
> > 5. Zamboanga Sibugay
> > 6. Dinagat Islands
> >
> > Also, I'm not sure if the import was complete since I don't see all the
> > provinces' labels on zoom level 8 of the Mapnik layer. It's possible that
> > they already exist and are just not rendered but it's very hard to check
> > with the tools I have at hand. In particular, the following provinces
> might
> > be missing:
> >
> > 1. Mountain Province
> > 2. Quirino
> > 3. Oriental Mindoro
> > 4. Cotabato (formerly North Cotabato)
> >
> > Can somebody help with fixing these up?
> >
> > Eugene / seav
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk-ph mailing list
> > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
> ___
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> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>



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Re: [talk-ph] Province place nodes

[maning sambale]

I can try but not until weekend.  Hope somebody beats me.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> Hello guys,
>
> I think we need to update the set of province place nodes. (An example is
> Catanduanes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704527 ). It seems
> these province nodes were imported from the GEONet Names Server (GNS) by
> Mike Collinson. The problem is, the data is outdated: the newer provinces
> are not included:
>
> 1. Kalinga and Apayao are still together as Kalinga-Apayao
> 2. Biliran
> 3. Guimaras
> 4. Compostela Valley
> 5. Zamboanga Sibugay
> 6. Dinagat Islands
>
> Also, I'm not sure if the import was complete since I don't see all the
> provinces' labels on zoom level 8 of the Mapnik layer. It's possible that
> they already exist and are just not rendered but it's very hard to check
> with the tools I have at hand. In particular, the following provinces might
> be missing:
>
> 1. Mountain Province
> 2. Quirino
> 3. Oriental Mindoro
> 4. Cotabato (formerly North Cotabato)
>
> Can somebody help with fixing these up?
>
> Eugene / seav
>
>
> ___
> talk-ph mailing list
> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>
>



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[talk-ph] Province place nodes

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello guys,

I think we need to update the set of province place nodes. (An example is
Catanduanes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305704527 ). It seems
these province nodes were imported from the GEONet Names Server (GNS) by
Mike Collinson. The problem is, the data is outdated: the newer provinces
are not included:

1. Kalinga and Apayao are still together as Kalinga-Apayao
2. Biliran
3. Guimaras
4. Compostela Valley
5. Zamboanga Sibugay
6. Dinagat Islands

Also, I'm not sure if the import was complete since I don't see all the
provinces' labels on zoom level 8 of the Mapnik layer. It's possible that
they already exist and are just not rendered but it's very hard to check
with the tools I have at hand. In particular, the following provinces might
be missing:

1. Mountain Province
2. Quirino
3. Oriental Mindoro
4. Cotabato (formerly North Cotabato)

Can somebody help with fixing these up?

Eugene / seav
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