Re: [Tango-L] Two of My Teaching Pet Peeves

[Michael]

First, if the lead is for a small step, the follower should take a small step. 
If the leader's frame is weak and doesn't communicate the size of the step, 
that's the leader's fault. 

Second, I don't  know how far is far for a back step. The woman shouldn't step 
so far it would cause her hips to turn away from the leader. The leader has to 
feel how far the woman is stepping backward. An alternative way of looking at 
stepping backward is to move the leg backward from the hip. If you move the 
foot first, there will be a "popping" at the knee as the foot extends.

I'm not sure teachers are signalling for the size of the step but more for HOW 
to reach backward from the hip. If the leader leads a small step, the woman 
should still reach backward from the hip and straighten the leg based on the 
size of the step that is lead. The leg should be straightened before the woman 
steps on it.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
"Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays Greyhound from the 
swift completion of its schedule to New York on Saturday.
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Tango For Her" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tango-L" 
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Two of My Teaching Pet Peeves


Someone wrote to me:

They spend a lot of time teaching followers to extend their leg, in
doing a backstep.

Someone, PLEASE, tell me why s many teachers teach
young followers to s-s-s-s-stretch their leg out,
really far, in a backstep!!!  

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[Tango-L] Men who pull to the left

[Michael]

Astrid wrote about men who pull to the left causing pain to
the woman.

My teacher taught me the hook step. When I take the woman to
the cross, after stepping side left, as the woman steps
backward on her left, my right foot has to go around her
right foot or I'll crash into her. HMM! Let me try again. As
I step outside her I want to stay close to her. My right
foot has to hook around her right foot, at the same time my
chest has to rotate to the right to remain facing her, even
though I'm still outside her. The next step is another hook
step where my left foot has to brush my right foot before
going forward. Men who don't use the hook step will walk to
their left because they see the woman is in their way. As
they walk to their left, they pull the woman to her right.

It gets worse on the next step. If I don't brush, my left
foot will go straight ahead, where the woman isn't, causing
the woman to twist her back even more.

Unfortunately, this is easier to show than to tell.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
If I can wake up early enough tomorrow, I'll get to NY in
time to see Zotto's tango show.



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Re: [Tango-L] Men who pull to the left

[Michael]

There are salient points missing from his explanation. Notice that the leader's 
feet are pointed outward. As he steps forward with his right, there is a path 
for him to step because the left foot is pointed outward to the left. After he 
passes the left foot he hooks his right foot back towards the woman. He doesn't 
keep walking to his left. His right foot is making a "S" which my teacher calls 
the hook step. You hook outward and then inward. He describes that on the third 
step, many men continue to step away from the woman instead of bringing the 
foot together with the right.

I promise this is the last message for today. I probably hit my quota.

It's an excellent video but I feel significant points are missing. Of course, 
he could have said them when the camera wasn't rolling.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Time to go to sleep.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:45 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Men who pull to the left


Here is a short video of walking inside/outside. Is it taught correctly?
How much further to the left would produce discomfort in the woman? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBFFLgUpXn0


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[Tango-L] Where is the follower?

[Michael]

Anton:
Your teachers are correct. The woman is directly in front of you. Think of this 
way. Look at a door. The door has a hinge. The wall has a hinge. The hinges are 
interwoven. A pin drops through the hinges to keep them together so no matter 
how far the door swings, it's still attached to the wall.

Feel the indentation in your chest. The follower has a similar indentation. The 
two indentations are to line up directly in front of each other. There is an 
imaginary pin between the partners. No matter how far the woman rotates, the 
indentations have to face each other. This is why it's critical that the man 
has to keep his chest facing the woman. The lead comes from the chest. When the 
man takes the woman to the cross, he steps outside  her on his left, BUT his 
chest rotates to the right. This is called contrabody motion where the top half 
and bottom halves of the body aren't facing the same direction. It took years 
of yoga before I could do this.

As an experiment, practice with yourself. Hold your fingers in your right hand 
together and vertically place them in your indentation, which is the sternum. 
Put on music in the privacy of your home and just dance. The sensation of your 
fingers in your sternum will help you become aware of the follower when 
dancing. If possible, if people don't laugh at you at a practica, ask a woman 
to put her right hand, fingers closed, upright, in your sternum. Just dance. 
You'll have a better understanding of why the woman has to be directly in front 
of you. There is an alignment and it's difficult to dance when the alignment is 
destroyed. Women who push outward on their right arm throw me off the center. 
Your frame should be firm, not stiff. Firm and stiff don't mean the same thing.

Hope this helped. I have to return to packing for my trip to NY. The bus leaves 
@ 7:20 AM. Hopefully, there will be tickets available for purchase at City 
Center for Zotto's tango show.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Anton Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Two of My Teaching Pet Peeves


In response to the below posts, could someone put me straight on the
trend to hold the follower to the right side of the leader. from my very
first lesson in Tango, it was insisted upon that I keep the follower in
front of me. I found that difficult after years of Ballroom. Even today,
my teachers insist that the correct position to hold the follower is in
front. Any comments please?

Anton


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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Michael]

Virginia:
Connection is not something that can be taught. That's like teaching somebody 
to savor a particular wine. Either you like the wine or you don't. Connection 
is a chemistry between partners. Chemistry isn't always present with every 
partner. This where the expression "it takes two to tango" comes from, IMHO. 
Each partner has to be comfortable within before there can be chemistry with 
somebody else. As my former teacher, Joe, said "We have to be able to embrace 
ourselves before we can embrace others." Dancing in close embrace doesn't 
guarantee chemistry. I don't understand how there can be chemistry without 
close embrace.

Frankly, close embrace can be absolutely frightening for beginners. It takes 
time to get used to it. I suggest you tell your partner not to concentrate on 
the latest figure taught in class or a private lesson, and just concentrate on 
you. You shouldn't concentrate on boleos, just concentrate on your partner. 
Practice to Di Sarli. His music is slow and emotional. Here is an example of my 
favorite "El Jaguel"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aSbUNNO1A

The couple did virtually NOTHING. (Yeah, a few valcaldas were slipped in.) 
Nothing was rushed. DiSarli knows how to pull on my heart. Just listen to the 
opening chords. They sound like the Greek Sirens calling out to sailors to 
crash their boats on the rocks.

Connection is a combination of partner and music.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Virginia Nicholson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection


This is my first posting to the tango L-list so be nice!

I've been practicing with a steady partner, but I still go to
milongas and dance with other people, so I can tell that my partner
and I lack the deep connection that I sometimes experience with my
favorite leaders, that sense of a silent conversation. My partner has
good balance and posture and has been dancing for a long time, though
mostly in open embrace...now we're trying a mix of open and close.  Do any of 
you
leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to strengthen the
connection? 
Best, VSN

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Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection

[Michael]

I guess the real issue is the definition of connection. If the context is the 
physical arrangement of the partners, then, yes, connection can be taught. 
However, if the definition of connection is the wonderful, exchange of 
emotional energy, that can't be taught.

You can plug a lamp into an electrical outlet. The bulb comes on when the 
switch is turned. How is connection defined? If the former, anyone can be 
taught to put a plug into an outlet. You can't be taught how to turn on the 
"emotional switch" and light up like a lamp.

I thought Virginia was writing about the "lighting up like bulb" connection and 
not the physical arrangement of the partners since she described the feeling 
she got from dancing with her partner and better leaders. I guess I'm the only 
person on the list who didn't understand what "making a connection" means as 
Keith wrote below.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Two more months to the Atlanta Tango Festival-- and warmer temperatures

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection



On Thu Jan 24  9:07 , "Michael"  sent:

I don't really know what Michael means here but I'm a simple, straightforward 
kinda guy and I'm 
going to assume it means what the words say - "Connection is not something that 
can be taught". 
In that case, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree and I honestly have to wonder 
why anyone would 
say this. 

I assume Michael means something else, but in the context of learning and 
dancing Tango, 
I hope we all know what ... 'making a connection' means - and it depends on 
technique, 
feeling, practice and awareness, not chemistry. That's something entirely 
different and I would 
agree that the right chemistry between a couple can raise the Tango to 
completely new heights 
and this is something that cannot be taught. The chemistry either exists or it 
doesn't. 

Keith, HK

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Re: [Tango-L] Omar Vega's videos

[Michael]

I called the number listed for the Tango Catalogue. The
FORMER owner told me he sold the catalogue to another
company and that company went out of business so don't
bother writing to the Bridge to the Tango cataglogue.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
7 weeks to the Atlanta tango festival -- and warmer weather
 
> Nice site, Keith.
> 
> You have a link, on there, to TheTangoCatalogue.com. 
> Unfortunately, Daniel Trenner's efforts seem to have
> been lost.  That site no longer offers the large
> collection of videos that were created by Daniel and
> crew.Does anyone know where to find them?
> 


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Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."

[Michael]

Mash:
In the privacy of your home, put on some music and just dance-- for yourself. 
You don't have to think about your partner or anybody else on the floor. You 
can concentrate exclusively on yourself. Instead of turning to the left (the 
open side of the embrace), turn to the right. Generally, a figure that can be 
executed in one direction, can be executed in the other direction. It's not 
good form to try something new at a milonga.


Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "'Mash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
I just want to know if anyone knows any brain washing techniques to rid me of 
this?

'Mash


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Re: [Tango-L] Foxtrot to Tango, how do I do it?

[Michael]

Mario wrote: 

I will pay attention to my partner and even more attention to the music

I suggest the woman was referring to your musicality, that it is the same 
cadence over and over. Foxtrot is danced slow-slow-quick-quick. I doubt she was 
talking about figures. IMHO, it's NOT the figures that make tango the dance it 
is. It is the musicality and the connection. Look at your complete list 
(partially shown below so not to violate the posting rules.) 90% dealt with 
figures. I don't remember reading in my years on Tango L that women are unhappy 
because they weren't lead in enough figures. I remember reading about figures 
being led poorly and the man dancing for himself.

As for inviting women to sleep on your sofa bed, I admit I NEVER thought of 
that. Let me know if it works and I'll try it at the Atlanta Tango Festival 
April 4-7.

Michael
Washington, DC
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Foxtrot to Tango, how do I do it?


I will collect and collect and collect..
I will throw a boleo and a cross
I will dance outside of them
I will invite various women from tango-L  to sleep on my sofa bed and accompany 
me
  to the Practicas and Milongas
I will kiss each woman after each dance (on the cheek)
  


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Re: [Tango-L] Pointers Please

[Michael]

Mario:
I don't know what you're so excited about.  I do it slightly differently. I 
take the side step to cross feet. I come forward on my left, the woman goes 
back on her left. As I come forward with my right in contrabody, I hook my 
right foot (the woman steps back on her right foot) and block her left foot 
from crossing, which would be the next natural step since we're in contrabody. 
(My teacher called this opening the door.) I then walk forward (I'm in 
contrabody position so as I step forward) my left foot takes me to the open 
side and I'm on her left. I stay on her left until I decide to cross back in 
front. This time I "open the door" with my left foot and step through with my 
right. 

Michael Ditkoff
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Pointers Please


I love the way this couple dance and I especially love everything that they do 
in this one.
   
  http://youtube.com/watch?v=UFZN4Y6V3L8&feature=user
   
  The opening is to die for and I am determined to get it for myself.
  A side step to crossed feet, a couple of ochos atras and then the lead moves
  outside left of the follow and continues walking outiside on the closed side
  several steps and then he begins to sidestep there (Help, any pointers on how 
to do all  this??) ..until the turn of the corner of the room is 
navigated..finally a sacada and turn towards 
   the center of the floor begins the next series of smoothies

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Re: [Tango-L] Dancing after accident

[Michael]

Anna:
Sorry to hear about your accident. I was in a car collision. An idiot made a 
left turn into my car and sent it crashing into the sidewalk. I tore ligaments 
and my Achilles tendon. I didn't know I tore my Achilles tendon because I 
wasn't in pain from the tear, only from the torn ligaments.

Definitely see an orthopedist. Not only get a X ray, consider a MRI. The 
Achilles tendon is connected to the calf muscle and muscles don't show up on X 
rays. Since there is a tear in the tendon, the calf muscle didn't get 
nourishment and atrophied. It's never going to heal completely. Fortunately, I 
can still dance.

Expect to go to physical therapy. The therapy was building up the muscle and 
strengthening the ligaments. I would stand between parallel bars, stand with 
one foot on a block, and do knee bends using the muscle to raise myself, not 
the arms. Cones were placed in front of me and I had to step over the cones. 
This forced me to raise my leg and pull full weight on the other leg. Another 
exercise was standing on a Bosu ball, which looks like a mushroom. When you 
stand on it, it feels like Jell-O. It will help you with balance. I even use my 
good foot to practice my balance.

Wish you a speedy recovery.

Michael
Atlanta tango festival is less than 30 days away!!
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango



 On Tue Mar  4 20:44 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:
The next morning I almost hit a speedy car that suddenly crossed my pedestrian 
way. Now I can but hop on one leg with the help of crutches. The ligaments of 
the ankle joint are torn. I won't be able to dance for weeks. >I wondered 
whether those of you, who might have experienced  an accident could give me an 
advice what kind of workout 
>
>Anna

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Re: [Tango-L] Ballroom vs Tango: Cross feet

[Michael]

Carol wrote:

> If by "cross-foot dancing" you mean stopping at a cross,
you're right, I  don't know of any ballroom dance that has
that.  
**>
> Jay Rabe wrote:
ballroom doesn't allow cross-foot dancing (can someone with
ballroom experience
verify that?);
**

Using Carol's definition of "cross-foot dancing" Viennese
Waltz has a cross just like AT. The man turns to his left on
his left, steps back on his right and crosses with his left
in front. There isn't a stop as he keeps turning.

If Jay means cross-foot as in dancing on cross feet,
ballroom DOES have cross foot figures. In Foxtrot and Slow
Waltz, there is shadow spirals figure. In Samba, there is
Shadow voltas figure. As a general rule, shadow positions
are on cross feet because the woman is in front of the man.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Feels like Spring so the Atlanta Tango Festival can't be too
far away

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Re: [Tango-L] Ballroom vs Tango: Cross feet

[Michael]

Carol:
Based on my interpretation of your descriptions, Samba walks (couple is side to 
side) is done on PARALLEL feet. When they change sides, the couple is doing 
shadow botta fogoes. However, they are on PARALLEL feet because they are 
changing their position relative to each other. Yes, the woman is in front of 
the man, but sometimes she is on his left and other times on his right. It's 
called shadow botta fogoes because the man's inside foot lines up with the 
wmoan's inside foot. (When the woman is on his left, his left foot lines up 
with her right foot. whenthe woman is on his right, her left foot lines up with 
his right foot.) If you're coming to Atlanta Tango Festival, I can better 
illustrate.

My ballroom instructor doesn't use the terms parallel and cross feet. She just 
says "hold on 2" or "hold on 3" etc. But I'm skipping a step for all shadow 
position figures requiring cross feet.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Carol Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Ballroom vs Tango: Cross feet


Sounds like "shadowing" = "mirroring".

