Re: [Talk-transit] Proposal for a new transport tag
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Andre Joost wrote: > Am 29.02.2012 18:18, schrieb Paul Johnson: > >> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Bryce McKinlay >> wrote: >> >>> Secondly, GTFS is already a good, widely used, open format for transit >>> schedules. Introducing a new set of tags for this stuff in OSM would >>> be like reinventing the wheel. In many cases GTFS data is provided and >>> kept up-to-date by the transit providers themselves. How about tags >>> that link public transport relations to the appropriate GTFS URL >>> instead? >>> >>> >> I agree; IIRC, GTFS data is available on the agency's website in a >> standard >> location. > > > Could you please discuss Google Transport things on Google Groups? > > This is openstreetmap, not Google. GTFS is an open data format for public transport schedules. Just because it was invented by Google does not mean that it's only relevant to them. Many projects use GTFS data and have nothing to do with Google Transit. Example: opentripplanner.org Bryce ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Proposal for a new transport tag
Personally, I think adding transit schedule data to OSM is not a good idea. Firstly, in many areas, schedules are highly variable over time, so this sort of information tends to become obsolete soon after it is added. Secondly, GTFS is already a good, widely used, open format for transit schedules. Introducing a new set of tags for this stuff in OSM would be like reinventing the wheel. In many cases GTFS data is provided and kept up-to-date by the transit providers themselves. How about tags that link public transport relations to the appropriate GTFS URL instead? If its just having a service frequency hint for renderers that is required, then I'd suggest keeping it very simple. For example, "transport_frequency=frequent", "transport_frequency=occasional,no_weekend_service" or similar. Bryce On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Janko Mihelić wrote: > Hello, > > The problem with rendering transit lines right now is that the busy lines > are rendered the same as the lines that go a few times a day. Those > differences between lines should be seen right away, but we don't have that > information in the database right now. > > I agree that the best solution would be to have the whole timetable for > different transit lines, but this is often not possible and very hard to > maintain. Transiki gave us some hope that this could be manageable, but > unfortunately the project was shut down. > > I propose a temporary middle solution. Every bus route relation could have a > tag similar to the opening_hours tag. This way we could know if a line is > only active on weekends, or if it is a night line. Or maybe it only runs in > the morning and in the evening. > > We could upgrade this tag, and put a number of trips in each time period. > This can be an estimate, a trip more or less a day is not much. > > It would look like this: > > Only ferquency: > transport_frequency=t5 > this means that a bus route has 5 trips a day. > > Only days: > transport_frequency=Sa-Su > this bus route only goes on weekends > > Only time: > transport_frequency=00:00-04:00 > Night line > > A little more information: > transport_frequency=Mo-Fr 08:00-23:00 t30; Sa 08:00-22:00 t25 > 30 trips a day from Monday till Friday, first trip at 8 in the morning, last > at 10 in the evening. Similar for Saturday. > > And so on. I added a "t" in front of the number of trips so it is easier to > see, maybe it is not needed. Or maybe this could be done in a completely > different way. > > This tag could be added in the route master or in the route > direction/variant. Renderers could draw the lines dashed if they are not > very frequent, or black if they are night lines. > > Even rough public transport routers could be made using this information. > > What do you guys think? (Should I have put this in the wiki first?) > > Janko Mihelić > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Janjko > > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN - Time for the rest?
That certainly sounds good to me. Along those lines, what are the chances of importing updated data from a newer edition of NaPTAN for the existing regions? In London I know of several areas where bus stops have been relocated/reconfigured recently (Camden Town, South Kensington) so OSM is already out of date. I've mentioned this before, but the other thing I'd really like to see imported from NapTAN is the pedestrian entry/exit locations for rail and tube stations! Bryce On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Thomas Wood wrote: > Hello all, > It's now been more than a year since we got permission to import the > NaPTAN dataset, so far only 53 of the 143 counties that we have the > data for have been imported. > > So, in short, is it time for the rest to be dumped in? > > Discussion please. > > Regards, > Thomas > > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] London stops missing naptan:indicator tags
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Peter J Stoner wrote: > I am not sure why the indicator field does not appear in the OSM > editor. The indicator letters are showing in the latest NaPTAN. > Perhaps TfL have only recently added them. That's possible, and it's good to know NaPTAN already has the correct data. This leads me to a follow up question: Are there any plans to update OSM with the latest NaPTAN data? As I recall, DfT/Traveline have made ongoing updates NaPTAN available to OSM - so I suppose this is a matter of time and resources on the part of the OSM contributors who have access to NaPTAN? Bryce ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] London stops missing naptan:indicator tags