As I'm writing this I see what Michael is saying -- I can think of 
several figures in many traveling ballroom dances, where lead and follow 
are both on L, then they are both on R.  Either when they are side to 
side traveling down the line of dance (American samba), or when they are 
stepping across and outside partner in one direction, then in the other 
direction, in a zig zag, as they travel around in the line of dance.  I 
forget what that figure is called, it has an elegant name.  But it is 
definitely outside partner, and it is definitely on the same foot (both 
on L, both on R) for the lead and the follow).

Someone's changing feet to get into and out of that (ie, hidden step, 
stutter step, held for two beats) to get into that...probably the lead, 
right?




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Re: [Tango-L] tall men in close embrace

[Michael]

does anyone have any special advice that they find resonates
with the "giants"?  are there any differences?in emphasis?
jackie wong
**
Jackie:
Since the man "follows the woman," the size of the woman's
step is to a large extent dependent on the man's frame. If
the man leads a small step, the woman should feel small
movement in the frame. But then, the man has to have a FIRM
(not STIFF) frame. I place my right hand on the woman's
"small of the back" which is just about above her waist. My
experience is she can feel my frame better. If I hold my
hand higher, it can feel like I'm pulling her into my chest
and off her balance or axis.

I suggest the men practice with a chair with coasters. They
should lead the chair to move BEFORE they step. 

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
4 weeks to Atlanta Tango Festival

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Re: [Tango-L] tweaking lower back

[Michael]

Lois:
Never mind milongas. The same thing happens at practicas and classes. Where 
there should be an honest, non-judgemental exchange of information to figure 
out why something isn't working, I've seen situations degenerate into 
accusations and rebuttals as if somebody was on trial for bad dancing. I guess 
this is why practicas have turned into milongas, so dancers don't practice what 
doesn't work.

To dance well requires body awareness. I didn't have any when I started, but 
yoga and Alexander Technique were wonderful in giving me this awareness, even 
off the dance floor. For example, when I walk upstairs, I have to remember not 
to sink into my hips but keep my skeleton elongated and go up the stairs with 
my body straight up, not angled to match the stairway.

Michael Ditkoff
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Washington, DC
3 weeks to Atlanta

- Original Message - 
From: "Lois Donnay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tweaking lower back


 Before and during my first trip to BA, 10 years ago, my back would often hurt. 
Then I started to 
learn how to hold my head up, fix my spine and posture. What saddens me is how 
so many people blame their partners for their back problems, when it is fairly 
apparent (to me, anyway) that they need to fix their own posture. 
Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN


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[Tango-L] Fwd: NYTimes.com: Argentine Nights

[Michael]

TRAVEL   | March 16, 2008 
Argentine Nights

 

By DENNY LEE 
Drawn by low prices and Paris-like elegance, expat artists,
designers and musicians are transforming Buenos Aires into a
throbbing hothouse of cool. 


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Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness

[Michael]

Jackie:
You are writing about the confluence of technique, musicality, and emotion. I'm 
skipping technique. 

First, musicality. My teacher helped me think outside the box. He put on music, 
and said "Now dance, ALONE!" The first time I danced like a leader. Then he 
said, "Next time, dance like a follower."  The third time, he said "Now 
interchange between lead and follower's roles." The next time he said "Do an 
ocho and go the other way. Don't worry about line of dance. You're the only one 
dancing in your house." I was leading myself. Because I was dancing alone, 
there was no partner to worry about. Followers need to hear the music for 
themselves, so they should practice by themselves. Now, they can't say "the 
leader rushed me or didn't give me a change for an adornment."

Next, emotion. Well, you can't teach how to be happy. The best you can do is 
suggest how individuals can open themselves. Amazingly, tango was my can 
opener. Whatever you feel in your gut comes to the surface, and how you deal 
with life. Yoga for helpful because the therapist squeezed tension out of me. 
Dancers have to understand that tango is NOT resistance dancing like Swing. And 
it's only SOME figures in Swing that require resistance. Examples are Sailor's 
Shuffle and Toe-Heel Swivels. Personal problems and how individuals deal with 
life impact how they dance. There is NO switch to flick "off" that turns off 
all personal problems when getting on the dance floor.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Two weeks to Atlanta Tango Festival-- and counting

- Original Message - 
From: "jackie ling wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness


now, i have led many followers... and then there are followers who dance with  
you  who dance melodically... and hear the notes that are emphasized and 
can translate that to their dance.  

my question...  how do you teach this?  is there an exercise that can help 
people understand what i am saying?

thanks
jackie

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[Tango-L] Interesting Practcie Tool

[Michael]

I will go to great lengths to improve my dancing. To improve my molinetes, I've 
practiced with a circular garbage can. To improve my frame I practiced with a 
broom handle on my shoulders behind my head with my arms hanging on it. I know 
I do crazy things, but sometimes, the crazier; the better the tool.

Yesterday, I went to New York for my monthly gift to myself. I saw the show "El 
Tango y Ella Milonga. In one scene, Anton Gazenbeek came onto the stage with 
two long, thin, sticks. They must have been at least 5 feet long. He danced 
with them to nueve de julio. The sticks represented the woman's feet. As he 
lead the sticks in a molinete, he practiced  barridas, sacadas, displacements, 
ganchos, and I don't remember the rest. I was really impressed!! And the best 
part- there were no arguments between the partners, which I sometimes see at 
practicas. H!! 

Michael Ditkoff
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Finally, two weeks to Atlanta Tango Festival

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Re: [Tango-L] Not leading vs.leading the cross

[Michael]

This issue was discussed previously when Mario wrote about blocking the woman 
from crossing. The man goes sideways to cross feet. He comes forward on his 
left foot, forward on his right outside partner, connecting with the woman's 
left foot, preventing her from crossing. 

Michael
Washington, DC
Leaving Friday for Atlanta Tango Festival

- Original Message - 
From: "Jay Rabe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Not leading vs.leading the cross



Sergio said:

> If the man walks to her right and wishes to prevent her from crossing ... he 
> does so by placing 
> his foot close to her right one so that she is deprived of that option.

J
TangoMoments.com



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Re: [Tango-L] On similes and such like...

[Michael]

Woman can do plenty without a leader, if they know how.. and want to. The ONLY 
workshop I ever took on this subject was at the summer NY Tango Festival. The 
class, interleading, by Virginia Kelly, taught women how to stop the man from 
moving and add her own dialogue to the dance. I don't remember all the 
examples, but I do remember the man leading a stepover. The woman steps over, 
and drags the man foot. I know that would give some men a coronary. Another 
example is the man leads a front ocho, and the woman stops the man's frame 
because she wants to embellish the pivot. The woman isn't back leading by 
leading the man into a particular figure. She just stops the man's movement 
because she wants to do something. The problem is few women know or want to do 
this. Even when a man leads a step over, few women take the opportunity to 
embellish it. Granted, the man's frame may not allow the freedom, which is a 
shame. 

Michael
Going to Atlanta Friday. Will file my taxes when I return.
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

Somebody (I can't keep track with messages pasted on top of messages) wrote:

But leaders are needed.., else the ladies would be out there dancing by 
themselves.  To whatever degree one 'accepts' it.., the ladies can do nothing 
on the Tango floor without a leader.

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Re: [Tango-L] Do I have to invent every step of the dance, even her's ???

[Michael]

Mario:
When a dance doesn't go well, I assure you the woman knows. You don't have to 
bring it to her attention. Silence is golden.

Just because a figure worked on youtube doesn't mean it's going to work for 
you. Every woman is different. Some require a firmer lead. In fact, it's 
difficult to see the lead. If all you're doing is looking at the feet, you're 
not going to learn tango. Men don't lead with their feet. I remember my teacher 
showing me somthing Saturday afternoon at 1 and it worked fine. For some 
reason, it didn't work at the milonga the same night at 9:30.

Yes, you have to know what the follower is going to do because you're leading. 
That's what leading means-communicating what you want the woman to do. Yes, 
there is creative space but not every space is creative space. It depends on 
when and where you give the space. How are you communicating to the woman to 
"do her own thing." I don't open my stance to signal play time. I'll loosen my 
right arm and see the woman's response. Some  women want to play and some 
don't. And, if the tanda went as badly as you wrote, why would you expect the 
woman to show creativity when there are rough spots?

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Do I have to invent every step of the dance,even her's ???


 At the end of a not-so-flowing dance, I blurted out to my partner; " There
  were some rough spots in that one, wasn't there?"  Well, on youtube it worked.

I was hoping that she  would just make something up..like a forward ocho or 
something...
   So, the question is; do I have to know exactly what the follow is to do
  at all times? Is there no 'creative space' where the lead can open his 
  stance and just let the follow invent?

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Re: [Tango-L] Atlanta Tango Festival Video

[Michael]

Since Miles posted videos, it's time to express my thanks to the organizers, 
Alan and Angel, for a wonderful festival. They care very much about making it 
great and listen carefully to feedback.

After last year's festival, I wrote on Tango L that the ballroom was too dark 
and cabeceo was just about impossible to use. On top of that, very few people 
seemed to use it. At this festival, Barbara Durr taught a class on milonga 
etiquette about cabeceo and that LINE of dance also means LANE of dance. Alan 
has a cute expression that sums it up "You're not just dancing with your 
partner. You're dancing with everybody else at the milonga." Unfortunately, 
that message fell on deaf ears as some couples wanted to go NOWHERE and do some 
fancy, elaborate figure that took up too much space (crossed over into the next 
lane) or too much time.

Fortunately, Robert Hauck and Barbara taught a class "Viceversa reversals and 
mirror images." The class dealt with check steps (I call them rock steps) to 
use when stuck behind non moving traffic.

Where cabeceo didn't work for me, I used Plan B, which I should have used last 
year. I told women in the hallway and at classes I wanted to dance with them. I 
got to everybody except two, which is better than coming home complaining there 
were a lot of women I didn't dance with. I remember telling one I couldn't get 
her attention, even though she was sitting at a table closest to the floor. She 
only looked out into the floor and not around her to see if anybody wanted to 
dance with her. Like the flight crew says on the plane "Your closest exit might 
be behind you." At a milonga, the closest person who wants to dance with you 
could be BEHIND you.

One man wanted a woman so badly, he sat in a chair in front of her and just 
starred at her. When she finished talking to her friends, she turned around, 
saw his gaze, and screamed. Well, he got to dance with her. I was going to try 
that with Hillary, but somebody sat in that chair and my chance was lost. Well, 
there's next year.

Congratulations again to Angel and Alan.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
I had such a good time, I forgot I haven't filed my taxes yet.

- Original Message - 
From: "m i l e s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Atlanta Tango Festival Video


Hi,

Here's the end result of *MY* Atlanta Tango Festival experience...

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=996E01128CEEB12E

Miles.

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Re: [Tango-L] Coaching the Lead

[Michael]

Mario:
Good question. I concentrate on feeling the woman. OOPS. Let me rephrase that. 
I concentrate on the sensation of the woman's chest. If I feel her stomach, it 
means that my hips are forward and my weight is back on my heels. I can't lead 
with my stomach. To go even further, I also sense if our chests are in 
alignment at our sternums. If the woman pushes outwardly hard on her right arm, 
she is pushing us off the alignment. I push her arm downward so she pushes 
downward and I might be able to get us back into alignment. 

I suggest that when you don't feel you are in alignment, you will eventually 
figure out what has to be corrected.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Still thinking fondly of some wonderful tandas at the Atlanta Tango Festival

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 11:04 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Coaching the Lead


 She helped me with my posture and balance, continuously stopping and reminding 
me when it went out.. when I could feel my chest (sternum) connection as THE 
communication   of where we were going..the arms seemed to disappear and I 
began to really lead for the first time. What do you remind yourself of, in 
order to get it right each time??  thanks

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Re: [Tango-L] Buffalo's Ladies Only lesson report.

[Michael]

Floyd:
I don't know what you mean "leads are not just given one at a time. That they 
will come to see two and three being given at once."

I only give one at a time. The woman has to finish a step before she can do the 
next step. I can't give her three steps at once. I must be misinterpreting what 
you wrote.

Michael
Still thinking fondly of the Atlanta tango festival
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Floyd Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Buffalo's Ladies Only lesson report.

They were taught that leads are not just given one at a time.  That
they will come to see two and three being given at once.  
Take care...   

Floyd


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Re: [Tango-L] Buffalo's Ladies Only lesson report.

[Michael]

Floyd:
I understand better what you mean. But if I was beginner, I'd be confused if
I went to tango festivals where instructors spoke about " the lead" and not
"the leads" after your description.  I agree the torso sends many signals;
tempo, degree of rotation, direction of step, etc. I wouldn't want to call
it multiple leads.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Looks like spring is going to stay here


On 4/24/08, Floyd Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> But you *can* give more than one lead at a time, within a single step,
> or followers weight change.  The leader's entire body is in fact the
> lead.., including every movement it makes.  The follower needs to be
> in tune with all of it...
>
> I know most everyone goes the single lead way..,


I only consider followers taking single steps only.  I never consider
multiple steps, which I call 'moves'.

I was trying to say that the follower must keep her senses open for
many leads at once.   Coming all the time within each step she takes..
To be ready and able to perform the various steps and the
modifications she feels..,  as opposed to the vanilla one of three
step leads, coming one at a time.

I hope it makes sense...   It does to me...

Floyd
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Re: [Tango-L] Getting educated

[Michael]

Jeff:
I understand your pain. My private teacher never concentrated on figures
except to help me with my technique. So, as part of a good basic education:
1) Relaxed body so the muscles don't grip so the dancer and give and feel
the lead
2) How to maintain axis
3) Develop a firm, but gentle frame
4) Have good balance (don't dance pigdeon toed)
5) Maintain good posture by keeping the hips back so the chest comes
forward. (This is NOT the same thing as bending forward from the waist.)

Joe always said "Michael, it's the HOW, not the WHAT, that matters." The
Chinese have an expression "Give a man a fish; feed him for one day. Teach a
man to fish; feed him for life." Translated to tango "Teach somebody a
figure and all they can do is that specific figure. Teach them how to dance
with the education I listed above, they can dance anything."

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Probably going to the Big Apple next weekend for the all night milonga and
hoping to schedule a business trip to NY.




On 5/2/08, Jeff Gaynor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> So people, what in you opinion would you count as a good basic education
> for someone who wants to do tango?
>
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[Tango-L] Ballroom steps in tango

[Michael]

I looked at Mario's link to youtube of Sylvania dancing milonga with another
woman. At about the 55 seconds mark, I saw a particularly good combination.
She stepped foward on her left, side right, close left to right, and come
out on the right. (There must be q quick weight change from the right to the
left.) There was a zig zag quality to the movement. And then, all of a
sudden, it hit me like lightning. It looked just like botta fogoes in Samba,
excluding the different rhythm.

Since I also dance ballroom, I'm going to examine if there is footwork and
rhythm (not figures) from other ballroom dances I can incorporate into
tango, vals, or milonga.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
It seems Spring has arrived.--
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
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Re: [Tango-L] Tango Research

[Michael]

On 5/6/08, Bryan De Valdivia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> My question is this:
> If you could know where your/your partner's/your student's weight is
> located at any point in the dance- what would you want to know, why,
> and how would you use it?
>
> b.


   Bryan:
I need to know which foot is free (has no weight on it). For example, some
women go into the cross but DON"T put weight on the left foot. I need to
know so I don't lead her to step with her right foot, which is the support
foot. I like to forward ochos (I'm moving backwards, but WITH the line of
dance (LOD).  I stop the ochos with my frame. Sometimes, the woman will
continue to pivot and step forward, right into me. I need to know when she
has stopped moving.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Going to the New York All Night Milonga Saturday

>
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Re: [Tango-L] Ballroom steps in tango

[Michael]

Mario:
Between :55 and :60 after she comes out of the turn and starts going straight, 
Sylvania throws in the slight zig zag.

Michael Ditkoff
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Ballroom steps in tango


"..Sylvania dancing milonga with another woman. At about the 55 seconds mark, I 
saw a particularly good combination. She stepped foward on her left, side 
right, close left to right, and come out on the right. (There must be q quick 
weight change from the right to the left.) There was a zig zag quality to the 
movement. And then, all of a
sudden, it hit me like lightning. It looked just like botta fogoes in Samba, 
excluding the different rhythm."
 - Michael Ditkoff
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhknYQ41j9Y
   
  First of all; I absolutely LOVE IT when someone posts a timestamp and
  comment on a dance video...alas, I must be not able to see this one, however.
  It just looked like a right forward step and right turn..darn it there was 
some 
  quick step as she turned but it was obscured...but thanks and please ..more!



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Re: [Tango-L] Ballroom steps in tango

[Michael]

Mario:
Traspie refers to the rhythm, not the specific steps. Traspie can be done with 
all forward steps. Sylvania puts in a nice touch with the side step.

Michael Ditkoff
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Next tango festival for me is in New York www.celebratetango.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:03 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Ballroom steps in tango


Thanks Michael I can see it now.
   Say, isn't that a Traspie?
If not, what the heck is a Traspie?
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhknYQ41j9Y
   read 55 to 60 secs. in...the time elapsed is read in white
in the center of the bottom frame of the video



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Re: [Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.

[Michael]

My dance teacher once said: "Before we can embrace others, we have to be able 
to embrace ourselves."

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.


Here is a really honest and perceptive self examination by a very sensitive 
Tanguera.
   
  http://tinatangos.com/blog/seattle/embracing-the-person/


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Re: [Tango-L] Middle of the floor

[Michael]

At last Saturday's milonga (I'm not naming the city), I had to dance
in the middle because:

1) Absolute chaos on the floor where the majority of couples weren't
in any "traffic" lane." It almost looked like a cattle stampede.
2) Some people were dancing tango to milonga and used figures that
caused them to stop, e.g. paradas and poses.
3) Some couples for whatever reason, just weren't moving.
4) That was the SAFEST place to PROTECT my partner from high boleos.
The number ONE rule for a leader is to protect the partner.

Michael Ditkoff

A few people wrote:
> > People dancing in the middle are ignorant, aggressive, rude people who
> > inevitably bump respectful dancers who don't deserve it. Causing bad
> > feelings.
>
> It seems a bit much to assume rudeness and aggressiveness when behaviour
> can be explained with just ignorance. Do you think that assuming the
> worst of people is the best way to adjust their behaviour?
>
> On the other hand, if there's a large open space in the middle, perhaps
> it's worth taking the time to wonder why that is.
>
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Re: [Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.

[Michael]

From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.


My dance teacher once said: "Before we can embrace others, we have to be able 
to embrace ourselves."

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.


Here is a really honest and perceptive self examination by a very sensitive 
Tanguera.
   
  http://tinatangos.com/blog/seattle/embracing-the-person/


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Re: [Tango-L] Zotto y Ermocida...dance slooooo

[Michael]

Reminds me of my teacher saying "Wait for the women." I remember an exercise he 
gave in class. Everybody had two squares. You could go forward but never 
backward. The objective was to see who could use space efficiently. (I ran out 
of space long before the tango was over.) Osvaldo and Lorena never looked in a 
hurry nor tried to cover every inch of the floor.

Michael
Leaving for a cruise Friday, where I'm sure there's no AT. Thank goodness it's 
only 7 days.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] Zotto y Ermocida...dance slo


Osvaldo Zotto THE ultimate dance athelete  shows here why slo Tango is 
dificileither practice 5 hours a day or
  somehow have immense confidence but it probably takes both to do this  
classical ballet, only on the highest level, can equal this..
   
  http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=SVmS11XNUGA
   


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Re: [Tango-L] Styles of Tango

[Michael]

In ballroom, this is called shadow position. Anton Gazeenbeek knows a lot about 
this and teaches it at the School of Traditional Argentine Tango in New York. 
(I hope I got the name right.) Watch this clip of dancing with sticks. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsuIuxz5_Eo

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "David Thorn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "tango-l" 
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Styles of Tango



>> And "nuevo" dancing implies that you look down and ogle your partner's  
>> outfit.

Forget this outfit business Joe.  I've been working very hard on my Tango Doble 
Frente

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tymrs60k3dU

so that I could look down and ogle my partners backside, I mean, high-heels.

Cheers,

David
_
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008
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Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean

[Michael]

Jack:
Think of a calesita. The woman doesn't step while it's executed. Why? The man 
is supposed to give her a very slight lift, like leading the cross. The lift 
tells the woman "Don't Step." When leading the cross, the lift tells the woman 
"Don't move your right foot" and the only foot she moves is the left into the 
cross. In the calesita, the lift tells the woman to stay on her right foot 
(keeping her feet together) while the man moves around her. The difference 
between the calesita and the volcalda is in the calesita, the woman's feet are 
together and in the volcalda the man is leading the woman to separate the feet 
so that one of them does the sweep.

Michael Ditkoff
Next Saturday I'm going to New York to dance tango


- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Dylan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean


Igor,

I'm prepared to believe that it's possible to lead the lady into 
a Carpa or to Apilado without using suspension and that's one 
reason why I posted. But, as I need to make a backward step 
to initiate the lean, you haven't explained why the lady won't 
make a corresponding forward step. I know that suspension 
works [but not always] and I'd like to know what else would 
work.

Jack



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Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean

[Michael]

Igor:
You wrote "when she can not make a forward step." But you didn't write how to 
stop her from making a forward step. My body is moving but I don't want her to 
step. The only way I can move without the woman moving is to tell her "don't 
step." That's why I have to give her a slight lift. I don't see how your method 
tells the woman "don't step."

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Igor Polk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean


Jack, Michael,

No "suspension", or "lift" is needed.
You go into lean when she can not make a forward step. Like when she made a
step, and the back leg is still behind, you initiate the lean. 

Igor Polk
www.jcctango.org
PS, please, include in the reply Tango-L address. They still block my
messages.




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Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean

[Michael]

Igor:
I lead my volcaldas from front boleo after a back boleo where she doesn't step 
forward. As she pivots on her support foot and the free foot comes around, I 
step back. She doesn't step forward nor backwards.

Michael
Washington, DC
Next Saturday in NY

- Original Message - 
From: "Igor Polk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean


Michael, 
After she steps forward, then there is time when she brings the back leg to
the "collect" position. At this time you move faster and initiate the lean.
Once she feels the lean, she will not be able to move to the next step.
Besides, your foot is already in appropriate position. 

You play with the difference in timing. That is the key.

This is one of the ways.

Igor Polk

Igor,
You wrote "when she can not make a forward step." But you didn't write how
to stop her from making a forward step. My body is moving but I don't want
her to step. The only way I can move without the woman moving is to tell her
"don't step." That's why I have to give her a slight lift. I don't see how
your method tells the woman "don't step."

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango



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[Tango-L] To Dance -- or Not to Dance: That is the Question

[Michael]

Based on a lot of messages on this topic, about only dancing with good dancers 
and should a lead be refused, I've combined my answer into one message.

1) I understand what Ilene wrote. I remember meeting a woman at a practica. She 
was very stiff, tight and difficult to lead because her muscles were frozen 
from men who lead with their arms, pulling and pushing her off her balance. I 
told her to relax and she danced much better. We used to dance a lot. Then she 
went back to the men who caused her to dance poorly because of their tight 
frame. She absorbed her tension like a sponge absorbs water. After a while her 
dancing deteriorated and I stopped dancing with her.

Everybody has to answer for themselves if dancing bad tango is better than no 
tango. There is no universal right answer. Everybody makes the decision for 
themselves.

2) Refusing a lead
There are a few reasons a woman refuses a lead. When I danced in NY Sept 20 at 
Sandra Cameron, there were a few women I couldn't lead because they were 
pushing so hard outward on my left hand, they threw themselves off our 
alignment. All I can is drop her arm downward and keep it down no matter how 
hard she pushes. The other type is part of a dialogue. Virginia Kelly taught a 
great class at the NY Tango Festival (the one in the summer NOT the one coming 
up) called Interleading. The woman stopped the man dead in his tracks so she 
could do a figure. As long as I was relaxed and understood what was going on, I 
didn't freak out. Tango is a dialogue. When the woman talks, the man has to 
listen.


Michael
Resumed Spanish class for my trip to BA next year
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Ilene Marder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught


I once asked a very good, very well known dancer  why he didn't dance with 
me anymore. he said... basically..." look at who you are dancing with...some of 
them 
are not very good and they don't make you look very good.  If I dance 
with you next, it makes me look bad..."  


Jack Dylan wrote:

It seems that Sean will not only not dance with women who are not good dancers 
but with women who agree 
to dance with men who are not good dancers.

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Re: [Tango-L] To Dance -- or Not to Dance: That is the Question

[Michael]

Nina is correct about rejection so I'll clarify what I wrote. I was referring 
to women who I dance frequently (or used to dance frequently.) They don't 
improve nor have any desire to improve. They are difficult to lead because 
their frame continues to get in the way, milonga after milonga after milonga so 
it's not one time.

Dancing with strangers is different. I've been pleasantly surprised sometimes. 
I feel everybody deserves one tanda and THEN make up your mind if you want to 
dance again. I'm not suggesting NEVER dance with some people. 

There comes a point where we decide "is it enjoyable with person X?" My former 
teacher, who used to DJ a popular milonga in Washington, DC on Friday nights,  
told me that women would complain to him about their last partner's terrible 
dancing ability, as if he was supposed to do something about it. He said "If 
you don't like dancing with him, why do you continue to dance with him?"

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Nina Pesochinsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tango-L" 
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] To Dance -- or Not to Dance: That is the Question


But a person can be destroyed by rejection.  Tango trauma is a serious thing.

Tango accepts people as they are, with all their feelings.  In Buenos 
Aires, that is still the beauty of the experience - you are expected 
to dance your feelings, whatever they may be that day.  There is 
freedom in that and integrity.

All the best,

Nina




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Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow

[Michael]

Lois:
How do you market the class? Remind people that there wasn't any Arturo Murray 
dance studio in Buenos Aires to teach tango. Men taught men. When men started 
to learn, they started as followers and the more experienced men would practice 
new figures with the new men. 

Tell women not to move unless they feel a lead. If the man complains she didn't 
do as directed, her response is "I followed what you lead, which might not be 
what you intended." She should then ask for his name, write it down, and never 
dance with him again. Sooner or later, the message might get through to the men 
who need your class. If women continue to dance with men who don't improve, the 
men have no motivation to improve. Women can tell over a period of time who is 
improving.

Michael Ditkoff
Going to make my 1st pilgrimage to tango Mecca next year
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Lois Donnay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tango-L List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow


I am such a big advocate of leaders learning to follow!! But how do you get men 
to 
understand this?  But it is not attended by the people who need it - especially 
people who 
are teachers, or people who are teaching their followers (requested or not). 
How do you get 
leaders to work on following?

Lois Donnay
Minneapolis



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Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow

[Michael]

Mario:
I think you're missing the point. Imagine how a woman feels dancing. Shes 
moving backwards, unable to see. Yet, she has to entrust her safety and 
security to somebody who may not be paying attention to traffic. Women want to 
feel protected from harm. On top of that, they want a chance to use their skill 
without worrying about being pulled off balance.

I took a non scientifc random survey of women 8 years ago in Washington, DC and 
Denver and asked what they wanted in a partner. The answers were almost 
universal:

A lead that is on the beat
A lead that has confidence
A lead that is firm, but gentle

The whole dance revolves around the woman. When you understand and can give 
what the good followers want, you will be in demand. When the woman looks and 
feel good, that's when the man looks and feels good. I don't see how man can 
look good at the woman's expense.

As for "Give me a place where 'men are men' and 'women are women' ", I suggest 
you go to Lake Wobegone, MN "where all the women are strong; all the men good 
looking; all the children, above average."

Michael Ditkoff
Next year, I'm going to BA--for the first time

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Lead and follow


I don't get it...why is the guy always the 'heavy'?
  Are men always the 'stupid' one? Always who 'needs improvement'?
  Always too thick to 'understand' that they should learn to dance in the 
woman's shoes, too?
  This just sounds like 'bull' to me..sorry.
  Give me a place where 'men are men' and 'women are women' ... then the fun 
really begins.

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Re: [Tango-L] test message

[Michael]

Sherwin:
Your email address might be bouncing.


On 10/28/08, NANCY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sherwin,
>
>   Enough already.  You very likely have opted for the "do not show my
> message" when you selected your mail options.  This is the THIRD message
> that appears on Tango-L in three days.  Trust me.  I emailed you privately
> earlier.
>
> Nancy
>
>
> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: [Tango-L] test message
> > To: Tango-L@mit.edu
> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:55 AM
> > test message
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: Tango-L@mit.edu
> > Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:15 pm
> > Subject: [Tango-L] Am I still subscribed?
> >
> >
> >
> > Sherwin Berger
> > ___
> > Tango-L mailing list
> > Tango-L@mit.edu
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
> >
> > ___
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> > Tango-L@mit.edu
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>
>
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Re: [Tango-L] New Electronic Posture Improving Device

[Michael]

I can see it now. A man wears it while dancing and it vibrates. I don't want
to imagine the woman's reaction.

On 11/12/08, Tom Stermitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> We can throw away our cattle prods and tasers. Announcing: The iPosture.
>
> http://www.iposture.com/index.php
>
> > The iPosture is an intuitive electronic device designed to improve
> > posture. Just over one inch in diameter, the iPosture automatically
> > senses when the body slouches, and it alerts the user with brief
> > vibrations to correct it.
>
> Tom Stermitz
> http://tango.org
> Denver, CO 80207


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Re: [Tango-L] The closest-to-perfect tango couple

[Michael]

I don't think it's a question of who is near perfect. It's looking at the video 
and writing if you like the style. Some people are fixated on figures. Some 
people focus more on technique. It reminds me when I visited an art museum that 
had modern art. A blank canvass in a frame or what looks like paint thrown onto 
a canvass is art to some. 