Recently I noticed a cluster of London bus stops from NapTAN which were missing indicator/stop_ref fields. I'm sure there are many more of these. I'm wondering about the best practice when making corrections or adding missing data which will ensure that these changes can be noticed by NapTAN folks and corrected upstream? What I have done for now is added the missing "stop_ref" field, but not changed any of the naptan fields. Is this enough to get a change noticed, or should "corrected" nodes from NapTAN be tagged in some other way? Obviously it would be better to have some sort of automation here rather than having to send email notifications to this list or elsewhere when a change is made. See below for the list of stops I updated. Bryce Name atcoCode Indicator Abbey Road Belsize Road 490003027N *G* Abbey Road Belsize Road 490003027E *X* Marlborough Place 490009675S *T* Carlton Hill 490004800S *S* Marlborough Place 490009675N *E* Boundary Road Abbey Road 490004187S *R* Boundary Road Abbey Road 490004187N *F* Abbey Road Belsize Road 490003027W *M* Abbey Road Belsize Road 490003027SW *N* Abbey Road Belsize Road 490003027S *P* ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] NaPTAN London bus stop oddities
In the London NaPTAN data I have found some groups of stops that seem to have indicator letters appended to the stop name. I think this is erroneous as, as far as I know, these extra letters do not appear on any timetables or signs. A list follows. Perhaps someone can forward this to the appropriate upstream agency for correction. Acton Old Town Hall F G Acton Old Town Hall K L Beckenham Junction Stn C D Bow Church E G J K L Bromley By Bow Station W Bunkers HillThe White Cross N Bunkers HillThe White Cross S Camberwell Green E F Camden High Street E J Carterhatch Lane N Chislehurst War Memorial R S T Clapham Common Station A B Clapham Common Station C R Colliers Wood Station B Colliers Wood Station C Ealing Hospital R S U Ealing Hospital T Edmonton Green Station R S Gipsy Corner O P Gipsy Corner R S T Greenford Station B Grove Park Station G Hammersmith Bus Station Y Z Harrow Town Centre L M Harrow Town Centre R T Herne Hill D E Ilford Station D Kings Crescent Estate J Kings Crescent Estate K U Lea Bridge Roundabout B Lea Bridge Roundabout E L M Leytonstone Station A B C Mill Hill Broadway Station F MoorgateFinsbury Sq C D K MoorgateFinsbury Sq F G H J Muswell Hill Broadway A B Muswell Hill Broadway C D Muswell Hill Broadway E F H North FinchleyTally Ho Co D I North FinchleyTally Ho Co K Z Northwood Hills Circus C Northwood Hills Circus E Northwood Hills Circus K J Notting Hill Gate Station B C Notting Hill Gate Station D E Notting Hill Gate Station M N Old Street Station C Old Street Station M N Oxford Circus E R X Pinner Station C E Prince of Wales Road N Putney Bridge Station U Romford Station L South Harrow Station A B Southside Shopping Centre S N Swiss Cottage Station L M Tally Ho Corner K Tolworth Broadway F G Tooting Broadway Station B Turnpike Lane Station U Y Upminster Station B C William Ellis School F William Ellis School M Wood Green Bus Garage C Also, in Lewisham there seems to be two "Dartmouth Hill" stops listed both with the indicator "H"? ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Abbreviations in naptan:indicator
2009/11/4 Christoph Böhme : > Yes, that sounds likely. But then beyond or before what? I tried to > work out the meaning of the indicators on the stops shown here [1], > but to me both are beyond or before Princethorpe Road. Think about the direction the bus is traveling. Remember, traffic is on the left side in the UK, so in this case the westbound service stops beyond Princethorpe road, and the eastbound service before it. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Abbreviations in naptan:indicator
2009/11/4 Christoph Böhme : > Hi, > > I am trying to make sense of the abbrevations used in the > naptan:indicator tag. adj and opp are clear but I cannot work out what > bey and bef are supposed to mean. Beyond / Before ? Bryce ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Merging Guidelines
Thank you very much for your efforts on this, Thomas, and everyone else involved - I've been waiting for the London import for a while, and it's fantastic to see this data in OSM! I have one "bug" to report: Is it possible that special characters are being dropped from the stop names during the import? For example: ... TfL refers to this as "Conduit Street / Saville Row", so it seems the "/" characters are going missing somewhere? Also, I'm curious whether, in addition to the bus stop data, NaPTAN contains precise locations for Underground station exits, and if so, whether there is any plan to import these? OSM often contains only one node for stations that have multiple exits, and in some cases the node is ambiguously placed such that it isn't clear which street (or which side of the street) an exit is on. This level of precision does become significant when producing walking maps/directions... Bryce On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Thomas Wood wrote: > I've only just realised that my previous message regarding the imports > beginning only went to talk-gb and talk-gb-london. > > Greater London is now imported as changeset 2177128. > I was planning to import Hull and Suffolk also this week. > > Now that we're importing the data, we really need to get our > guidelines on how to merge and tidy the data sorted. I've pulled out > the relevant pieces from the Birmingham wikipage out to > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data > It really needs to be tidied and beaten into a useful document before > we let more people loose with the data. > > -- > Regards, > Thomas Wood > (Edgemaster) > > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