This list will never agree on a perfect tango or best couple. The problem is 
how we express ourselves on the list. I didn't care for the performance. 
Pablo's arm looked like he was stirring something. For me, it detracts from his 
frame. To somebody else, frame isn't important. 

I like the Detlef and Melinda videos. For me, they do NOTHING but do it so 
well! I'm sure some don't like watching because there are no valcaldas, 
colgaldas, or something else. It's a question of preference.

Our preferences mirror the teachers we like. My teacher focused on  axis, 
frame, posture, and balance for eight years of weekly private lessons. At 
times, it felt like I was in the Tango Marine Corps. So of course, my 
evaluation of any video is based on my training.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Have to sign up for the Atlanta Tango Festival then going to BA for the first 
time in April

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] The closest-to-perfect tango couple


Boy, you guys are tough!  The performance by Pablo Rodriguez & Noelia Hurtado 
in Zagreb down-thumbed because of their arm and head positions.  Whew!  Glad 
there are no videos of ME dancing.

I wonder.  Are there ANY couples these critics consider near perfect?  What 
about the rest of you?  Who would you say comes the closest to your ideal?

And how about a video link and a comment or two about the dancing so the rest 
of us will know what you are referring to?

Larry de Los Angeles

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Re: [Tango-L] The Milonga solution

[Michael]

Mario:
Did you realize the man's left hand didn't "stir the pot" like the last video 
you showed. Nobody's foot should get stepped on in milonga so there's no reason 
for the man to step outside to prevent something that shouldn't happen anyway.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:49 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] The Milonga solution


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VTQb7nc9c

This couple's Milonga dance is a breath of fresh aire and very instructional
to the up-tight and can't-get-it-right Tango dancers who usually sit out this 
song.
First of all; all steps are in Parallel footing and there is never a doubt 
about what
is happening for either partner. Secondly; 90% of the steps are done outside 
position.
This way we have outside parallel stepping and no body gets their foot stepped 
on...
(just in case that is what the non-Milonga dancers worry about all the time)
The third ingrediant is the ability to dance..not just move from one pose to 
another.
Or better put; a sense of rhythm ..one that effects the whole body and not just 
the mine.
Anyway, check this video out and try imitating it at home, it's safe! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VTQb7nc9c


  
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Re: [Tango-L] Foot touch leading

[Michael]

Mario:
I don't have to see the video to know you don't understand barridas
(sweeping of the foot). The man doesn't move the woman's foot with his foot.
The man places his foot next to the woman's foot, leads her to step,
usually, but not always sideways, and moves his foot when she moves her
foot. He sticks to her foot like velcro. The sweep is an adornment. The lead
comes from the chest NOT the foot. If he pushes the woman's foot with his
foot, the woman could change her weight to the foot he's trying to sweep.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC


On 11/20/08, Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atCA0lHX2MI
>
> oops, I have to say that I do NOT like the moving of the woman's foot by
> the man's. It looks sophisticated maybe (not to me) but where is the
> musicality?..I have never seen a foot sweep that had any relationship
> to the music being played. If this continues to build, there's no telling
> where this will lead..(not a pun).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atCA0lHX2MI
>
>
>
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Re: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc

[Michael]

Charles;
I don't see the disagreement. You said exactly what I said, though in more
detail. The man leads the barrida using his torso, not by pushing the
woman's foot.

Michael


On 11/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> re the barrida as "adornment" (?)
>
> Sorry Michael but I disagree about the barrida.   The barrida (sweep, like
> a
> broom, in Spanish, or loosely, slide or drag) is definitely led, and does
> involve actually moving the follower's foot, but as with some other steps
> in
> tango, it is often taught incorrectly.   There are several different types
> of
> barridas but if you are talking about where the lead opens up slightly and
> places the follower to his right while touching her front foot, then
> stepping across,
> then moving her foot, that is not an adornment.  The lead sets up the
> follower
> by placing her weight on the back leg, which takes the weight off the front
> foot, which makes it possible and fairly easy to slide it.   But the
> mistake is
> usually in where the leader is positioned.  All too often it is taught that
> the lead then pushes the foot but that is the mistake. If the lead pushes,
> he
> and she will be slightly off balance and might have to depend on her moving
> it,
> i.e. making it her "adornment" to finish, because it can cause her to shift
> her weight to that foot for balance, which firmly plants it instead of
> leaving
> it without weight, and difficult to move.
> Cheers,
> Charles
>
>
> **
> One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social
> networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
> today!(
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin
> =new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom0001)
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Re: [Tango-L] ..always a beautiful walk!

[Michael]

Mario:
Did you notice that Detleff's left arm and Melina's right arm didn't move the 
entire tango. The arms are part of the frame. There was no "stirring the pot" 
as in another video you thought was fantastic.

I don't hold my left hand so high. That causes muscle fatigue for me and my 
partner.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Tango-L] ..always a beautiful walk!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUBKF6Q3cI
A recent video by our friends Melina and Detleff.
This couple waas (and still is) one of my first crushes in Tango.
The more I learn, the more I appreciate their exact and beautiful walk.


  
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Re: [Tango-L] Where does the lead leave off and the follow begin??

[Michael]

Mario:
You speculate too much. It's not relevant why the woman isn't named. What do 
you mean about the woman contributing. She contributes with every step. The 
dance looks good because both are trying to please the other.
I don't dance with my left arm above my shoulder as Jorge does. My muscles 
would get tired and then it would become a struggle to dance. This is a 
question of style and NOT a question of right vs. wrong. Everybody has their 
own style.

As far your question if half the women in the class could deliver as good or 
nearly as good an experience, that depends on the couple. This is a dance 
between two individuals who have different skills. Some are more expressive 
emotionally than others. It's ridiculous to think that dancers are as 
interchangeable as light bulbs; dancing with one partner is identical to 
dancing with another.


Michael
Washington, DC

I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 12:44 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Where does the lead leave off and the follow begin??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9IORQeCmsA

Jorge Firpo, here, is giving a demo at his class. The woman is not even named
and so it is probably an advanced student. It is plain to see that Jorge has 
the chispa that keeps a dance interesting and dynamic..There is no question 
about that..but I'm wondering to what extent is the woman
contributing because she looks darn good, too! Would half the women in the 
class 
have been able to deliver as good or nearly as good an experience??? Is this a 
good
reason for a lead to be very deliberate about whom one chooses to dance with?


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Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets

[Michael]

Yes, Larry I dance milonga. I place milonga above waltz but below tango. I take 
small steps, with concentration on movement and not adornments because there 
just isn't time, unless you rush them.

I have the delightful dilemma of deciding how to spend my time off during the 
presidential inauguration. Monday Jan 19 is the King Holiday and federal 
offices in the Washington metropolitan are closed Tuesday. Whereas half the 
nation seems to want to come here, I want to go elsewhere for tango. I'm 
thinking of Seattle, Portland, or San Francisco (just love those cable cars.) 
Any "warm" ideas.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Have to submit my leave slip for the Atlanta Tango Festival

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets


Looking back over the last couple dozen threads I see almost no mention
of milongas. Do you do them? Any secrets of how to do them, and well,
which you want to mention?

Larry de Los Angeles


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Re: [Tango-L] Double time

[Michael]

Trini:
Good explanation. My explanation is based on how a man sets up ochos. He does a 
double time step to get onto the SAME foot as the woman. In syncopated rhythm, 
instead of ONLY the man dancing double time, BOTH partners dance double time so 
there is no change between parallel (same foot) and cross (opposite foot) 
dancing.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" 
To: "Tango-L" 
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets


--- On Sun, 12/21/08, Jack Dylan  wrote:

> Since you obviously think it''s important, could
> you provide us with an explanation, preferably with examples, of what you
> mean by a 'syncopated rhythm' in milonga?
> 

WARNING, if you don't like to think a lot about the music, delete this post.


I found Korey's explanation in the link that Norman sent a bit unclear if one 
is not already familiar with syncopa.  So here's the explanation I use that I 
borrow from Alex Krebs.

Let's start with a base of 4 counts in tango in slow time.  In other words, 
every time you walk on the main beat in tango, you'll count "1234".  Each "1" 
is a step on the strong beat.  If you took 2 steps, you'd be counting "12341".  
Your weight has the entire time for counts "234" to arrive at where you place 
your foot at "1".  Get off of the computer and try this first to see what I 
mean.

For quick time, say for a rock step, you'll end up dancing "1 3 1".  Here, the 
spaces for beats 2 and 4 are left blank.  I suggest still mentally counting 
1234 in your head or out loud, and you'll see that "1 3 1" marks the desired 
weight positions for a rock step.

A syncopa is either the addition of a beat or a taking away of a beat in an 
unexpected place.  For example, a rock step that is "12  1".  Here, the spaces 
for beats 3 and 4 are blank.  The result is something that feel very fast at 
first, but then hangs like a pause.  Common syncopa variations for tango 
include:

12  1
1  41
123 1
1 341

I suppose you could skip the "1" but that's never made sense to me.  The 
feeling of a syncopa is similar in feeling to dancing the "12 1" or "1 31" in 
vals (which has a normal rhythm of 1231), but that's not considered syncopa 
because it's not unexpected.

Concerning it's application to milonga, I usually don't think of milonga as 
having a syncopated rhythm because it happens fairly rarely compared to the 
other rhythms.  One can also dance syncopated even if the music is not 
syncopated.  For example, the piano is clearly playing the same milonga rhythm 
over and over again throughout the piece, but at 39 seconds, the other 
instruments suddenly stop playing while the piano continues with &341.  The 
absence of the other instruments is a syncopa, but the piano is not playing 
syncopa.  So a someone can either dance the syncopa (which is what Gustavo or 
Giselle do) or dance the milonga rhythm.

Trini de Pittsburgh




Hope this helps.

Trini de Pittsburgh








  
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[Tango-L] Flight information

[Michael]

I'm making my first trip to BA in April and could use some travel information. 
I have two good choices. If I fly American Airlines to Miami and change to 
Aerolineas Argentina to BA, is my luggage automatically forwarded between the 
airlines? The same thing on the return. I guess I'll go through immigration at 
Miami because there's no immigration at Washington National. I could fly 
American Airlines but I still have to change planes in Miami, The schedule is 
slightly longer than American to Aeolineas Argentina.

The current expedia, travelocity fare is about $730 before fees. I should have 
jumped when the fare was $550. I'm jumping now before the fares go up again.

Michael Ditkoff
Going to Tango Mecca in April
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[Tango-L] UP, up and away

[Michael]

Thank you list for your advice in flying one airline to BA and back to avoid 
problems with lost luggage. I'm flying American Airlines, for $743 + $83 fees 
for $826. It's a good thing I reserved the ticket yesterday. Today, it costs 
over $900 BEFORE fees. The moral of the story is when you see a good fare, grab 
it.


Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
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[Tango-L] Nomenclature: Leading with the Chest vs Arms

[Michael]

I've read the heated discussions about leading with the chest vs arms.
In the movie "Cool Hand Luke" which takes place at a prison in the
South, Luke upsets the prison warden who strikes him to the ground and
says "What we have here is a failure to communicate" and this failure
causes flames. I offer an alternative. A good leader doesn't lead
exclusively with his chest NOR his arms but with his FRAME. This is
the area above his waist, so I essentially lead with my chest AND my
arms.

When I read that a man leads with arms, my interpretation is he leads
ONLY with his arms. This means he is pulling or pushing the woman and
his arms are moving independently of his upper body, instead of in
concert with the rest of his upper body.

My left arm wasn't acting as part of my frame in the beginning. My
chest would lead the woman into a molinete to my left. My left arm
didn't rotate with my shoulders and acted as a gate. (I won't go into
how I painfully learned to get my left arm to become part of my
frame.)

When a woman complains of being pulled and pushed, it means she is
lead SOLELY by the man's arms.

I can only dance in close embrace so that my arms and chest move as
part of my frame. My frame envelops the woman like a frame around a
painting or a seat belt to hold a person snugly in a car.

At times, I wonder if posters are talking about the same thing, just
using different terms that throw others off track.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Atlanta Tango Festival in March followed by BA in April

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Re: [Tango-L] Shocked

[Michael]

Theresia:
1) It's considered bad manners to instruct during a milonga.
2) It's even worse to STOP in the middle of a social dance. Have you
considered how rude it is to the line of dance to just stop and create
a traffic jam.
3) He darted in between dancers.You think that's good? Suppose he
crashed into a couple?

I suspect you haven't dance tango long. There's more to tango than
figures. ETIQUETTE is also important.

Michael
Washington, DC

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Klaus Radek  wrote:
> I hope is OK for me to let my sister Theresia post some thoughts on here?
>
> Klaus
>
> -
>
> Klaus showed me posts on here and in emails, and I was surprised,
> shocked a little even, to see how unrespectful people were to Damian
> (Nougts) - even to making him leave here!. I can tell you he is a
> wonderful dancer and so much a teacher.  I danced with him in Poland
> and he was so helpful. Each time we danced he would tell me what I was
> doing wrongly and stop, even in the middle of a social dance and show
> me how I should do things, or explain how I should follow.  His
> floorkraft was amazing. Other dancers just went round and round but he
> used all the floor - and was able to dart quick into corners and
> between dancers unexpected. So quick. So you can believe I was shocked
> that people were so unkind to someone so helpful.
>
> Tess
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Re: [Tango-L] Shocked

[Michael]

Not only women easily accepted it? I believed it as well.

The moderator should  the originator and "his sister" off the list.
Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: 
To: ; 
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Shocked

 I think the reason so many women so easily accepted the e-mail as true and 
serious, is because this behavior has truly and seriously been experienced at 
one level or another by all of us. 


-Original Message-
From: larry...@juno.com 
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Sent: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:59 pm
Subject: [Tango-L] Shocked
Uh, guys, Klaus is joking.  His "sister's post" is a fake.

Larry de Los Angeles

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Re: [Tango-L] Shocked

[Michael]

Astrid:
I thnk you're missing an important point. Klaus named a dancer by
name, Damian (Noughts), and described his dancing. That didn't sound
like a joke to me.

Michael

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Astrid  wrote:
> I fin this long discussion of all these American dancers agreeing that
> Theresia does not know tango etiquette , and that they all agree with
> Michael's posting and so on and so on.
> I believe that all of you completely missed the humour in Klaus Radek's
> posting. Having to explain a joke spoils the joke but since noone except
> another European is getting the joke I will take the liberty to advise you:
> please back and read Klaus' whole posting again with the notion that it was
> written tongue in cheek.
> To most Europeans this would be completely obvious and make us grin and
> giggle, but it seems to be lost on you.
>
> Astrid
>
> Michael wrote:
>>
>>  Theresia: 1) It's considered bad manners to instruct during a
>>  milonga. 2) ...
>
> etcetc.
>
>>  I suspect you haven't dance tango long. There's more to tango than
>>  figures. ETIQUETTE is also important.
>>
>>  Michael
>
>
>



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Re: [Tango-L] dark milongas

[Michael]

I think the dark milongas comes from ballroom where ambiance is so 
important. I don't like dark ballrooms nor milongas. I used cabeceo a lot 
the first year I went to the Atlanta tango festival. It didn't work because 
it was too dark so I didn't dance a lot. The following year the organizers 
had a session on milonga etiquette where cabeceo was discussed. A lot of the 
women just looked forward into the dance floor and not around when not 
dancing. Nevermind the custom, I had to get into their range of vision 
otherwise I wasn't going to dance. As flight attendants say before take off 
"The closest exit may be behind you." The same thing applies to milongas. 
The closest partner may be behind you but few look.

For cabeceo to work, milongas have to be well lite and has to be practiced 
by 80% of the attendees or it doesn't work. I'll start using cabeceo  as 
Plan A. If it doesn't work because of insufficient light or the women aren't 
using it, I'll go to Plan B (the ballroom "direct" approach). Plan C is to 
bring a flare gun.

The bottom line is "it takes two to tango." Asking for and accepting a tanda 
is only going to work with active effort on both genders. I don't like 
interrupting a conversation for a dance. Maybe the women would rather talk 
than dance.

4 weeks to the Atlanta Tango Festival and two weeks after that to BA (where 
I have to use cabeceo) and the milongas are fully illuminated, I've been 
told.

Michael
Washington, DC

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Littler" 
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] dark milongas


> Excellent question Ilene! And why don't they segregate the men and women
> so you can look across at them in the eye?
>
>
> Another part of this lack of cabaceo is that I have to be  very skilled
in  politely interrupting conversations to  ask for a dance without
appearing rude.
>
> Also, I think some women can't say "No" to a dance and some guys who
> have been dancing badly for years and don't take lessons to improve, get
> away with murder, causing collisions, stepping on feet, throwing ganchos
> on beginners, etc. 

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Re: [Tango-L] The right size

[Michael]

Mario:
I don't agree at all there is an "idea" partner size. You wrote "she is getting 
off on hanging on this big hunk of a man." When is hanging onto your partner a 
good thing? You're supposed to maintain your own balance and axis. As for the 
woman being smaller, take a close look at the man. He is hunched over her, 
compensating for her height. His head is dropping forward beyond his chest. How 
is that good? 

This doesn't look like a match made in heaven.

Michael
Returned today from the wonderful Atlanta Tango Festival
Leaving next week for Buenos Aires for two weeks


- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" 
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:30 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] The right size

> I'm observing that there is an 'ideal' partner size for close embrace Tango.  
> Namely that the woman must be to a good degree smaller than the male..this is 
> my taste and I think that it's an aesthetic one..and a sexy  one, too. I am 
> guessing that she is getting off on hanging on this big hunk of a man...check 
> this video out:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNxld4XshCY
> Now, I'm not saying that they are going to go to bed with each other  but 
> isn't it obvious that the size ratio and the strength and leadership of the 
> male role is what is giving this feminine woman her thrills? 
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Re: [Tango-L] April - Anyone for BsAs?

[Michael]

Larry:
Thanks for the endorsement of my vacation plans. I leave Tuesday for two 
weeks.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 5:01 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] April - Anyone for BsAs?


> April weather in Buenos Aires is the best of the year, at least if you 
> believe the Weather.com display of average temps and precipitation.
>
> http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/ARBA0009?from=tenDay_bottomnav_business
>
> The next day or two BsAs is predicted to suffer the trailing edge of 
> rainstorms moving off the land, but be followed by more than a week of 
> sunshine and mid-70s temperatures.
>
> I'm thinking of hopping a plane to spend a few weeks there.  Anyone else 
> with similar ambitions?
>
> Larry de Los Angeles - novelette "Lady Death" added to
> http://ShapechangerTales.com
>
>
>
>
> 
> Purify your water with professional water treatment. Click now!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsJahuVpm0wiHQrcfzF1s9sf86ZZnY85WQHdLEB8zZzTie6OKQrhS4/
>
> ___
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> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l 

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[Tango-L] Tomorrow is the day--

[Michael]

I fly for the first time to the tango mecca. Thanks for the suggestions on 
airlines, what to wear, etc. (I wish there was a comparable list on how to file 
income taxes.) It will be interesting to compare my experience with others who 
have posted. I might post some observations when I return, but definitely NOT a 
daily recap.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
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[Tango-L] First trip to BA, the tango mecca

[Michael]

I´m in BA for the FIRST time. These are my OBSERVATIONS, not universal
truths. Everybody has their own experiences. I´m just sharing mine for
those who have never been here.

Milongas

Whereas the milongas I´ve attended in the US are virtually pitch black
(except for the recent Atlanta Tango Festival which wants attendees to
practice cabeceo), there is a lot of lighting at the milongas in BA
(based on the ones I´ve attended. It´s impossible for me to attend all
of them. My rented house is in San Cristobal so I´m going to the
milongas near the house (Lo de Celia, El Arranque, and Leonesa (which
hosts multiple milongas under different names, such as Nino Bien.)

Cabeceo
It is practiced religiously here. You need to understand it before you
come. For me, I  maintain the gaze of Bela Lugosi who portrayed
Dracula and focus on the woman I want to dance. If our eyes meet
because she is looking for somebody to dance, I have a split second to
make a slight nod of my head towards the floor and smile. She will
respond with a nod (yes) or shake of the head (no). If yes, I meet her
at the closest corner where there are no tables. I go onto the floor
first to find a spot and she comes onto the floor.

The Embrace
It´s only close embrace. There´s no open position. The man raises his
left arm with his palm toward himself. The woman puts her right hand
in the palm and all the fingers close. The woman puts her left arm
around the man´s back. The man lifts his right arm until it comes into
contact with her left arm. He then reaches across her back until his
fingers reach her arm pit. I haven´t seen any deviations from this
embrace by Argentines.

The dance
It´s very simple because the embrace is EVERYTHING, not the figures.
It´s walking, ocho cortado, molinetes and very low boleos, if any.
When you pack your luggage, leave your valcadas, colgaldas, and
displacements are home. You won´t need them and you may throw the
Argentines off.


Between the dances
Surprisingly, the Argentines talk for about the first 30 seconds of
following dances in the tanda. I was told that when young people were
chaperoned, the only time they could talk without their parents
knowing what was said was at the beginning of each musical selection.
No one looks young enough to need a chaperone.

At El Arranque, I danced with a Japanese woman to a DiSarli tanda.
When my favorite DiSarli tango, El Jacquel, was played, we danced. I
didn´t care that the Argentines were still talking. (It was the last
half hour of the milonga and the floor was empty.) I wasn´t going to
let a beautiful tango go to waste.

The language
Learn some Spanish. Somebody might speak to you in spanish between the
tangos and you´ll be ignorant of what they´re saying. Even though I
went to a community college to brush up, I know enough to tell the
woman I´m an American and spanish isn´t my primary language so I can´t
understand everything she said. And then there´s the issue of getting
around the town.

Ochos
Americans pivot when they ocho so the eight is more horizontal. Not
all Argentine woman pivot. They step backward, then reach back with
the other foot and cross behing the standing leg. So their ochos are
more vertical than horizontal. It´s still an ocho but it´s different.

Adjustments
I had to adjust my dance to fit the milonguero style. I prefer to
dance with my palm up, not my hand arm because I want my arm to be
relaxed. It doesn´t make any difference what I want. What the woman
wants is more important and I have to accomodate her.

Again, these are my observations, not universal truths. The purpose of
Tango L is to share information so I´m just sharing.

I have a guide who´s helping me get around.

That´s all I can think of for now. If I think of anything else, I´ll post.

Reporting from Buenos Aires
Michael Ditkoff
-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #2

[Michael]

This is a continuation of my observations, not universal truths.

What to wear at the milongas?

I´ve been told and read that men wear suits. In fact, very FEW wear
suits or sport jackets. I wore a suit to my first milonga and
overheated. It was like setting an oven to bake and 350 degrees. I
don´t wear a suit nor sport jacket, but a vest. The suit didn´t get me
a lot of tandas so wearing less than a suit can´t hurt.

New term
Suggestion of new term for ´`authentic Argentine Tango´´ (I´m using a
keyboard that isn´t conventionally used in the states and it´s
difficult to find special keys.) Instead of ´¨authentic¨`, I suggest
`¨original.¨ The milonguero style (named by Susana Miller) is what I
call the original style. It´s NOT the style I dance in the States but
I consider what I dance to be authentic.

Line of dance

It´s difficult. Dancers on the perimeter tend to follow the perimeter.
I don´t know what those on the inside lane are following. It´s not a
ronda. Tonight, I found two couples inside the center passing each
other IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. That´s a sign there isn´t a ronda in the
middle. What could cause this? Too much talking and not enough
dancing. In the states, couples tend to start immediately when the
music starts so that the traffic is moving. Here in BA, some people
have nowhere to go so they move around the obstruction. At times, the
inside looks like a bathtub that´s filled with water. Somebody pulls a
plug causing the tub to drain creating a whirlpool at the drain.
Instead of staying at the outside of the inside lane, I see couples
stay closer and closer to the center. Some couples jump to the outside
lane.  If they would spread out, there would be more room.

Teaching at milongas
During the talking period while a waltz started, an Argentine woman
decided to teach me the rhythm of waltz because she couldn´t do a
molinete. Other women at the Atlanta Tango Festival, New York
milongas, and other BA milongas didn´t seem to have problems
but she wanted to correct me. I knew walking off the floor would
reflect worse on me because I´m not a regular so I just took it though
I did tell her the rhythm is uno-dos-tres.

Time differential
BA is ONE hour ahead of Eastern Daylight Time. US (except for Arizona)
turned clocks forward. For some reason, BA turned its clocks back one
hour. BA use to be 3 hours ahead of US.

I´ll post if I left something out.

Have to go to sleep so I can make the 11AM walking tour that begins at
the Congress building.

Reporting from Buenos Aires

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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Re: [Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #2

[Michael]

I accept Buenos Aires style. I{ve read so many postings about what is
authentic. Who wants to admit that after years of lessons and
practice, (s)he isn{t dancing authentic. I wanted to come up with a
different term.

Michael

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Jack Dylan  wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> Thanks for the reports - very accurate from my experiences and
> very useful for first-time visitors to BsAs.
>
> But I don't agree with your term 'original style' because, as Trini has
> already pointed out, we don't really know what that is and it would
> result in a lot of disagreements.
>
> To me 'authentic Argentine Tango' is what predominates in the
> traditional milongas of modern-day Buenos Aires and you've already
> described that very well. You say you don't dance that style in the
> States so I'd be interested to know why you consider it to be 'authentic'.
>
> I now use the term 'Buenos Aires Style' to describe what I consider
> to be 'authentic Argentine Tango. I don't really see how anyone could
> disagree with that but I'm sure many will find a way :-).
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>> From: Michael 
>>
>> New term
>> Suggestion of new term for ´`authentic Argentine Tango´´ (I´m using a
>> keyboard that isn´t conventionally used in the states and it´s
>> difficult to find special keys.) Instead of ´¨authentic¨`, I suggest
>> `¨original.¨ The milonguero style (named by Susana Miller) is what I
>> call the original style. It´s NOT the style I dance in the States but
>> I consider what I dance to be authentic.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tango-L] ..1 1/2 yrs of watching YouTube

[Michael]

Mario:
I don´t agree. Whenver the man steps outside the follower´s right, it
usually signals a walk to the cross. The Argentines do it because they
pivot on the left and want to go forward on the same foot. The only
way to do that is a quick weight change to the right. The woman
doesn´t know if the man is on parallel or cross feet. She just feels
him to the side and she wants to get back in front of him.

Michael
Washington, DC
Vacationing in Buenos Aires

Mario wrote:
>
> ..This is what I’m seeing after 1 1/2 yrs of
> Watching YouTube

> 8. Walking, outside follow's right, usually signals a cross footed walk to 
> the cross. The cross then always follows a couple of steps later. When 
> walking on the outside right is in parallel footing, there usually is not a 
> walk to the cross but an extended outside walk or a few steps later a box or 
> giro. Only rarely do I see a cross follow in parallel feet. (=1 or 2 a month 
> after watching many videos daily.)
> The difference is that cross footed outside right is a signal to walk to
> the cross...while in parallel it can mean a giro soon or an extended rhythmic 
> walk.

> 12. When a leader walks outside follow's right in parallel, he usually does a 
> giro before ever reaching the cross. I have only seen the outside parallel go 
> all the way to the cross about once in a zillion (70?) dances.
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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #3

[Michael]

More observations:

Cabeceo
When not dancing, look ALIVE!! You are always being scouted by
potential partners dancers. Yes, it´s aggravating not to dance and the
wait is excruciating, because you don´t know how long it will be.
Dances don´t run on a timetable. Some women look like they are in a
catatonic state, waiting for Count Dracula or Prince charming to break
the spell.

Unless you have 2 noses or 3 ears, Argentines think you´re an
Argentine, unless you change your shoes at your table. For me, facing
30 women who are looking my direction (not at me) makes me feel my
back is to the wall and I´m facing a firing squad!! Ready, aim, dance.
If you dance simply and well, the women won´t know until they converse
in Spanish and I have to tell them ¨No soy Argentino.¨ Some will say
in English or Spanish ´Where are you from?´ or will ask ¿Are you from
Miami?  or ¿are you from New York? For some reason, they think those
are the only cities in the US. (I´m having a hell of a time with this
Spanish keyboard.)

Be prepared for the unexpected
For the last tango in a tanda, my partner decided on her own that we
were going to dance Cayeunge. (Don´t bother writing I misspelled it.)
she put her left check against my right and lowered my left arm. I´ve
seen this dance twice, never took any lessons, but survived the
challenge.

How much money to bring (everything in pesos)
Figure a milonga will be 20 (including an obligatory beverage). It´s
possible to go to two milongas in a day. I rented a house so my
breakfast bill is minimal from buying groceries. Lunch will be 30
pesos and dinner 40 pesos at Tenedor Libre (buffet), Multiply by the
number of days you´re in BA and divide by 3.6 to convert to US
dollars. Add on for souvenirs, lessons, shoes, etc. There is a NEW
Argentine departure tax of $29US. If you bought your ticket PRIOR to
April 1, the airline didn´t collect it and you´ll pay it at the
airport. After April 1, it should be included in your ticket. Check
with your airlines.

What NOT to wear (non milonga related)
Don´t dress like a tourist. Argentines don´t wear tango T shirts. To
thwart pick pockets, I wear my Israeli army jacked with has zippered
pockets. I don´t want to carry bags. My guide told me to take off my
gold watch. Somebody could bump into me and slide it off my hand.
Leave expensive jewelry (including watches) at home. The Argentines
don´t wear fancy clothes

Next time, I´ll write how to get around town. If you´re in a group,
you don´t have to worry about the language, riding the subway or bus
and using cabeceo. But then, you´ll miss some of the life and energy
of the city.

Tomorrow is laundry day and Gricel, which I haven´t been to yet. Today
I took a 6 hour walking tour of Plaza San Martin down to Plaza de
Mayo. (I bought the Living Earth(?) guide book. Tomorrow I plan a
walking tour of the Port or La Boca.

Reporting from Buenos Aires
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC

-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #4: Before you dance

[Michael]

Here are some travel tips:
1) Buy the Insight fleximap of BA. It´s laminated so it won´t rip like
paper from opening and closing.The website is www.insight.com

2) Buy a BA Guide Book. Mine is lonely planet.

3) Get a copy of BA Tango Guide. Write to abata...@yahoo.com and
you´ll get on the email list. It lists practicas, advertisements for
shows and lessons, and the milongas.

4) Arriving at BA´s airport
A) Go through immigration
B)  Collect your luggage and go through Customs. The Customs
declaration form asks for your cell phone serial and model numbers.
C) Currency Exchange
Use Banco de Nacional Argentina at the airport and not kiosks. There
is no commission charge at the bank. If possible, get all the pesos
you´ll need. You´ll have to wait in line if you decide to do it in
town. In fact waiting in line at the bank is the Argentine national
pastime, not futbol.

There are windows inside the security zone. If they´re closed, there
are doors outside the security zone. Have your passport ready.
(Remember to bring a copy of your passport and credit cards) so in
case they´re stolen you know the numbers.

D) At a newsstand, buy Guia ¨T¨de Bolsillo Capital Federal. It´s a map
of BA showing ALL the streets by barrio. It has more detail than the
insight map.

E)  Use Remise instead of Taxis to get into town. Remiss charge a flat
fare (about $100 pesos) whereas taxis charge by the meter. You pay the
rate PLUS tolls.

F) Buy some sunscreen if you come during the hot months. You can buy
it here as ¨dermaglos solar.¨¨
**

Public Transportation

A. The subway ¨el subtle¨ (subterra´neo)
is easy to use. You can get a farecard called monedero though I don´t
know where. My guide had an extra which she gave me. You can add
value, just like farecards in New York and Washington, DC.

B. Buses
The bus routes are difficult to read in the Guia. In New York, they
are called buses, in Mexico called autobus and in BA are called
colectivos. There are 700+ bus routes, all operated by private
companies. Each route (outbound and inbound) is described in detail in
the back of the guia. However, when you look at a barrio in the guia,
you don´t see bus routes on streets. Each barrio is divided into map
grids. When I took my walking tour of Retiro and Microcenter, I found
the grids for both the house and Retiro (tour starting point) and
looked to see which buses operated in both grids. I found that bus 150
was listed in both grids so I took the 150 from the house.

There is a fare zone system. Tell the driver your destination. He will
punch a button that will display your fare on the farebox. Enter coins
(exact change) only. The machine will give you a ticket. Hold onto the
ticket in case transit enforcement comes on the bus to check for
tickets.
Fares range from 1.2 to 1.75 pesos depending on distance.

Because the bus companies are privately owned, there are no transfers
which means you have to pay an additional fare if you change to
another bus.

Next dispatch, if anybody is there reading, will be about my horrible
night at Gricel. What a disaster! I couldn´t wait to pay my water bill
and leave. I´m never going back!

Reporting from Buenos Aires where it still feels like summer instead of fall
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #5

[Michael]

When my father taught me how to drive (I took driver´s education for
the 10% insurance discount), he taught me more than how to make the
car go and stop. He taught me NAVIGATION! I remember going to a
deserted shopping on an early Sunday morning to learn parking and
stopping distances.

Much the same happened when I learned tango, except it wasn´t from my
father nor in a shopping center. Joe always told me about small spaces
on the dance floor in BA and to be ready for anything. (In reflection,
that was an understatement.) My final exam to come here was a 2005
Denver Tango Festival. Could I maneuver through the MERC? I managed
quite well because everybody followed the line of dance. In fact,
there were 2 lines of dance; one around the perimeter and another one
inside that one. Both lanes moved independently but they MOVED and
there was room for everybody. It was a sight to behold!!

Down here, in the home of tango, it´s terrible. There´s a perimeter
and then there´s the inside, I call the VORTEX, where powerful forces
pull dancers all over the floor. People dance clockwise and diagonally
across the vortex.

The Argentines could find the line of dance if you gave them a map,
compass, radar, and GPS!!

I have a theory on the cause. I already wrote they love to talk when
the music begins. I timed how long it takes for the line to move. It
usually take a full MINUTE. Some begin to move at :15, :30, :45 and a
few need the whole minute. A musical selection lasts about 3 minutes
so 1/3 of the music is wasted on chatter.

In the States, Americans are off to the races when the music begins.
It´s rare you see a couple talking instead of dancing. And if the
dance was exquisite, the couple will silently embrace between the
musical selections. Couples don´t do that down here, but that´s
another dispatch.

Argentines don´t have a monopoly on poor navigation. It´s also in the
States, but I don´t think it´s as bad. Nevertheless, I think teachers
and milonga promoters should teach navigation instead of figures that
can´t be danced in small spaces. But of course, ´Moving with the
traffic' will never draw attention like "Colgadas-the missing
ingredient from your dance." Alan Forde of the Atlanta Tango Festival
said more than once "You´re not just dancing with your partner. You´re
dancing with everybody in the line of dance.¨"

Gricel has a rectangular floor. Tables face the front wall, seating 6.
The tables are so close to each other, you can have trouble moving
away from your table to dance. Your legs can get caught up in the
chairs legs. (Mine did.) Dancers in the vortex were going clockwise
and counter clockwise. Then tried to change direction at the end of
the floor. BUT there were people behind them so the end just got
jammed, like people getting on a bus but nobody wants to move to the
back.

Another problem is Argentine leaders can´t do spot turns to lead
molinetes.The man moves over to the next lane and the woman slams into
anybody who in the way. For me, I can´t tell is the man is going to
try to return to his spot in front of me.

I hope the Argentines drive better on one-way streets than they
navigate on the dance floor.

I´m probably finished for the night. I danced at Arranque and I want
to take a walking tour of Recoleta tomorrow. I´ll try to send a
milonga review before I leave. Just listing names of milongas really
doesn´t help anybody.

To paraphrase Garrison Keillor of A Prairie Home Companion

That´s the news from Buenos Aires
Where all the women dance in close embrace
All the men need navigation lessons
All the children speak Spanish

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC

-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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Re: [Tango-L] First trip to Buenos Aires

[Michael]

Charles:
When a woman says ¨muy bien¨or ¨bien¨ to me,  I must be doing
something right.  I don´t know why women would otherwise say
something. They aren´t obligated to say anything between the dances.
Of course, NOT every woman says that. If my dancing was terrible, I
don´t think the Argentines would dance with me and just ignore my
cabeceo.

Regardless of where you dance, there are compatible partners (music,
skill level, passion) and then there aren´t. If I wasn´t compatible
with ANY of the women, I´d have to evaluate my situation.

Michael


On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM,   wrote:
> re Michael's experience in Bs. As.:
>
> With all due respect, MIchael, I think this is another one of those reality
> checks.    This might be a good time to reevaluate your dancing skills.
> In fact, this is a perfect time while you are there.   Find some good
> teachers, take classes and try to fix things.    We learn from humbling
> experiences.   I hope you will do the same.
>
> Cheers,
> Charles
>
>
>
> **
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> easy steps!
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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #4: Before you dance

[Michael]

Edmundo:

Thank you for the comments. I went to Feria Matadores last weekend.
This weekend I went to San Telmo. I`ll write later about a beautiful
sign I bought in Spanish.

There are nieghborhood milongas where I´m staying in San Cristobal
within walking distance.
I´m going to post a review of each of them. The subway shuts down
around 11 and I don´t want to rely on a bus service or finding a cab.

Michael

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Edmundo  wrote:
> Michael
>
> Just a few travel tips based on my seven trips to Baires.  Every year, I
> lease an apartment on Corrientes street 3 blocks from the Obelisco during
> their winters:
> 1. Gricel is a neighborhood milonga with excellent dancing when it is not
> too crowded.  I am sorry you had a bad experience.  Maybe it was all a
> misunderstanding since you do not speak Spanish and do not know the culture
> since this is your first trip to Baires. Porteños are lively, articulate,
> and very nice when treated likewise.  Otherwise they do have a fiery temper.
>
> 3.  Have you tried some of the milongas in the suburbs that are more
> authentic, not too many tourists, such as: Glorias Argentinas, Boedo Tango,
> Sunderland, Sin Rumbo, La Baldosa, etc. etc.? Have you tried the FREE
> Glorieta dancing in the park at Belgrano on the weekends?
>> 5.  Your best bet for getting around the city is the Subte and then walk to
> your destination. Colectivos can be disorienting sometimes.
> 6.  Have you been to the delta at El Tigre and the outdoor fair in
> Mataderos?  Have you eaten a grilled Choripan in the street with a nice cold
> beer and shoot the bull with the local people?
>> 8.  Be careful when you go to the Boca/Caminito/Riachuelo fair on the
> weekends because it gets too crowded.  Instead try and walk the cobblestone
> streets in San Telmo when they have the street fairs on the weekends.
>
> Chau and best of everything.
>
> MUNDO in Texas

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Re: [Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #5‏

[Michael]

Sergio:
To clarify, I´ve seen Argentines collide with Argentines. Then the two
men get into an argument. At Gricel, the partner of one just looked
around the room with a look that said ¨Will somebody please rescue
me?¨ At Arranque, a man accused the other of leading the woman to do a
boleo which scuffed his pants. If I was the ONLY person having
collisions, I´ve have to sit down and evaluate. But when I see the
Argentines having problems, well, that puts a whole new light on the
matter.

Tonight, I went to lo de Celia. The floor actually has a line that
goes around the perimeter. I see couples moving from one side of the
line to the other. That´s not good navigation.

Michael

2009/4/18 Sergio Vandekier :
>
> It is interesting that I spent several months dancing in Buenos Aires, many 
> times at Gricel on Fridays and never noticed the navigation problems that 
> michael describes. We have been dancing at Gricel for years without any 
> problems, further more I do not think that people at Gricel dance differently 
> with respect to conversation before dancing or navigation than in other 
> milongas.
>
>
> I do not wish to blame Michael for his problems at Gricel at all, it is 
> possible that that particular night had several poor dancers on the floor at 
> the same time.
>
> Nito and  Elba teach there twice a week, it is possible that some of their 
> new students were dancing at that particular time. Nito teaches long figures 
> that a new dancer would not know how to fit in a crowded floor.
>
> I have noticed   instances of  people colliding, and then leaving the floor 
> asserting that "people do not know how to navigate" blaming the others for 
> their own shortcomings.
>
> As to talking in between tangos before to start dancing is part of being a 
> good milonguero, this has always been a very important part of the tango 
> culture.
>
> Before dancing you have to get the "feeling" of the music, you have to 
> develop the right mood and attitude towards that particular melody that just 
> started to play.
>
>  You never start dancing right away as the music begins.  You converse with 
> your partner while you wait to get the right feeling to make a good 
> interpretation of the music.  You normally wait for the couple in front of 
> you to start dancing and only then you start moving.
>
> The same way you do not come straight from the street and jump into the 
> dancing floor to start dancing, no way!
>
> You look around, greet your friends, sit at a table and sip some wine while 
> listening to the music, you patiently wait till you spirit is ready to start 
> dancing, till your feet literally want to start dancing, Only then you ask a 
> lady to dance and you start your journey on the dancing floor.
>
> Best wishes, Sergio
>
>
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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #6: Social customs

[Michael]

Several years ago, somebody wrote on the list that you shouldn´t take
photos or videos at milongas because some people don´t want to be seen
with partners they aren´t married to. I thought this was strange but
then the Argentine culture is different from the American culture.

An Argentine man, who was in the States for three years and spoke good
English (better than my Spanish) told me:
"I have a wife.
I have a lover.
I can´t take on any more women."

I don´t remember how it came up in conversation because I wouldn´t
think of asking. But based on his comment, the previous listing now
makes sense. I just wonder where the man´s wife and lover are while he
is dancing.

Couples who have a private relationship and want to keep it private,
enter the milonga separately and sit separately. They will not dance
two consecutive tandas, which is common in the States. They will dance
with other dancers before they return to each other.

Why? The Argentines have behavior codes. One of them is not to dance
with somebody else´s life partner. Men don´t use cabeceo with a woman
sitting at a table with another man. If the Argentines think that two
people are a couple, men won´t ask and women won´t accept an
invitation.

Cabeceo problem: Two men and a woman
It´s not first come, first served. If the woman isn´t standing when
you are in her  proximity, start wondering if she accepted your
invitation. If you see another man closing in, start wondering if you
came in second place. I´ve been told that men will go to the men´s
room if they came in second. But sometimes, the men´s room is in the
opposite direction.

Cabeceo problem: Two women and a man
I´ve seen both women run back to their tables in embarrassment,
sometimes letting out a shriek which only calls attention to the
miscommunication. The man has to be quick to go after the woman he
wanted to dance because it will look terrible for him. To ask one
woman to dance, get two, and dance with NONE, that´s embarrassing,
though regardless of size of ego, nobody seems to die from it.

I´ll be posting a review of the milongas Í´ve attended and I hope
others do the same. Dropping names of milongas, e.g. Canning,
Sunderland, Almagro really doesn´t help.

Back to line of dance

If I was the only foreigner who was involved in collisions, I wouldn´t
post to the list because it would advertise my poor dancing skills.
When I see Argentines have collisions, well, that´s a different story.

To clarify about my Gricel listing. I commented only on the difficulty
of getting out from my table and meeting the woman on the floor. The
host Thursday night was very pleasant and spoke English when I said
¨Soy Norteamericano. Espanol no esta prima idioma." (I´m a north
American. Spanish isn´t my primary language.)

I´ve gotten some private nasty messages, which I´ve decided to ignore.
(One message came from an American who lives in BA. She used to live
in the Bay Area in California, and has been banned from Tango L.). If
you want to say I´m wrong, then you should publicly post and offer
your personal experience instead of complaining about my dance skills.
I took weekly, private lessons for 8 years and have been dancing for
AT for about 11 years. I wouldn´t think of coming here unless I was
confident of my skills. Dancing at Denver and Atlanta Tango Festivals
was a test. Dancing at small dance floors in New York was a test. I´m
not somebody who has 2 years of experience before coming to BA.

But if you don´t believe me, COME HERE FOR YOURSELF!

Reporting from Buenos Aires
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #7: Milonga Review

[Michael]

My vacation is coming to an end. Instead of just dropping names of
milongas, I´m posting my review. Hopefully others will do the same.

I. Lo de Celia

The floor is square with a line that goes around the perimeter. The
table set up is  Men

Women
Women

 Men

Couples are usually put in the back row. Florescent lights are over
the dance floor. Colored lights are over the tables which causes dark
spots and can make cabeceo difficult.

Floor gets crowded quickly so standing in one place is not advised.
One night, an Argentine pushed another Argentine to shut up and start
dancing.

2. El Arranque
I haven´t figured out the seating arrangement. Women are on the sides
but then there are other women in the same column as men. You have to
look around. To paraphrase the safety exercise on airlines "Your
closest partner may be behind you." Excellent lighting for cabeceo.
Floor is sloped so ochos can be a problem going downhill because the
woman will pick up speed with each pivot. Floor is rectangular but
almost passes for being a square. There are raffle drawings for
champagne and CDs.

3. Milonga de los Consagrados @ central region leonesa (This is the
same location for Mi Refugio and Nino Bien

The floor is rectangular and the lighting is good. Tables are
perpendicular to the floor. I was there one night. It looks like the
tables alternate between men and women. The vortex is a struggle
because the floor gets jammed at the ends.

4. Gricel
I´ve already written about.

5. Miscellaneous
DJs seem to follow the 2-1-2-1 approach to music. 2 tandas of tango, 1
tanda waltz, 2 tandas tango, 1 tanda of milonga. In the States, the
pattern seems to be
4-1-4-1.

6.Milonga hopping
I don´t see any value to going to different milongas during a short
stay. When you keep returning to the same milongas, people will
recognize you after a while. If you keep going to a new milonga every
night, you´ll be a stranger every night. It´s completely different
when you go with a partner versus going alone.

7: Identity
Not a single Argentine woman I danced with thought I was an Argentine
until they said something in Spanish and I said I´m not Argentine.


Not related to tango
Bring a camera and walk throughout the city. There are free walking
tours (www.bafreetour.com) My friend, Gail from Florida, suggested I
buy a digital camera. I´m glad I finished.

Tomorrow is my last full day in the city. I fly home Wednesday,
leaving the house @4:30 PM for my 8:25 pm flight to Miami arriving
4:30 AM. After going through customs and immigration, my connecting
flight leaves at 8:40 for Washington, DC National Airport, arriving
11:05 AM. I should be home by 12:30 with my luggage and fond memories.

I didn´t come to BA to eat, but to dance.

I´ll post my summary tomorrow. I appreciate the public confirmation of
what I´m writing. I´m not making this stuff up.

And now a word about dancing. Two highly skilled dancers may not like
dancing with each other. While skill is a big part, so is passion and
musicality. Everybody has their own style. If somebody doesn´t like
dancing with me, it can be because of my skill level or they don´t
like my style. It´s the same about women. I melt with some women and
for others it´s a cold experience. Some women can dance milonga and
others have problems. I don´t what good it does to complain about
somebody´s dancing on the list. There will NEVER be universal
agreement on who is a good dancer.

I don´t remember writing anything negative about the dancing skill of
the women. My only complaint has been navigation.

Reporting from Buenos Aires
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC


I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #8: Last dispatch

[Michael]

Seems like yesterday I arrived at BA´s airport to begin my trip to the
origin of tango. I´ve gone to a milonga every day; one day going to
TWO milongas.

Soon I´ll be in the States where the milongas are NOTHING like the
traditional milongas here. The room will have less light than a
sunrise; the entrada will be $10 DOLLARS instead of $10 PESOS, and
there won´t be any cabeceo.

If you´re serious about tango, come here and experience it for
yourself. I recommend coming alone or in a very small group. You´re
not going to learn much riding around town in a bus, hopping on and
off to take photos. If you want to dance with the Argentines, don´t go
to tourist milongas. I´m not sure anything can prepare you for the
milonga culture. Leave complicated figures at home, especially high
boleos.

Daniel Trenner said at Tango Locura in Montreal years ago "When you
come to the milonga, be prepared to dance." I modify that to "When you
come to BA, know how to dance." You´ll adapt to the Argentine style.

Learn some Spanish to learn the culture. I bought a painted sign at
the San Telmo market last Sunday. The message is worth much more than
the $35 pesos ($9.50 US) I paid:

No Sueñes tu vida
Vive tus sueños

Don´t dream your life
Live your dreams

Reporting from Buenos Aires for the last time

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
I AM dancing Argentine Tango- - with the Argentines

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[Tango-L] Fw: Gricel

[Michael]

>I was at Gricel Thursday April 16. I'm surprised it took Deby one week to 
>respond if she was actually there April 16. I danced at Lo de Celia which 
>is also very crowded with navigation problems. At Gricel, I stayed on the 
>outside. Just about everytime I did a molinete, there was somebody 
>different behind me, which means that men were jumping in and out of the 
>line of dance.
>
> I never wrote there was a fight at Gricel. I said two Argentines ARGUED. 
> It didn't look good natured from the look of the partner of one of the 
> men. She look absolutely embarrassed.
>
> Wrong, Deby. I didn't come to your table and ask you to dance. I don't 
> know who went to your table, but it certainly wasn't me! I don't go to any 
> woman's table and ask her to dance. I exclusively used cabeceo my entire 
> stay.
>
> My ONLY comment about the Argentines was on their navigation skills and 
> nothing else.
>
> The Argentines thought I was Argentine until I told them I wasn't. They 
> spoke to me in Spanish and I told them in Spanish I was a NorthAmerican 
> and that Spanish
> isn't my primary language.
>
> I wasn't afraid to go out of my barrio. I didn't want to go outside. 
> Experience has proven that when the women see me at milongas in the 
> barrio, they are more likely to accept my invitation. I don't see any 
> reason to go to a lot of milongas and be a stranger at each one. At my 
> last milonga, El Arranque, I danced eight tandas, which is a  lot. I 
> danced two REPEAT tandas with two women. One of them waved to me when I 
> walked in to let me know she was there.
>
> Deby's attitude is similar to other people who didn't like my postings. 
> Instead of offering corrections, like Shakruh on a woman declining an 
> invitation, they just launch into ad hominen attacks in public and private 
> emails.
>
> And Deby, I didn't have any trouble connecting with the women who wanted 
> to connect with me. I've lost count because it doesn't matter. It's not a 
> competition.
>
> Michael
> I danced Argentine Tango- - with the Argentines
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Deby Novitz" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:19 PM
> Subject: [Tango-L] Gricel
> I was in Gricel the night Michael was there.  It was crowded.  This is a
> milonga well attended by locals and by regulars.  It is rare to see
> people who normally do not come to this milonga.  While some of us may
> not come every week, we know each other.
>
> There is navigation on this floor.  Perhaps at times it may not be the
> best but it is there.  This is Buenos Aires at its best.  A tightly
> packed floor of dancers with hardly any room to move.  There are several
> "lines of dance" and if you dance here regularly you know where to find
> them.  If you are new to Buenos Aires and our milongas, I am sure it
> would seem like chaos.  The center of the floor is for newbies.  The
> outside is for more experienced dancers, the rest dance in the middle.
> When the floor is very crowded it sometimes seems impossible, but
> somehow the dancers always seem to find their way.
> There were no fights at Gricel.  Sometimes men purposely bump into each 
> other
> and fake a disgruntled attitude,  They always smile and hug afterwards.
> Even when they do bump into each other and there are "some faces" and
> maybe an exchange of words there is never a "fight".
> For the record, Michael actually came to my table and asked me to
> dance.  So much for his recognizing me and doing the cabaceo.  He was
> shocked when I turned him down. I don't accept dances at the
> table from strangers.  From my friends who know I want to dance with
> them yes.
>  The one thing you do not have is that you do not  understand the music, 
> the soul of tango.  North Americans, generally
> speaking are so concentrated on being the best technically they dance 
> without soul.
>
> Perhaps if Michael had come to Gricel and tried to enjoy himself instead
> of judging us on his North American values, he would have had a better 
> time. 

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Re: [Tango-L] Head Tilt

[Michael]

I think the correct question is "Why is there is a need to tilt the head?" 
Tilting the head is probably a compensation. I remember when I'd reach for the 
woman's cheek, pulling my head ahead of my chest. My teacher told me not to 
reach. It's the woman's decision if she wants to make cheek contact. In other 
situations, tilting of the head is a compensation for difference in height of 
the dancers. My BA guide reinforced the importance of seeking women my height. 

The focus has to always be on the partner. Yes, I saw Argentines looking at me 
dance, especially since I was a stranger. I couldn't let that impact my dancing.

I suggest Alexander Technique which will improve your posture and head 
position. 

Michael
I dance Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines


- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Dylan" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Head Tilt



> From: "larry...@juno.com" 
> 
> All of this is leading up to this question: How do we learn not to tilt 
> our heads? And: Do we need to look down? If so: When? And if not, 
> How do we learn not to?
> 

Susana Miller teaches very strongly that the man should look 
straight ahead with no looking down, or even glancing down.

The problem I have is that I start to feel very self-concious seeing 
all the faces in the crowd who are sitting out the tanda. And, yes, 
I know they're not looking at me but I still feel more comfortable 
glancing down even though I now know it's better to look straight 
ahead.

Jack


  

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Re: [Tango-L] Argentines vs. non-Argentines‏

[Michael]

I think we're comparing apples and oranges. Tango is danced DIFFERENTLY in 
North America than in Argentina. In Argentina, the emphasis is on the embrace. 
In North America, I see open position so the embrace is not as important. In 
North America, the emphasis is on figures. Read the workshop announcements on 
Tango A. When is the last time you read about a workshop about better 
connection with your partner or feeling the music more?

There were a few times I danced North American style in BA. I'd lead a figure 
that opened the embrace and confused the woman. After a few times, I realized 
that was an error. In BA, no figure is worth executing if it opens the embrace. 
Argentine women are NOT impressed with figures, just who makes them feel the 
best on the dance floor.

Unfortunately, this discussion implies there are only two choices in dancing. 
All technique and no feeling vs. no technique and all feeling. Because of 
crowded dance floors in BA, feeling takes on more importance than technique. 

I was told about this before I went to BA. But you have to see it to believe 
it. 

Michael
I dance Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Sergio Vandekier" 
Subject: [Tango-L] Argentines vs. non-Argentines‏
 
 I have asked Argentine ladies that I consider to be excellent tango dancers 
their opinion on this matter. Who dance better Argentine men or foreign men?
 
They replied that foreign men seem to have a lot of technique but that 
Argentine men have better musicality and feeling for the music. They also told 
me that Argentine men have a better embrace.
 
 When I asked what do you mean by "a lot of technique" they explained that it 
seems that foreign men have had lots of schooling and seem to know a lot of 
steps and figures.
Best regards, Sergio
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Re: [Tango-L] Off the Beat

[Michael]

Brujo:
Put on Pugliese's "La Yumba" and watch him walk alone to the music. If he is 
still off beat, that means he is NOT focusing on the music, but on steps. 
Stand next to him, put your arm over his shoulder, and walk him to the music 
showing him where the beat is. If he can find the beat during the exercise 
but NOT when he dances, his focus is lost. He is concentrating on figures 
and not the music. You need to tell him if he can't figure it out from the 
exercise.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines
- Original Message - 
From: 
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:44 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Off the Beat


I have a student who is consistently off the beat with his steps and 
figures. What is the best way to diplomatically correct this problem? Any of 
you instructors out there -- how do you fix this?
>
>
>
> Thanks ->
> Brujo 

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Re: [Tango-L] Hubris and tango

[Michael]

I find it just as amazing that a narrow minded individual feels the need to 
attack somebody who has DIFFERENT opinions and experiences.  In his rush to 
condemn, he missed the first line of my first posting that it was based on 
my personal experience not universal truth. I never claimed to be an expert 
YET he claims to be an expert from his attacks. This is the reason Tango L 
will never reach its potential to serve the tango community. When people 
agree with you, you are their friend. And when they don't agree with you, 
they just lash out.

Wasted trip? Not in the least. I had a wonderful time at all the milongas, 
except for Gricel. In fact, one blogger included some of my dispatches in 
their blog and somebody else is going to include all my dispatches in a "BA 
guide for first time visitors." So some people found my information useful.

Since tango is danced from the heart, I don't see how somebody can dance 
well when they always angry. I don't understand how a partner can connect 
with somebody who has an angry heart.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: 
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:55 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Hubris and tango


>I find it amazing that someone would go to Argentina with such a culturally 
> > arrogant attitude that instead of using the experience to put their own
> dancing in perspective or try to learn something about the dance, its 
> history, > its social milieu, they denigrate or criticize the state of 
> dancing there
> because it is not what they do or because they had a bad experience...all 
> to > justify their own lack of skill, especially in light of how few 
> milongas they
> actually attended and the short time they were there.   And the worst is > 
> that within hours upon returning, they start posting their now "expert"
> opinions.
>
> What a wasted trip!
>
> Charles 

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Re: [Tango-L] Milonga music mix

[Michael]

As a foreigner, how would I know that up to 30% non-tango music would be 
played? I have a copy of  April's "La Portena Tango" which has stories and 
ads for milongas. None of the ads list percentages, just days, hours and 
sometimes a contact's name and phone number.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga music mix


> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Vince Bagusauskas  
> wrote:
There are dances called 'bailes' where less than 70% of the music is tango 
(milonga and vals). A 'milonga' will play no more than  30% of these other 
rhythms (to which tango is not danced).
>>

>> Which begs the question, if foreigners are to be true to the culture of 
>> the portenos and Argentine tango should there be an expectation that up 
>> to 30%
>> non-tango music be played at milongas?
> Ron

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[Tango-L] Line of Dance in BA

[Michael]

I read somebody's blog about explaining the rules at a milonga. Here's the 
link. When is the last time you went to a milonga where somebody explained the 
"traffic rules?" The blog pointed out that violaters are given yellow penalty 
cards (like in soccer) and if you get 3, you're out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7n0cE_3iUo&feature=related


The blog reads "Hector Pellosa runs the Saturday milonga Cachirulo in Plaza 
Bohemia at Maipu 444." I didn't make this millonga during my trip to BA. There 
are 1600 weekly milongas. I can't make all of them.


Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines
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Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance in BA

[Michael]

We don't know if Hector gave instructions in Spanish BEFORE the filming 
began. He gave the microphone to the other man who knows English and French 
and that's when the filming began.

In other news, those who haven't been to Argentina will see that at this 
traditional milonga the unaccompanied women sit on one side and the 
unaccompanied men sit on the other to facilitate cabeceo.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines
- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Dylan" 
To: "Michael" ; "Tango L" 
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance in BA


>
> But the instructions were given in English, French and Chinese [I think]; 
>  > nothing in Spanish. What does that tell you? Sounds to me like they're 
> trying to educate the tourists.
>
> Jack
> - Original Message 
>>
>> I read somebody's blog about explaining the rules at a milonga. Here's 
>> the link. >> When is the last time you went to a milonga where somebody 
>> explained the
>> "traffic rules?" The blog pointed out that violaters are given yellow 
>> penalty >> cards (like in soccer) and if you get 3, you're out. >> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7n0cE_3iUo&feature=related
>>
>
>
>
>
> 

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[Tango-L] Fw: Line of Dance in BA

[Michael]

We don't know if Hector gave instructions in Spanish BEFORE the filming 
began. He gave the microphone to the other man who knows English and French
 and that's when the filming began.
>
In other news, those who haven't been to Argentina will see that at this 
traditional milonga the unaccompanied women sit on one side and the
 unaccompanied men sit on the other to facilitate cabeceo.
>
> Michael
> I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jack Dylan" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance in BA

But the instructions were given in English, French and Chinese [I think]; 
nothing in Spanish. What does that tell you? Sounds to me like they're
 trying to educate the tourists.

 Jack
 - Original Message 
I read somebody's blog about explaining the rules at a milonga. Here's the 
link. When is the last time you went to a milonga where somebody
>>> explained the "traffic rules?" The blog pointed out that violaters are 
>>> given yellow penalty cards (like in soccer) and if you get 3, you're 
>>> out. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7n0cE_3iUo&feature=related 

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[Tango-L] How many figures do you need?

[Michael]

I enjoyed my vacation in BA even though some tried to tell me what to do. I 
observed that the Argentines use the following figures:

Back ocho
Low Boleo
Walking
Ocho Cortado
Giros (called molinetes north of the equator)

I've read messages on Tango A about workshops and festivals for colgaldas, 
valcadas, sacadas and other figures ending in "adas." It made me wonder how 
many figures do I need for a good dance.

What figures are missing from the above list you feel are necessary?

How frequently are you able to incorporate what you learned from festivals and 
workshops into your dance?

It's a slow Saturday night and I'm writing as I listen to Garrison Keillor's 
monologue. Unfortunately, there's no AT in Lake Wobegone, MN,.

Michael
Washington, DC
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines
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[Tango-L] How many figures do you need? / no AT in Lake Wobegone, MN

[michael]

>
>
> How frequently are you able to incorporate what you learned from festivals
> and workshops into your dance?
>
> It's a slow Saturday night and I'm writing as I listen to Garrison
> Keillor's monologue. Unfortunately, there's no AT in Lake Wobegone, MN,.
>
> Michael
> Washington, DC


Just down the road in Hopkins, MN we had our monthly Tango Society of
Minnesota milonga last Saturday night, with great music by DJ Christopher
Everett. Stop in next month.

Michael,
Minneaplois, MN
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Re: [Tango-L] 1000 sacadas? More like 48. Was - how many figures

[Michael]

To me there are only TWO sacadas: front and back. These messages remind me 
of a traffic circle. There's only ONE traffic circle at Columbus Circle in 
New York. You can enter it from 8th Avenue and Broadway northbound, 59th 
Street westbound,  and exit on Broadway soutbound and northbound. Regardless 
of where you enter and exit, there's only ONE traffic circle.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] 1000 sacadas? More like 48. Was - how many figures


> Sure there's 1000 sacadas. Maybe 1.
>
> There's that one at the sixth bar of Bahia Blanca, and the one  just
> after the chorus in La Jumba, and there's that one late at night with
> De Caro with that woman I don't know the name of, and the little tiny
> one that snuck into the middle of Corazon de Oro when there was
> hardly room to move.
>
> And that's just a start. There's probably millions!
>
> GB
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Re: [Tango-L] Lots of questions

[Michael]

A lot of good questions. I don't know that I have a lot of good answers. I'm 
not going to respond question question.

When I took yoga, I learned that every person has a mind, body, and soul. 
Sometimes they are in sync with each other and sometimes they aren't.

When I started learning tango, I used mostly my mind and it looked like 
others did the same. We tried to mimic the instructor. When I moved onto 
private lessons, I was better able to focus and understand. My teacher, Joe, 
said "It's not the WHAT that is important, but the HOW." Many times I'd 
analyze what I was doing. After a long while, I developed technique and 
didn't have to think so much of execution.. But then, the body took over and 
I focused on how something felt. I could feel that a figure didn't work 
because somebody was in the wrong place or on the wrong foot. I had to use 
the brain to figure out what went wrong. Instead of knowing when something 
was wrong, I moved on to feeling when something was wrong. My body told me 
about quality of movement, e.g. did I complete my pivots? My body told me 
how the woman was following though not if I was misleading or the woman not 
following.

I'm not sure anybody can be taught connection. However, people can be taught 
to relax, which is the key to connection. I went to yoga for 3 years where 
the yoga therapist squeezed the tension out of me like toothpaste out of the 
tube. I didn't realize how stiff I was and that I was gripping the woman, 
not embracing her.
To me, connection is like batteries in a flashlight. Either there is 
connection and the light comes on because the batteries are facing the 
correct direction or the light doesn't come on because a battery is facing 
the wrong direction.

How do you know when you have good connection? HMMM. That's like asking 
"when do you know you're in love?" Only the body and soul can answer that 
question. I have the best connection when my partner is relaxed with a firm, 
but soft frame. There's no pulling or pushing. We move to the music without 
rushing. When I lead a stepover, I feel when she's finished her pivot with 
or without an adornment. On rare occasions, I've felt my heartbeat or her 
heartbeat.

Questions about learning apply to the mind. I'm not sure how to train the 
body for connection. Connection to music? All I can suggest is to put on 
music and walk in the privacy of your house, thinking only of your 
movements. Your body will let you know if you're in sync with the music.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines 

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Re: [Tango-L] How many figures do you need?

[Michael]

Roger:
Congratulations!! You are absolutely correct. It took me a long time to 
learn this important lesson from the book "Men are from Mars. Women are from 
Buenos Aires.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "roger" 
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] How many figures do you need?


>I have just read all the emails on 'How many figures do you need?' .  The 
>response seem to reflect the remarks made about making love. The males seem
> all obsessed on "How many" and female response is one of "It's not how 
> many,  but what you do with them." (Replace "many" with "big" and you see 
> my
> point). It seems to get back to the fact that males think of performance,
> females of connection.
>
> I have been doing following classes for a while and really understand the 
> female point of view. If I make that connection, even it is walking, it is
> more enjoyable than any number of "fancy steps" where we aren't connected.
>
> Roger Spence
>
> Tango Adelaide
> 
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Re: [Tango-L] How many figures do you need?

[Michael]

Mario:
Congratulations. You got it. Look at the faces of the dancers. Who thinks 
too much and who feels the dance? Which leaders shove women through figures 
and who lets them move on their own? Which followers use their right arm to 
pull and push themselves through ochos?

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario" 
Subject: [Tango-L] How many figures do you need?


It seems like the alternative to lots of variety in steps is to either do 
few steps better and/or do the walk with more variety. For the close embrace 
enthusiast who doesn't want to break the embrace in order to do a figure, 
there is the search for a more profound connection throughout the figures 
the pauses and then there is the walk. The walk is THE place where variety 
can lead to more mutual enjoyment in the dance.


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[Tango-L] Beautiful quote

[Michael]

I found this quote on the Simbatango blog:

  –When a man walks nicely, the woman dies in his embrace.

  –When a man walks badly, the woman wants to die.

HT: yy

from ? Dancing for the woman, Walk

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines
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Re: [Tango-L] Dark milongas prevent Cabeceo

[Michael]

Ta:
The issue is more than just lighting. Very few people use cabeceo.Some 
people look comatose while they wait for a dance. They don't look around the 
room for a partner, they just stare into the dance floor.

It's just like ballroom. Women just wait to be asked. Never mind that it 
would help to show some interest that they want to dance.  Some look 
absolutely amazed when they are asked.

With cabeceo, it's 50-50. It's not entirely the man's responsibility to ask. 
The woman has an active role. It seems that women feel their role is to 
wait-- and wait-- until a tango knight rescues them.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Tango Mail" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Dark milongas prevent Cabeceo (was Invitation and 
refusal)


Why do you feel it necessary to keep the room so dark?

 I've gone as far as deciding not to attend any more milongas or festivals 
that have in the past been kept too dark for cabeceo.  One of these is the 
Baltimore tango
> fest.  I won't return until  assured that the lighting has been taken care 
> of.  The "barn" was so  dark last year that you could  have fornicated in 
> the corner without much notice or attention.  I  wasn't even able to make 
> a cabeceo work from 10-feet away, so I left after one or two tandas of 
> dancing and lots of sitting.
>
 Ta.

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[Tango-L] Washington Post Article on Argentine inflation

[Michael]

Washington Post article 
Doctored Data Cast Doubt on Argentina
Economists Dispute Inflation Numbers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/15/AR2009081502758.html?hpid=artslot&sub=AR


Michael Ditkoff
I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines
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Re: [Tango-L] La Viruta (WAS Tango Styles II)

[Michael]

Shahrukh:
Not that I want to turn this into a competition, but on my trip to BA, 
Gricel was the worst. Navigation??? There should have been a lighthouse and 
buoys on the floor to mark the channel with a foghorn for emphasis. On top 
of the navigation problems, the tables were so close to each other, it was 
difficult to get out from your table and go to the dance floor.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Shahrukh Merchant" 
Subject: [Tango-L] La Viruta (WAS Tango Styles II)
>
> La Viruta??!!! Surely you jest. If you want to dispel the myth that 
> Argentines have this magic "Tango navigation gene" as some (not recent) 
> posts have suggested, La Viruta is the place to do it: the worst  possible 
> navigators on the planet.
>
> Shahrukh
> 
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Re: [Tango-L] Can't we all get along /Was TANGO 2000 ...For DUMMIES

[Michael]

I agree with Trini. A Washington organizer was hounded to play more 
alternative music at milongas. But he's a traditionalist and resisted. It 
got so bad he sent a message asking for responses on a separate alternative 
milonga or just playing more alternative at the regularly scheduled milonga. 
The result is a separate alternative milonga. This should make everybody 
happy. The traditionalists (like myself) don't have to listen to foxtrot 
(which I dance, but not at a milonga) and others don't have to listen to 
traditional. The alternative isn't going to be 100% but more than my comfort 
level.

Everybody wins. I don't see a problem.

Michael
Washington, DC
I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" 
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] TANGO 2000 For DUMMIES


--- On Sun, 10/18/09, Ecsedy Áron  wrote:

 - nevertheless I do NOT believe that separation of milongas could be an 
answer to anything (except the possible annihilation of a style you are 
protecting), as for practicas, they are not more than a class without a
> teacher, so they immediately imply a certain closed subgroup of dancers.

It's called niche marketing and works successfully in the real world. 
Catering to peoples specific needs.  It's recognizing that people have 
different needs and desires.  We can all agree with that premise, correct?


Trini de Pittsburgh







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[Tango-L] No place left to dance

[michael]

I felt very dejected last year at a small festival that had been my
favorite, (I still appreciate all the extraordinary effort that the
organizer puts into it)



My problem: I had to spend too much time and effort just keeping my
followers safe from some errant leaders apparently seeking attention.



I remember cutting one evening short because I just became too irritated
after having to present my back to two men who were speeding AGAINST the
line of dance, just to protect my partner.



I still treasure the shirt “Real Men Dance Close” that  I picked up the
first time I attended the festival; it just did not seem to fit anymore.



Michael



Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: RonTango 
Subject: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Message-ID: <287167.98621...@web111810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

- Original Message 
> From: Larry Richelli 
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 12:19:50 PM

> >Traditional
> tango dancers do not mind to have separated milongas, as most of them
> consider that Nuevo dancers disrupt their >dancing.
>

… It's beginning to look like there may no longer be any festivals in the US
where a tango milonguero dancer can find solitude away from the nuevo
invasion. It looks like we will have no other option than to go to Buenos
Aires to find milongas with a supportive social dancing atmosphere. That
wouldn't be bad if it weren't so far away.

Ron
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Re: [Tango-L] Google translator

[Michael]

You can try babelfish at http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

You can type the french web site in without copying and pasting the text. On
the babelfish page, select French to English.

Michael

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:37 PM, John H. Walton  wrote:

> I suspect the problem was that the text copied into Google was in a
> different character code-set to that expected by Google - i.e. the page
> ended up with mixed and confusing code-sets (probably a combination of
> single and multiple-bytes codes).
>
> Best Regards, John
> http://www.danceweb.co.uk
>
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Re: [Tango-L] Changes by Immigration Authorities with respect to the granting of P & O Visas

[Michael]

I wrote to a friend at USCIS to get a explanation for the rule change. Below
is the answer:

"But it should not affect teachers as they are not supposed to be using that
visa category anyway. The O and P visa for artists is only for performance
and support of performers, not the kind of instruction he seems to be
referring to."

It seems the rule applies to tango shows, not teaching at
festivals. Regardless of the rule, foreigners who work in the US still need
a I-765 work permit. I remember one festival reporting that their star
teacher wasn't admitted into the country and sent packing on the next
available flight.

If Immigration catches a tango instructor without a work permit, they can be
deported immediately.
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
I'd danced Argentine Tango- - with the Argentines
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:59 AM, chicagomilonguero <
chicagomilongu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> As of October 7th, visa petitions may not be filed by a single employer on
> behalf of multiple arts organizations for artists coming to the U.S. for an
> itinerary of events, unless the petitioning employer is in the business of
> being an an agent.
>
> I believe a number of tango instructors have had difficulties in obtaining
> their work visas under this new policies.   A number of organizations that
> deal with the arts and dance are trying to challenge the change in this
> policy.  It is also not clear what will suffice the "agent" definition.
>
>
> Ray Barbosa
> ___
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tango-L] Men's dance shoes (but not sneakers)

[Michael]

Carol:
I use Bloch Jazz Shoes. I don't know what he doesn't like about the look. 
They are the lightest shoes I've danced in. I had to give up regular dance 
shoes because I was kicking women with the hard heel when I wrapped my foot 
around their foot. Now I don't have that problem but still kept the Jazz 
shoes.

Since most milongas are just about pitch black, nobody is going to look at 
his shoes anyway.

Michael
I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: "Carol Shepherd" 
Subject: [Tango-L] Men's dance shoes (but not sneakers)


> What shoes do you dancing men recommend?  Should he or should he not get 
> some
> kind of Cuban heel?  Are there any styles that you would recommend that 
> don't
> look like jazz practice shoes (he doesn't want that look).> -- 
>
> Carol Ruth Shepherd, Attorney
> Arborlaw PLC 

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Re: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or Hinderance

[Michael]

Bob:
Dancing Argentine Tango greatly improved my ballroom. Because of close 
embrace, there's no room for error. If I can't lead the woman to step first, 
there's going to be a collision. In ballroom, the man is off center from the 
woman. He can move his left foot forward without fear of stepping on the 
woman's foot. However, it's a terrible lead for the man to move before the 
woman.

Ballroom has prescribed steps and rhythms. Argentine doesn't have prescribed 
steps and rhythms and forces the man to pay more attention to the woman, 
e.g. knowing which foot she is standing. In ballroom, couples are on 
parallel feet virtually all the time so there's less need for the man to 
know which foot the woman is standing.


Michael
I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines

- Original Message - 
From: 
Subject: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or Hinderance


> Does
> Argentine tango help one dance better ballroom? Does ballroom dancing 
> help one dance better A. tango? In other words, is there a cross-training 
> benefit or does one genre interfere with learning the > other?
>
> Let me be more specific. Smooth (or traveling) ballroom dances, such as 
> waltz, foxtrot, quickstep, and ballroom tango, share things in common 
> with A. tango, but there are profound differences as well. Is there a  net 
> gain or a net loss in knowing one style of dance when trying to learn the 
> other.
>
> Bob

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